Top Ten Reasons Not To Fear Biblical End-times Scenarios

[Overcame Faith]

Wow, This is really well done. I also wrote an article called Armageddon; The Self-fulfilling Prophecy, but this was much better than my article. I loved the way you summed it up. Good work!

 

Thank-you. The title of your article is so true, "Armageddon: The Self-fulfilling Prophecy." It does seem that there are people out there who would like nothing more than to see an actual Armageddon, complete with mass destruction, as a way to "force" Jesus to return, though they would never call it "forcing" Jesus to return. They would explain it more along the lines of if we can somehow get the alleged prophecies to come to pass then it would be inevitable that Jesus would appear and rapture them away from the troubles of this world. Of course, there are also those who see every event of any significance as a sure "sign of the times." What I hate about all of that is how it causes unwarranted fear for so many people.

[micksherlock]

Wow, This is really well done. I also wrote an article called Armageddon; The Self-fulfilling Prophecy, but this was much better than my article. I loved the way you summed it up. Good work!

 

Thank-you. The title of your article is so true, "Armageddon: The Self-fulfilling Prophecy." It does seem that there are people out there who would like nothing more than to see an actual Armageddon, complete with mass destruction, as a way to "force" Jesus to return, though they would never call it "forcing" Jesus to return. They would explain it more along the lines of if we can somehow get the alleged prophecies to come to pass then it would be inevitable that Jesus would appear and rapture them away from the troubles of this world. Of course, there are also those who see every event of any significance as a sure "sign of the times." What I hate about all of that is how it causes unwarranted fear for so many people.

 

Excellent point! And what does fear bring about?

[Overcame Faith]

And what does fear bring about?

 

The fear makes it difficult to enjoy one's life because so many events become tied into the feeling of pending doom all "foretold" in Revelation, Daniel, and Jesus' Olivet discourse (and other places in the Bible). When there is a chip available to put into one's pet in case it gets lost, that becomes the Mark of the Beast which will eventually be required for all people. When dolphins die in large numbers somewhere in the world, that becomes the blasting of one of the trumpets in Revelation. When there is a succession of earthquakes, those are signs of the end-times. When there is some ecumenical movement among various religious leaders, that becomes the first steps toward a super religion which will be headed by Satan's minions. When nations sign various treaties to try to work together, that becomes the one world government over which the anti-Christ will rule and bring his "foretold" doom upon the world.

 

For some, it becomes difficult to enjoy one's life because any year, month, week, or day the anti-Christ will make his appearance. Some will be raptured away, but some will be "left behind" to endure what they think will be the worst struggle in human history where one wrong move will land one in hell for eternity. The fear is that the individual going through all of this doesn't have what it takes to be raptured away and so must endure something worse than has ever happened in human history.

 

It's not that I can assure anyone that bad things won't happen because they will. There will continue to be crimes, war, famines, earthquakes, hurricanes, dolphins dying, etc. But maybe if people will come to realize that none of it is tied in any way to the alleged prophecies of the Bible, they will at least be able to put the fear that it is being orchestrated at the divine level out of their minds. They may not feel so helpless, either, at least for the issues which we can control (i.e., war and famines caused by political intrigue, etc.) and people will realize that something can actually be done about those things.

[micksherlock]

And what does fear bring about?

 

The fear makes it difficult to enjoy one's life because so many events become tied into the feeling of pending doom all "foretold" in Revelation, Daniel, and Jesus' Olivet discourse (and other places in the Bible). When there is a chip available to put into one's pet in case it gets lost, that becomes the Mark of the Beast which will eventually be required for all people. When dolphins die in large numbers somewhere in the world, that becomes the blasting of one of the trumpets in Revelation. When there is a succession of earthquakes, those are signs of the end-times. When there is some ecumenical movement among various religious leaders, that becomes the first steps toward a super religion which will be headed by Satan's minions. When nations sign various treaties to try to work together, that becomes the one world government over which the anti-Christ will rule and bring his "foretold" doom upon the world.

 

For some, it becomes difficult to enjoy one's life because any year, month, week, or day the anti-Christ will make his appearance. Some will be raptured away, but some will be "left behind" to endure what they think will be the worst struggle in human history where one wrong move will land one in hell for eternity. The fear is that the individual going through all of this doesn't have what it takes to be raptured away and so must endure something worse than has ever happened in human history.

 

It's not that I can assure anyone that bad things won't happen because they will. There will continue to be crimes, war, famines, earthquakes, hurricanes, dolphins dying, etc. But maybe if people will come to realize that none of it is tied in any way to the alleged prophecies of the Bible, they will at least be able to put the fear that it is being orchestrated at the divine level out of their minds. They may not feel so helpless, either, at least for the issues which we can control (i.e., war and famines caused by political intrigue, etc.) and people will realize that something can actually be done about those things.

 

And I think more than that, people are much more easily manipulated. "Weapons of Mass Destruction!!"

[Habiba]

This article is certainly the cerebral equivalent of a brown paper bag to breathe into. As a child "The end times" were my bogeyman. I lived in literal fear and trembling. I remember watching "Earth's 3 minute warning" and praying and crying in terror of what I and my loved ones might face. It's certainly a great exercise to read such a well written and succinct debunking of it all!

[Overcame Faith]

Thank-you Habiba. The thread was started by me and made better by significant and thoughtful contributions from others for people like you who have been needlessly terrorized by "end-times" talk. I hope you can begin to leave the fear behind and live and enjoy your life as you ought to.

[Mountainman]

Neutral, historical biblical scholars pretty much agree that Revelations was written IN CODE by a man who was in prison. Today, we have no way to break the code. This book almost didn't make it when the Bible was put together at the Council on Nicea -- and it should not have.

[★ Citsonga ★]

This book almost didn't make it when the Bible was put together at the Council on Nicea -- and it should not have.

 

Technically, none of the books should have made it. There's no reason to consider any of them to be "the Word of God," so there shouldn't even be a "Bible."

[Overcame Faith]

Mylo, based upon your post above, I can't really tell whether your concern is related to so-called biblical "prophecy" or more of a secular concern that something bad could happen. If biblically related, would you mind posting those concerns and perhaps I could help you address them.

 

If your concern is more secular in nature, that is, not biblically based but a concern that catastrophies could strike at any time, then that is something else. If that is the case, then you should never accept all the many doomsday predictions you will find all over the place without looking into them for yourself. For example, you mention that RFID chips are part of Obamacare. Are they really?

 

A quick Google search will bring up scores of fear-mongering half truths. They will tell you that on page 1,004 of H.R. 3200 is the requirement for implantation of RFIDs which will allow the government to monitor you and your health records and other information about you. That is a lie, or if I want to be kind, it is a complete misunderstanding of H.R. 3200. Here is a link to H.R. 3200 should you care to read all 1,017 pages (though I would only recommend reading all of it if you are having trouble sleeping. )

 

http://www.gpo.gov/f...111hr3200ih.pdf

 

If you are interested in reading that part of H.R. 3200 which others say requires us to be implanted with a RFID, then begin reading at the section entitled, "Sec. 2521. National Medical Device Registry." That is found on page 1,000. There is not one word, not one word which requires any person to be implanted with anything at all. Rather, what it requires is for a registry to be formed in which manufacturers of devices like pacemakers, replacement joints and the like are required to provide the government with certain information so they have one central repository of information about such devices. The purpose of the registry is so devices (again, like pacemakers, etc.) can be monitored so we have information about problems patients may be having with them and so, in turn, we can tell if there is some defect which could adversely affect the health and welfare of people who must have such devices.

 

It is true that the law gives the government access to certain health records of patients who have a medical device, but there are also protective measures to ensure their privacy. And the purpose of giving the government access to this information is so the proper authorities can assess the safety and effectiveness of the devices. But, and this is important, there is not one word requiring that such information be put into a RFID and implanted in anyone whatsoever.

 

Debunking non-biblical fearmongering is not so much different from debunking biblically based fearmongering. The key is to go to the source and seek the truth and not to be fooled by what others say when they do not even know what they are talking about.

 

I hope this helps.

[Ravenstar]

What an absolutely fascinating thread.. thank you for sharing with us and all the hard work.

 

I think it's very possible that John of Patmos was a Roman political insider (maybe even a player in the senate?) who also happened to be a Christian (Roman Christian?) This would explain exile instead of execution if he was a Roman citizen and not just some christian...or even a Greek or a Jew. The timing is exquisite... from what I have read here the facts and your interpretation paint a much more politicized understanding of what was going on in Rome and in Jerusalem in the first century.

 

I've thought that the messiah expected by the Hebrews was actually a temporal leader they wanted to lead them out of Roman occupation.. this makes sense with Hebrew texts and understanding - since they reject Jesus as the fulfillment of that. That said.. Jesus (or the compliation of such a person from various 'rebels' of the time period) was fed by this national desire to be out from under Rome. Fast forward 60 years (about a generation) to John of Patmos.. obviously there was trouble in the Roman empire with Nero and such.. the Christians, being a group which were basically religious and , I suggest, POLITICAL rebels would have been convenient targets for a government/dictator trying to deflect blame... but maybe they were causing much more problems politically than we know... fast forward to the destruction of Jerusalem (not long after).

 

hmmm... it kind of points to the christians (or even also the Jews) being very involved in an attempted rebellion against the Roman Empire. Right or wrong they got slapped and the Temple destroyed (collateral damage?)

 

Your interpretation of Revelation being a coded text of warning and.. although you only hint at it... a call for rebellion/revolution rings true for me... details aside. I don't think that the churches would have had a hard time understanding the symbolism... the people of the day and especially the christians would have spoken of Rome with such metaphorical terms as a matter of language. Think of the Illiad.. today we have to really dig to understand some of the symbology and literary devices used in those stories.. to the Greeks it was perfectly clear what was meant... because they were steeped in those metaphors and symbols and context.

 

This is also consistent with the scriptures saying that these things would happen soon, and in this generation, etc..

 

The entire problem with 'prophetic' texts is once they are taken out of cultural and political context they can mean anything, and probably nothing. I have no problem with accepting that the political atmosphere at the time was at the forefront of anything written at that time. It's really the only sensible view considering how myopic and self-absorbed humanity is.

[Suzy]

The EU being formed was a big thing too I remember.

 

Is the EU really predicted in the Bible? Or is it just that Christians try to interpret the historical events into the Bible prophecies? IMO it's the latter. Even as a Christian I had a hard time to reconcile the real historical events with Bible prophecy. Even when I was told the EU is the evil empire of the end times predicted in the Bible, I just did not see it, because the entity that the Bible talks about is actually a LOT different than the EU - geographically, politically etc. But most Christians just accept what they are told.

 

Also the interpretation of Bible "prophecy" is quite flexible and will always get adjused to actual historical events. For example, about 20 years ago in the evangelical circles I belonged to it was almost universally accepted that the evil empire of the end times was the EU. Interestingly since 9/11 that started to shift into the direction of an Islamic empire. Yes, there are still many Christians who think the EU is the evil empire but there are more and more who support this new idea, that the evil empire will be some kind of Islamic caliphate with Turkish leadership. Of course, that's because of the tension between the Christian and Islamic world, especially since 9/11. So "prophecy" always keeps being adjusted giving the impression for some people that it accurately predicted things. It did not. It's just adjusted.

 

The actual Bible "prophecy" is like Nostredamus' predictions: so vague that it can be interpreted in many, many ways. And that's the secret of a "good prophecy"...

[Jedah]

Not to say the OP isn't well written, but there is really only one reason neccesarry to not fear biblical end times: the bible is bullshit.

[Suzy]

The EU thing, I remember Jack Van Impe was big into that. It was to be proof that the 'one world currency' was on it's way and coming into fulfillment. But everyone's speculated which nation the beast would rise from and who the 'great bear' is that the scriptures speak of.

 

Does the Bible REALLY talk about a "one world currency"? I don't think so. This is what the Bible actually says:

 

"It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[a] That number is 666."

 

(Rev. 13:16-18)

 

Like every "good prophecy" it can be anything. Christians interpret a "one world currency" into it nowadays, because that's where they assume the current economical trends are heading towards. But in reality they just interpret it into a Bible passage that is not nearly as clear as they'd like people to believe.

 

Yeah, we too speculated about who the beast was and what nationality he would be. We had a new candidate every year... I remember Nicolas Sarkozy was one...

[Overcame Faith]

This has had me wondering, "Do I really need to be stocking up on beans and rice and water?"

 

Let's go back and address this, Mylo. My basic message, and the message of many others on ExC, is that the Bible contains no prophecies at all. People who read it as containing prophecies that relate to us at this time in history are wrong and in many cases have been mislead by fearmongerers and in other cases, they are the fearmongerers.

 

That having been said, there is no doubt that disasters will happen. One's house could burn down. There could be hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamies, wildfires and this list could go on and on. So, it is a prudent person who reasonably prepares for such potential disasters. But, again, I want to emphasize that the Bible predicted none of it. If you are interested in preparing for potential disasters, take a look at this FEMA website and download the publication called IS-22 which has a link near the top of the first page:

 

http://www.ready.gov...you-ready-guide

 

To my way of thinking, this publication seems to be a practical guide.

[reluctantagn]

Several years before I quit being a believer, I pretty much divorced myself from any interest in eschatology. I remember telling several people- You can have a very clear view of how the end times thing will come out as long as you stick to one author.

[RachelSkates]

What helped me was considering if it was true. I saw a movie called Skyline. It was an alien movie but had a rapture. Only they were raptured into a spacecraft and their brains harvested. Hee.

 

Well, imagine there really IS a rapture. Imagine the SHEER TERROR. Flying up into the air? Looking down and seeing the earth and freaking out? Then what? So you go up to heaven with a billion others. How do you stop flying into one another? How could you possible keep connected to loved ones? How many will have heart attacks from the sheer terror of it all?

 

Recall from their Bible that this is in BODY FORM not just spirit.

 

Where do you all shit? What do you eat? What happens when you are tired? How long till you get your little mansion and streets of gold and will that really make up for the chaos?

 

For those who lived through Sandy and Katrina, this is something which might ring a bell. PTSD is still a factor in many survivors.

 

Those left behind at least have chance with something familiar, even if everything is not the way it was.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Several years before I quit being a believer, I pretty much divorced myself from any interest in eschatology. I remember telling several people- You can have a very clear view of how the end times thing will come out as long as you stick to one author.

 

I was never really "into" eschatology at all myself. I was more into general theology and Christian living than worrying about the end times. Rather than adopting a pre-trib, post-trib or mid-trib interpretation, I called myself a "pan-tribulationist," meaning however it "pans" out in the end (I got the term from someone on the Bible Answerman radio program years ago).

[Guest Pixie]

Hello everyone. I would like to thank the author of this thread. I have been a lurker for a while now and have spent a lot of time in the past months reading this because of my own fears of the end times. This has always been a big fear for me. Even though I am intellectually starting to understand, I am still filled with an element of fear. I will continue to study this. Thanks

[bornagainathiest]

Hey Pixie!

 

I hope this is of some help to you.

Like you, I was fearful of Revelation and ending up in the Lake of Fire.

But here's another reason (to add to the excellent ones listed here) to not be fearful.

Please follow this chain of logic.

 

1.

The whole Book of Revelation, if taken literally, demands that the content of the Gospels be literally true as well.

Nothing in Revelation can be true if what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote isn't also, literally true.

 

2.

The whole of the four Gospels, if taken literally, demand that the content of Genesis 1 and 2 be literally true as well.

Nothing in the Gospels can be true if Adam and Eve did not fall from grace, as described in Genesis. Jesus is the New Adam, who (according to the Bible) came to restore a proper relationship between God and man - the very same relationship that was destroyed when Satan tempted Eve and Adam to sin. So, unless all the characters in the Creation narrative were real and unless there was a real, historical and literal Fall from Grace, there's no reason for God to incarnate Himself as Jesus, is there? You don't restore what isn't lost, do you?

 

3.

There's a mountain of evidence that clearly shows that the Book of Genesis cannot be literally and historically true.

Humans weren't created - they evolved. The Earth isn't just 6,000 years old (according to the Bible genealogies) - 4.5 billion years old. The universe wasn't created in 6 days - it's been evolving for 13.72 billion years. And so on.

Cosmology, Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Palaeontology, Genetics, Anthropology, Archaeology; whatever branch of science you pick - they all agree that the Biblical description of 'history' cannot be literally true.

There was no global Flood. The human race wasn't reduced down to just eight people. The diversity of human languages isn't the result of God smiting the people of Babylon with a multitude of different tongues.

There's no archaeological evidence that the Israelites were ever the slaves of the Egyptians, etc., etc.

 

So Pixie, if Genesis isn't literally true, then neither are the Gospels and neither is Revelation.

 

Game over!

.

.

.

 

Ok, if certain Christians want to say that the Bible speaks in metaphors, allegories and mythical stories, that's fine. Let them. Let them assert that Genesis, the Gospels and Revelation are rich in metaphors, yet still point to a fundamental truth. Let them make their case.

 

I'm not afraid of an unwieldy, contradictory mish-mash of metaphors, symbols and inaccurate historical reportage that purports to be the ultimate truth of life. Why? Because anyone can cut and re-cut such a Bible any way they like and make it read however they want.

 

That's the catch, if you say that the Bible isn't literally true. Understanding God's Word is then just a matter of personal interpretation and personal bias and anyone's p.o.v. could be just as valid or invalid as anyone else's.

That's no reason to be afraid, is it?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Guest Pixie]

How I thank you for this. I have been trying to understand this issue for a long time. It still scares me. You have summed up a lot of apologetics in such a simple manner. I have read on the ex christian forums that if Genesis is not true, then the whole concept for the rest of the bible falls apart. I think this was the first question I asked myself in the last year. Did Adam and Eve really exist? If they didn't, then how would one look at the bible differently?

Thanks a lot.

[Thackerie]

Overcame Faith, it's interesting to read what you're saying about Revelation possibly being about Rome in the first century. Years ago a christian friend of mine told me that his parents believed that Revelation was about things that had already happened (I think it was even thought to be about Nero), but of course we were not open to such an interpretation because we were devout believers and that's not a standard christian understanding of the text. While I'm still not sure that I'm on the same page as you in the interpretation (since it involves speculation), it's interesting to see such a perspective laid out in detail, and it at least seems to possibly be a realistic understanding. (And for clarification, I fully agree with all your other points so far in the thread.)

 

Thanks, Citsonga. I take what you say as a compliment. And coming from you, a good one.

 

And I think you read my interpretation of Revelation correctly. Yes, there is speculation and I could be wrong about the details, of course. But as I have tried to say, and as I am sure you understand and agree, my interpretation is a whale of a lot more probable than what the end-timers say. And that's all I think I have to do to debunk the end-timers. Give a more plausible explanation than they offer.

 

I was taught in the History of the Bible course, which I took my freshman year in a liberal arts college 35 years ago, that Revelation is really about events transpiring at the time it was written. It was a criticism of Rome under Emperor Nero, and it was written the way it is to disguise that fact -- because direct criticism could have been met with the death penalty. So, it seems that at least some scholars agree with your view, and have for some time.

[bornagainathiest]

How I thank you for this. I have been trying to understand this issue for a long time. It still scares me. You have summed up a lot of apologetics in such a simple manner. I have read on the ex christian forums that if Genesis is not true, then the whole concept for the rest of the bible falls apart. I think this was the first question I asked myself in the last year. Did Adam and Eve really exist? If they didn't, then how would one look at the bible differently?

Thanks a lot.

 

I'm very pleased to help Pixie.

 

But please forgive me for being so remiss!

I plunged straight in with a reply to your question - without welcoming you! (Sorry 'bout that.)

Yes, indeed you're very welcome here and I'm sure that I can speak for others in saying that we're pleased that you've joined us. We're also here to help you in whatever way we can. All you have to do is ask. Either openly, like this, or by Private Messaging.

 

Speaking on my own behalf, I've received a LOT of help from the folks here and I can safely say that I've also grown personally and learned much, over the years I've been here. I've learned to trust and respect my fellow members and I've also been pleased to help others find answers to the questions that are bothering them. Ex-Christian.net has a membership of people from all walks of life and from many different backgrounds. It's diversity is it's strength. Some members are experts in Bible-related matters and some (like me) are ordinary Joe's who are keen enthusiasts on different subjects.

 

So, if you have any pressing questions Pixie, please go ahead and ask. It's quite likely that someone else at some point, will have asked the same or a very similar question - so an answer won't be long in coming!

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[bornagainathiest]

How I thank you for this. I have been trying to understand this issue for a long time. It still scares me. You have summed up a lot of apologetics in such a simple manner. I have read on the ex christian forums that if Genesis is not true, then the whole concept for the rest of the bible falls apart. I think this was the first question I asked myself in the last year. Did Adam and Eve really exist? If they didn't, then how would one look at the bible differently?

Thanks a lot.

 

Hey Pixie!

 

Guess what?

 

Just as I said, someone's already asked a very similar question to yours... "Did Adam and Eve really exist?"

In fact, the topics of Genesis, A & E and Original Sin just keep on 'popping' up.

So here's some links that should be of interest to you.

 

http://www.ex-christ...32-no-adam-eve/

 

http://www.ex-christ...ble-genealogies

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/51571-the-genesis-fraud/

 

http://www.ex-christ...atans-timeline/

 

http://www.ex-christ...nist-timescale/

 

http://www.ex-christ...r-deconversion/

 

http://www.ex-christ...f-adam-and-eve/

 

http://www.ex-christ...ible-cosmology/

 

Enjoy!

 

BAA.

 

 

p.s.

This is a LOT of reading, so don't rush it. Just take your time and dip in whenever you want to, ok?

[Guest Pixie]

Thank you Bornagainathist. How wonderful this is! I have been reading this thread for so long now. I feel as if I know some of you already. You have made me feel very welcome. I will look into all the links that you've sent me. I don't really have lot to say, I want to study more than anything. But now, I am so glad I joined because I can finally post some responces! This website will help me make some big decisions in my life. I will take it slow, as many of you have advised in the postings.

 

Thanks

[Overcame Faith]

Hello everyone. I would like to thank the author of this thread. I have been a lurker for a while now and have spent a lot of time in the past months reading this because of my own fears of the end times. This has always been a big fear for me. Even though I am intellectually starting to understand, I am still filled with an element of fear. I will continue to study this. Thanks

 

Hi, Pixie, and welcome to ExC. Glad you're here.

 

I hope the thread helps you. There was a lot of excellent input along the way by a number of ExC members.

 

I was reading the forum before I started this thread and saw a number of threads and posts related to fear of end-times. That was why I started this thread to deal with at least some of the issues.

 

If you have any specific concerns or issues, feel free to let us know and maybe we can be of help to you.