Christian Spanking, Domination

[mymistake]

It's not quite that simple. Spanking is a special type of hitting. Spanking is done with a limited number of weapons (open hand, belt, wooden spoon, paddle, switch) and to a very limited target, the butt (edit: or legs - I got it in the legs a lot as a kid). Hitting that is not spanking covers the complete range of abuse. So yes spanking is bad but spanking also has boundaries. If you want to call spanking a form of child abuse go ahead. But spanking is not wide open. If someone was using a closed fist, a bat, a 2x4, a metal tool then they were not spanking because those fall outside of what is culturally understood for spanking. It they struck the head, mouth, stomach, chest, or neck then they were not spanking.

 

Spanking is still hitting.

 

Yes, it is a subset of hitting. Like I said.

 

It doesn't matter that it's a more narrowed definition where it isn't a total free-for-all.

 

Oh it does matter. If your car is hit by another vehicle it does matter if that other vehicle was a Preus or an 18 wheeler. Did you get T-boned or did you just scrape paint? Was that other vehicle moving at 15mph or 75mph? It's that force, mass, speed squared formula. The same principles apply to a parent beating a child.

 

It's still hitting. The point was that people like to say spanking isn't hitting at all, like it's it's own special category, but it is hitting no matter how one might wish to sugarcoat it.

 

Nothing I said sugarcoated it. If a Bob were to give his toddler an open-palmed swat on the behind and Bill were to pull out a tire iron and smack his toddler across the forehead then they would not deserve the same punishment. I think this distinction is very important.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I can't see spanking as anything BUT a sexual act.

 

I'm not a fan of spanking either, but this I have to disagree with. I know you went on to say that most don't mean it that way, but to suggest that it's sexual anyway is a bit off-kilter. I was spanked a lot as a child (both for things I did and things that my jump-to-conclusions father just assumed I did), and it was never sexual. I used to spank our children a little bit a long time ago (never anywhere near as severely as I was spanked), and there was never anything sexual about it.

 

That's not to say that there couldn't be some perverts who do have a morbid sense of sexual motivation for spanking. And again, I am certainly not advocating spanking. I'm just saying that you shouldn't read something extra into it that really isn't there.

[Mudhoney]

I can't see spanking as anything BUT a sexual act.

 

I'm not a fan of spanking either, but this I have to disagree with. I know you went on to say that most don't mean it that way, but to suggest that it's sexual anyway is a bit off-kilter. I was spanked a lot as a child (both for things I did and things that my jump-to-conclusions father just assumed I did), and it was never sexual. I used to spank our children a little bit a long time ago (never anywhere near as severely as I was spanked), and there was never anything sexual about it.

 

That's not to say that there couldn't be some perverts who do have a morbid sense of sexual motivation for spanking. And again, I am certainly not advocating spanking. I'm just saying that you shouldn't read something extra into it that really isn't there.

 

I would have to say that it is sexual. Not that people are intentionally trying to sexually abuse their children, but if that child is being turned on by something you are doing to them against their will than it is sexually abusive. Three people on this thread have disclosed that they were turned on when spanked. There has to be a reason for this. Spanking is hitting the buttocks, which are a private area (you can't walk around in public with your butt showing). If you do an internet search for "spank" you'll pull up adult erotic websites. You won't hear many people coming forward saying spanking turned them on as children because they're embarrassed by it. I do, however, believe the folks on this thread who said that spanking didn't harm them. It doesn't harm every child. It did harm me and it took a long time to get past it. If there is any chance of all of turning on little kids then I think spanking should be done away with. The APA even discourages it and says that it is no more effective (and worse in my estimation) than other forms of punishment. I'm not understanding why punishing children is so important anyway. Sure, teach children right from wrong and lead by example, but I don't understand why everyone is so quick to punish. Many people expect way too much of little kids who are not capable of behaving the way they're expected to by a certain age. People should really try to chill out and stop expecting kids to not touch this or that and be quiet, blah, blah, blah. Back to the sexual aspect of spanking: in a class I took recently a law enforcement officer told the class that whenever a large cache of child porn is discovered there is almost always either audiotape or videotape of children being spanked. This is disgusting! It boggles the mind and I don't understand how sick people are. There is a sexual aspect to spanking, plain and simple.

[badpuppy]

I can't see spanking as anything BUT a sexual act.

 

I'm not a fan of spanking either, but this I have to disagree with. I know you went on to say that most don't mean it that way, but to suggest that it's sexual anyway is a bit off-kilter. I was spanked a lot as a child (both for things I did and things that my jump-to-conclusions father just assumed I did), and it was never sexual. I used to spank our children a little bit a long time ago (never anywhere near as severely as I was spanked), and there was never anything sexual about it.

 

That's not to say that there couldn't be some perverts who do have a morbid sense of sexual motivation for spanking. And again, I am certainly not advocating spanking. I'm just saying that you shouldn't read something extra into it that really isn't there.

 

It's not just my opinion, it's a well-researched issue: http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm (I posted that link earlier. Perhaps you didn't see it or didn't read it.)

 

I'm not saying it's sexual abuse because "all spankers are perverts and see it sexually", I'm saying it's sexual aggression against a child whether the aggressor interprets it that way or means it that way or not. (As the above linked article explains and details.)

 

Also, just because *you* didn't experience being spanked as a child in any sexual way (i.e. it didn't turn you on as a kid), and just because it didn't screw with *your* psychosexual development, does NOT mean it does not occur with a significant percentage of human beings who have been spanked as children. It occurred with me. I'm sure being spanked as a child isn't the "only" reason I'm a masochist, but... I do feel it played some role.

 

If any percentage of children can respond this way, then I consider it not worth the risk. And yes, I still think it's sexual abuse. Would I personally class my parents and grandparents as sexual abusers? No, because they didn't REALIZE what they were doing. They weren't predators. But they were still doing something that corrupted/interrupted/screwed up my psychosexual development in a way that might not have happened had they not done that.

 

Having said that, I'm not ashamed of my kink. I embrace it. But it still exists in part because I was spanked as a child. I truly believe that. Your mileage may have varied, but you cannot define the experience of others.

 

To me this is a serious issue and the serious part of it isn't necessarily that it's a type of "hitting" (that's bad enough.) it's that it's sexual touching. Just because most adults in this country can't seem to grasp that doesn't change the facts.

[LivingLife]

I was royally whipped as a youngster b/c I was so strong willed. My dad often went overkill and lost his rag. I got over it. I endured corpereal punishment at school and it did me no harm.

... that was my situation too! The cane and strap were widely used at school. My dad too would lose his rag. His favorite was a leather dog collar strap whipped around the legs ... I remember even one time a branch off a tree! Like you Livinglife I got over it. The funny thing is I found the mental abuse they inflicted with hell fear FAR worse than any physical punishment! It had a far greater effect on my life than the beatings.

I never really had trauma in either regard. What is obvious is that the xian system affects people's rationality.

 

I swore I would never do what my dad did and to an extent I kept that oath. However when I did give my kids the belt, my wife's looks soon put paid to what I was doing was still overkill in her eyes.

 

There is no handbook to parenting and we tend to do what our folks did. I hated my dad for what he did till I understood what his dad had done to him as a kid. The church suggests the psychological approach is of the devil and we should not spare the rod.

 

The whole concept enforces the angry god aspect and the natural way is to spoil the child in a good sense. They are ess innocent and take their cues from their parents. trying to mould a kids will to our own is merely a coping mechanism for ourselves and does nothing for the kid's self esteem. I saw this as a kid where friends loved their fathers but I was fearful of mine and hated him to an extent.

 

Whatever they thought they were doing right actually set me on a path of trying to find sense in this madness which brought me where I am today. As a kid, the punishment usually did not fit the crime and what I experienced was wrath w/o explanation for why I was being punished.

 

I was fearful of showing my parents my reports from school as that ended up in a beating. Turned out later at age 15, I had an over active thyroid and that was what was hindering me at school. On medication I became less aggressive and my grades improved. My dad never apologised for the beatings and never understood the shame I had to endure in gym classes where my peers saw the welts on my back.

 

At least with my kids this was only to the butt and no more than two whacks.

 

The shame and embarrassment did affect my self confidence and that led to a host of other issues. In time I got over that and did not need counselling. The issues were small but at the time were huge. I guess I was lucky to be able to move on. Plus at 16 I was already 6' tall and my dad 5'6'' and could give him a run for his money so to speak.

 

If we had all the answers instead of opinions, it would be so much easier. Strange god never bothered to actually address this in the bible. Oh he did, stoning was the solution - my bad....

[mymistake]

I can't see spanking as anything BUT a sexual act.

 

I'm not a fan of spanking either, but this I have to disagree with. I know you went on to say that most don't mean it that way, but to suggest that it's sexual anyway is a bit off-kilter. I was spanked a lot as a child (both for things I did and things that my jump-to-conclusions father just assumed I did), and it was never sexual. I used to spank our children a little bit a long time ago (never anywhere near as severely as I was spanked), and there was never anything sexual about it.

 

That's not to say that there couldn't be some perverts who do have a morbid sense of sexual motivation for spanking. And again, I am certainly not advocating spanking. I'm just saying that you shouldn't read something extra into it that really isn't there.

 

I would have to say that it is sexual. Not that people are intentionally trying to sexually abuse their children, but if that child is being turned on by something you are doing to them against their will than it is sexually abusive. Three people on this thread have disclosed that they were turned on when spanked. There has to be a reason for this. Spanking is hitting the buttocks, which are a private area (you can't walk around in public with your butt showing). If you do an internet search for "spank" you'll pull up adult erotic websites. You won't hear many people coming forward saying spanking turned them on as children because they're embarrassed by it. I do, however, believe the folks on this thread who said that spanking didn't harm them. It doesn't harm every child. It did harm me and it took a long time to get past it. If there is any chance of all of turning on little kids then I think spanking should be done away with. The APA even discourages it and says that it is no more effective (and worse in my estimation) than other forms of punishment. I'm not understanding why punishing children is so important anyway. Sure, teach children right from wrong and lead by example, but I don't understand why everyone is so quick to punish. Many people expect way too much of little kids who are not capable of behaving the way they're expected to by a certain age. People should really try to chill out and stop expecting kids to not touch this or that and be quiet, blah, blah, blah. Back to the sexual aspect of spanking: in a class I took recently a law enforcement officer told the class that whenever a large cache of child porn is discovered there is almost always either audiotape or videotape of children being spanked. This is disgusting! It boggles the mind and I don't understand how sick people are. There is a sexual aspect to spanking, plain and simple.

 

Not for everyone. I'm not denying the experience of the three who claim it. I have no reason to disbelieve them. I take them at their word. However that doesn't mean everybody sees spanking as sexual. I don't have the required data to say which is the trend and which is the exception. But clearly not everyone is the same.

[mymistake]

I was royally whipped as a youngster b/c I was so strong willed. My dad often went overkill and lost his rag. I got over it. I endured corpereal punishment at school and it did me no harm.

... that was my situation too! The cane and strap were widely used at school. My dad too would lose his rag. His favorite was a leather dog collar strap whipped around the legs ... I remember even one time a branch off a tree! Like you Livinglife I got over it. The funny thing is I found the mental abuse they inflicted with hell fear FAR worse than any physical punishment! It had a far greater effect on my life than the beatings.

 

I agree emotional abuse can be very bad. Which was were probably depends on the details case by case.

 

God I can remember this one time I had not been cleaning my room and got punished for it. So I cleaned my room the best I ever had in my life. I don't know maybe I was 8-10 at the time. So I show my dad so I can have that "I learned my lesson" moment and he takes a white t-shirt out of a drawer and reaches into the housing on my closet door to wipe up grease on the door's mechanism. Then he showed me the grease so the punishment continued. I felt betrayed. It didn't matter how much I tried to follow the rules. The rules were going to be changed to stack the deck against me.

[Mudhoney]

I was royally whipped as a youngster b/c I was so strong willed. My dad often went overkill and lost his rag. I got over it. I endured corpereal punishment at school and it did me no harm.

... that was my situation too! The cane and strap were widely used at school. My dad too would lose his rag. His favorite was a leather dog collar strap whipped around the legs ... I remember even one time a branch off a tree! Like you Livinglife I got over it. The funny thing is I found the mental abuse they inflicted with hell fear FAR worse than any physical punishment! It had a far greater effect on my life than the beatings.

 

I agree emotional abuse can be very bad. Which was were probably depends on the details case by case.

 

God I can remember this one time I had not been cleaning my room and got punished for it. So I cleaned my room the best I ever had in my life. I don't know maybe I was 8-10 at the time. So I show my dad so I can have that "I learned my lesson" moment and he takes a white t-shirt out of a drawer and reaches into the housing on my closet door to wipe up grease on the door's mechanism. Then he showed me the grease so the punishment continued. I felt betrayed. It didn't matter how much I tried to follow the rules. The rules were going to be changed to stack the deck against me.

 

That's crazy! What a mind fuck.

[mymistake]

That's crazy! What a mind fuck.

 

No, the mind fuck was the day he made me throw away everything I own. That was around age 11 or 12. He brought the big garbage bin from outside into the middle of my room - wet leaves and all. And I was scared to death because spiders like to live in the underside of those garbage bins and here he brought it into my room. If a spider egg fell off and hatched I would have hundreds of them all over the place.

 

I have trouble throwing things away even today.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I would have to say that it is sexual. Not that people are intentionally trying to sexually abuse their children, but if that child is being turned on by something you are doing to them against their will than it is sexually abusive.

 

If a child is sexually turned on by being spanked, then it is that child for whom it is sexual. That does not make it sexual for everyone who gets spaked, and asserting that it does is absurd.

 

Also, just because *you* didn't experience being spanked as a child in any sexual way (i.e. it didn't turn you on as a kid), and just because it didn't screw with *your* psychosexual development, does NOT mean it does not occur with a significant percentage of human beings who have been spanked as children. It occurred with me. I'm sure being spanked as a child isn't the "only" reason I'm a masochist, but... I do feel it played some role.

 

I never said that it couldn't be sexual for some. The point is that saying that it is definitely (thus always) sexual is downirght ridiculous. I know for for a fact that that is not true, because it was never the case for me, and I can assure you that I am not the only person ever spanked who had no sexual charge from it. I am not trying to diminish the claims of those who experienced something sexual with spanking, but I am saying that you can't broadbrush all spanking as being sexual. It's NOT all sexual.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Not for everyone. I'm not denying the experience of the three who claim it. I have no reason to disbelieve them. I take them at their word. However that doesn't mean everybody sees spanking as sexual. I don't have the required data to say which is the trend and which is the exception. But clearly not everyone is the same.

 

Ditto.

[Mudhoney]

I would have to say that it is sexual. Not that people are intentionally trying to sexually abuse their children, but if that child is being turned on by something you are doing to them against their will than it is sexually abusive.

 

If a child is sexually turned on by being spanked, then it is that child for whom it is sexual. That does not make it sexual for everyone who gets spaked, and asserting that it does is absurd.

 

Also, just because *you* didn't experience being spanked as a child in any sexual way (i.e. it didn't turn you on as a kid), and just because it didn't screw with *your* psychosexual development, does NOT mean it does not occur with a significant percentage of human beings who have been spanked as children. It occurred with me. I'm sure being spanked as a child isn't the "only" reason I'm a masochist, but... I do feel it played some role.

 

I never said that it couldn't be sexual for some. The point is that saying that it is definitely (thus always) sexual is downirght ridiculous. I know for for a fact that that is not true, because it was never the case for me, and I can assure you that I am not the only person ever spanked who had no sexual charge from it. I am not trying to diminish the claims of those who experienced something sexual with spanking, but I am saying that you can't broadbrush all spanking as being sexual. It's NOT all sexual.

 

Please stop with the "absurd" remarks. I never said that all children are turned on by spankings, but I did say that some are. I was making the point that even if a few children are turned on by this, then why are will still spanking? Why take the risk? There are other forms of punishment available. And I certainly didn't imply that all parents who spank are trying to be abusive, not at all!

I came to the conclusion that ALL spanking is sexual (although not all who are spanked are aroused by it) from making the observation that some adults spank each other to get off, and that some children who are spanked are turned on by it. I don't think these observations are ridiculous or absurd.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. If what I said bothered you then maybe it hit too close to home? This was a hard thread to post in- no need to get all crazy. I'm not the only one who feels this way and I'm not talking about this thread- there are support forums available for people who feel the same and other people working to get spanking BANNED in the U.S.

[mymistake]

Interesting correlation. Some children are turned on by spanking at an early age. Perhaps that aspect of human sexuality is present from the beginning. It seems to follow the same pattern as heterosexuals and homosexuals knowing at an early age what gender they find attractive. If it is just part of who someone is and not a choice that really kills the whole "sin" model for sexuality.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Please stop with the "absurd" remarks. I never said that all children are turned on by spankings, but I did say that some are. I was making the point that even if a few children are turned on by this, then why are will still spanking? Why take the risk? There are other forms of punishment available. And I certainly didn't imply that all parents who spank are trying to be abusive, not at all!

I came to the conclusion that ALL spanking is sexual (although not all who are spanked are aroused by it) from making the observation that some adults spank each other to get off, and that some children who are spanked are turned on by it. I don't think these observations are ridiculous or absurd.

 

Stop making the absurd claim that "ALL spanking is sexual" and I'll stop calling it absurd. I don't doubt that some spanking is sexual, but saying that all is is just ridiculous.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. If what I said bothered you then maybe it hit too close to home? This was a hard thread to post in- no need to get all crazy. I'm not the only one who feels this way and I'm not talking about this thread- there are support forums available for people who feel the same and other people working to get spanking BANNED in the U.S.

 

Hits close to home? I already said that my experience with spanking was not the least bit sexual, so don't go making assumptions. Getting 10 lashes on my arse and not being able to sit comfortably for a day or so was not the least bit sexual to me. It was physical abuse, but not sexual abuse.

[badpuppy]

Please stop with the "absurd" remarks. I never said that all children are turned on by spankings, but I did say that some are. I was making the point that even if a few children are turned on by this, then why are will still spanking? Why take the risk? There are other forms of punishment available. And I certainly didn't imply that all parents who spank are trying to be abusive, not at all!

I came to the conclusion that ALL spanking is sexual (although not all who are spanked are aroused by it) from making the observation that some adults spank each other to get off, and that some children who are spanked are turned on by it. I don't think these observations are ridiculous or absurd.

 

Stop making the absurd claim that "ALL spanking is sexual" and I'll stop calling it absurd. I don't doubt that some spanking is sexual, but saying that all is is just ridiculous.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. If what I said bothered you then maybe it hit too close to home? This was a hard thread to post in- no need to get all crazy. I'm not the only one who feels this way and I'm not talking about this thread- there are support forums available for people who feel the same and other people working to get spanking BANNED in the U.S.

 

Hits close to home? I already said that my experience with spanking was not the least bit sexual, so don't go making assumptions. Getting 10 lashes on my arse and not being able to sit comfortably for a day or so was not the least bit sexual to me. It was physical abuse, but not sexual abuse.

 

All spanking IS sexual. That is a sexual part of the body and those are sexual nerve endings. Just because every person who spanks doesn't have a sexual motive and just because every child spanked doesn't get turned on or isnt' sexually warped by it... it is STILL SEXUAL. It is unwanted sexual touching.

 

I know people don't want to admit this. Too many in our culture have either been spanked or spanked themselves, so let's just downplay it some more. But if you haven't studied the topic in any depth then don't pretend you KNOW. Holy crap. It denies the damage just "regular level spanking" has done to the psychosexual development of children... including my development.

 

Let me ask you this... are you allowed to walk down the street and smack a grown woman on the ass? What if you don't mean anything sexual by it? What if she isn't turned on? It's still illegal to smack a woman on the ass without her consent because it's touching a private area without someone's consent. Children don't consent. They can't. They are children.

 

I'm sorry spanking was physical abuse to you, but to many it is sexual abuse. how someone processes something doesn't change what was done or wasn't done to them. I was once sexually molested by a boyfriend. It never really harmed me due to my kink allowing me to reshape it into something "hot", but he STILL violated me. It was STILL sexual abuse. Denying that spanking is a form of sexual abuse is harmful to those who were harmed. Pretending like something is only a violation if somebody is personally traumatized by it isn't helpful either because it basically makes it something wrong with that person as opposed to something wrong to do to a person to begin with.

 

Some people get lucky and aren't affected. That's luck, not the nature of what happened.

[mymistake]

All spanking IS sexual. That is a sexual part of the body and those are sexual nerve endings.

 

I don't agree. To me that makes as much sense as declaring handshakes to be sexual. What makes the nerve endings in the hand not sexual but the nerves of bottom are?

 

Just because every person who spanks doesn't have a sexual motive and just because every child spanked doesn't get turned on or isnt' sexually warped by it... it is STILL SEXUAL. It is unwanted sexual touching.

 

The problem is with the quantifiers. I have no problem with your claim that spanking some people find is sexual. However when you claim all spanking is sexual that just doesn't add up. How is it that I do not find spanking a turn on? I've been spanked a lot. I never found it to be sexual. Clearly my experience was part of all spanking but it wasn't sexual.

 

I know people don't want to admit this.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with it if it were true. You can't shame me into admiting it. When Lucy Lu put on the leather in Charlie's Angels that was one of the only times I did not find Lucy Lu attractive. In most of her other movies I find her to be smoking hot but for me spanking is a huge turn off.

 

Too many in our culture have either been spanked or spanked themselves, so let's just downplay it some more. But if you haven't studied the topic in any depth then don't pretend you KNOW. Holy crap. It denies the damage just "regular level spanking" has done to the psychosexual development of children... including my development.

 

You know BP I'm not sugar coating it or downplaying it. I have wrestled with what spanking did to me a to this day. I already told you that you have every right to call it abuse. Pointing out the slight difference is not going all the way to the extreme.

 

Let me ask you this... are you allowed to walk down the street and smack a grown woman on the ass? What if you don't mean anything sexual by it?

 

Same crime as smacking her in the mouth.

 

What if she isn't turned on? It's still illegal to smack a woman on the ass without her consent because it's touching a private area without someone's consent.

 

Touching her nose without her consent is illegal.

 

Children don't consent. They can't. They are children.

 

I'm sorry spanking was physical abuse to you, but to many it is sexual abuse.

 

I don't have a problem with those statements. The problem is when you use the word "all".

 

Who is denying your experience? I'm just asking you to not over generalize.

[Mudhoney]

Please stop with the "absurd" remarks. I never said that all children are turned on by spankings, but I did say that some are. I was making the point that even if a few children are turned on by this, then why are will still spanking? Why take the risk? There are other forms of punishment available. And I certainly didn't imply that all parents who spank are trying to be abusive, not at all!

I came to the conclusion that ALL spanking is sexual (although not all who are spanked are aroused by it) from making the observation that some adults spank each other to get off, and that some children who are spanked are turned on by it. I don't think these observations are ridiculous or absurd.

 

Stop making the absurd claim that "ALL spanking is sexual" and I'll stop calling it absurd. I don't doubt that some spanking is sexual, but saying that all is is just ridiculous.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. If what I said bothered you then maybe it hit too close to home? This was a hard thread to post in- no need to get all crazy. I'm not the only one who feels this way and I'm not talking about this thread- there are support forums available for people who feel the same and other people working to get spanking BANNED in the U.S.

 

Hits close to home? I already said that my experience with spanking was not the least bit sexual, so don't go making assumptions. Getting 10 lashes on my arse and not being able to sit comfortably for a day or so was not the least bit sexual to me. It was physical abuse, but not sexual abuse.

 

I was thinking more along the lines that you spank your own children and it was bothering you that I said all spanking is sexual. Do your own study on spanking, I'm not going to lay the research out for you. It's easier just to name-call I suppose.

[★ Citsonga ★]

All spanking IS sexual. That is a sexual part of the body and those are sexual nerve endings. Just because every person who spanks doesn't have a sexual motive and just because every child spanked doesn't get turned on or isnt' sexually warped by it... it is STILL SEXUAL. It is unwanted sexual touching.

 

That makes about as much sense as saying that changing a baby's diaper is sexual. Actually, an even better case can be made for changing diapers being sexual, because you have to uncover the private parts and rub them clean, whereas most spanking is done with clothes on and doesn't involve rubbing.

 

I know people don't want to admit this. Too many in our culture have either been spanked or spanked themselves, so let's just downplay it some more.

 

It's not a matter of needing to admit it. I don't agree with it. It's not denial, it's my honest assessment. Again, I'm addressing the assertion that all spanking is sexual.

 

But if you haven't studied the topic in any depth then don't pretend you KNOW. Holy crap. It denies the damage just "regular level spanking" has done to the psychosexual development of children... including my development.

 

I am sorry for what you have gone through in your development. I truly am. And I agree that in many cases there is psychological damage from spanking.

 

However, you can't broadbrush everyone's experience based on your own. If your experience was sexual in nature, then that is your own experience, not mine. There is no need for me to study other people's experiences to know that in my personal experience with the subject of spanking, it was never sexual.

 

Let me ask you this... are you allowed to walk down the street and smack a grown woman on the ass? What if you don't mean anything sexual by it? What if she isn't turned on? It's still illegal to smack a woman on the ass without her consent because it's touching a private area without someone's consent. Children don't consent. They can't. They are children.

 

I'm not advocating spanking, but you do need to realize that disciplining one's own children and randomly smacking a stranger on the street are completely different issues.

 

I'm sorry spanking was physical abuse to you, but to many it is sexual abuse.

 

I never denied that. I'm not the one broadbrushing this issue, you are.

 

how someone processes something doesn't change what was done or wasn't done to them. I was once sexually molested by a boyfriend. It never really harmed me due to my kink allowing me to reshape it into something "hot", but he STILL violated me. It was STILL sexual abuse. Denying that spanking is a form of sexual abuse is harmful to those who were harmed. Pretending like something is only a violation if somebody is personally traumatized by it isn't helpful either because it basically makes it something wrong with that person as opposed to something wrong to do to a person to begin with.

 

I am sorry that you were molested. I agree that it was wrong and it was sexual abuse. But once again, you have to realize that spanking and molesting are not the same thing.

 

Some people get lucky and aren't affected. That's luck, not the nature of what happened.

 

Luck or not, the nature of what happened with me and the issue was never sexual. No matter how much you want to think it was, it wasn't. Again, I am sorry for your experience, but projecting your experience onto all others is simply illogical.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I was thinking more along the lines that you spank your own children and it was bothering you that I said all spanking is sexual.

 

I don't spank my children. I haven't in years, and I never spanked them much anyway. It was never sexual, and it was never even severe (just a single swat, as opposed to how I was spanked with many belt lashes). Yes, it bothered me, but that's because there was a disconnect between hitting my children while trying to teach them not to hit. So I quit. Was it wrong? Yes. Sexual? No.

 

It's easier just to name-call I suppose.

 

I don't have to study other peoples' experiences to know my own.

 

It's easier just to name-call I suppose.

 

I didn't call anyone names.

[jackbauer]

Ah corporal punishment. Even since that video of the judge beating his daughter with a belt went viral, I spent some time reading some extremely stupid comments defending the judge. Basically, these idiots think that not beating your kids is synomonous with letting them run wild and become drug addicts. Now I got smacked occasionally. While I didn't agree with it, it wasn't anything horrible (I still have a good relationship with my parents) However, I draw the at beating someone into submission. That's just cruel, authoritarian, and at times, physically dangerous. When the kid is crying and begging you to stop, you crossed a line. All these people who believe that the only way to communicate with kids is by using physical force are fucking idiots.

 

With that said, is it really that surprising that Christians support such harsh punishments for small infractions? After all, look who they have for a role model; a god who will punish them forever in a lake of fire for not living up to an impossible standard. They also believe in original sin, which damns them by default. So they're going to see typical human behavior as evil and deserving of punishment. The only thing I wonder is which is more harmful, beating your kids for small infractions or threatening them with hellfire?

[badpuppy]

I'm out of this discussion.

 

I posted a link to a well-researched article. People can read it or not. This is like having a discussion with a fundie Christian about why hell is abuse while they go: "No it isn't!"

 

One more time: http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

 

Incidentally this is only one of many articles on this subject. If you don't understand the buttocks is a private area with nerve endings that produce SEXUAL responses in a large majority of humanity then I'm done discussing/dealing with you on the subject.

[mymistake]

I'm out of this discussion.

 

I posted a link to a well-researched article. People can read it or not. This is like having a discussion with a fundie Christian about why hell is abuse while they go: "No it isn't!"

 

One more time: http://www.nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

 

Incidentally this is only one of many articles on this subject. If you don't understand the buttocks is a private area with nerve endings that produce SEXUAL responses in a large majority of humanity then I'm done discussing/dealing with you on the subject.

 

BP this isn't personal.

[Mudhoney]

I was thinking more along the lines that you spank your own children and it was bothering you that I said all spanking is sexual.

 

I don't spank my children. I haven't in years, and I never spanked them much anyway. It was never sexual, and it was never even severe (just a single swat, as opposed to how I was spanked with many belt lashes). Yes, it bothered me, but that's because there was a disconnect between hitting my children while trying to teach them not to hit. So I quit. Was it wrong? Yes. Sexual? No.

 

It's easier just to name-call I suppose.

 

I don't have to study other peoples' experiences to know my own.

 

It's easier just to name-call I suppose.

 

I didn't call anyone names.

 

I have a few observations to make and then I'll probably bow out. First of all, your diaper analogy doesn't work for me. I can clean my daughter up during a diaper change without "rubbing" her. Second, the majority of xtian kids being spanked are not clothed, and it's not only a few swats. I have already mentioned a few xtian discipline books and they tell parents to remove pants and underwear (or diaper!), so it stings more, and to keep spanking until the children are compliant. This is an ex-c forum, right? These books are wildly popular with xtian parents. They not only sell well but I've heard parents in my former churches rave about them. I never actually read any of them until I was pregnant (and in the transition of deconverting). My argument here on this thread has been primarily about the sexual aspect but I'm equally disturbed by the physically abusive aspect as well. Some of the posts on this thread were hard to read. The sexual part is the one I'm most vocal about because that was my experience. I did a quick search for "erogenous zones" before posting here and the buttocks were listed on every site I went to. So that's my 2 cents. When someone says "I spanked my kids but it wasn't sexual," you never know, it might have been sexual for them.

[Naughtyhamster]

Once they did get the CPS called on them because a teacher was concerned about my youngest cousin's aggressive behavior towards other kids at school, but that CPS investigation was dismissed after a few months because my uncle convinced them the reason the youngest was like that was because of her small stature forcing her to defend herself against bigger bullies. Also, I think because they are a well off Christian family in a Christian dominated region of California CPS decided to dismiss the case against them.

 

Social services is often an incompetent and idiotic organization...(Ironically, my girlfriend is the psychiatrist for the step father in prison)...

 

However, if my xtian relatives were poor folks, the CPS would have taken their kids in a flash, but because they had $$ ( and still due because my uncle is such a cheapskate and works for the same company) the CPS changed their minds. I guess this is the reason we read about those kids in rich families snapping and killing their parents after being hit one too many times as CPS doesn't bother well off people about the treatment of their kids.

[★ Citsonga ★]

First of all, your diaper analogy doesn't work for me. I can clean my daughter up during a diaper change without "rubbing" her.

 

If she's just a little wet, then yes. If there's crap stuck to her, then you have to wipe it off. Earlier in this thread an argument was made that you can't just go down the street and slap a random person on the bottom. Well, you can't just go down the street and wipe a random person's bottom either. I am not arguing that changing diapers really is sexual; I am merely showing that the criteria being used in this thread to claim that all spanking is sexual would also render diaper changing as sexual.

 

Second, the majority of xtian kids being spanked are not clothed, and it's not only a few swats.

 

I was never spanked without clothes on. Back when I did spank my children a few times, it was not without clothes on. I would agree that requiring a child to remove his/her clothes for a spanking should be classified as sexual abuse, but that does not represent all spanking. A quick swat is not the same thing as making the child disrobe. Again, I am not justifying the swat, I'm just saying that it is not automatically sexual.

 

My argument here on this thread has been primarily about the sexual aspect but I'm equally disturbed by the physically abusive aspect as well. Some of the posts on this thread were hard to read. The sexual part is the one I'm most vocal about because that was my experience.

 

I really am sorry about your experience. My arguments are not meant to detract from your personal experience. My point is that you can't broadbrush everyone based on your personal experience. Just because there was a sexual aspect in your experience does not make spanking sexual in every case. It is abuse, but not automatically sexual abuse.

 

When someone says "I spanked my kids but it wasn't sexual," you never know, it might have been sexual for them.

 

My children were way too young at the time to have any sexual awareness anyway, so they couldn't have.

 

As far as my experience when I was a child, the spankings I received were so severe that there is no way sexuality could have entered my mind. I had stripes on my ass for days and it was extremely uncomfortable to sit. That is physical abuse, most certainly (I never beat my children like that), but there was nothing sexual about it at all.