LivingLife Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Good one OB Remember god is Love... Lame Outdated Vengeful Egomaniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Plus, God created us as individuals with unique personalities Really? Wow! He really created you? You were not born through a natural process of a sperm fertilizing an ova and making a zygote. You actually were one of the special creations by God? Yes! Really! Isn’t that exciting?! Natural process and special creation … both!! How was it? When did it happen? Which age did he create you to be? Did he make you 10 years old or 15? You just poofed into air, just like that? Amazing. We actually have a live God-created person here! Tell us more! You made my whole being; you formed me in my mother's body. I praise you because you made me in an amazing and wonderful way. What you have done is wonderful. I know this very well. (Psalm 139:13-14) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Contradictory set of holy texts? Yep, do some research, within the Bible. If you claim contradictory sets of passages are metaphorical it is merely a dodging of the question. Anytime someone encounters something they don't like within the Bible it is chalked up to metaphor or it has to be seen in the cultural context, a complete contradiction to the idea that God inspired the "writers" of the Bible. I've done research. Though I don't know exactly what you're referring to, is it a bad idea to consider literary forms/styles and cultural context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yes! Really! Isn’t that exciting?! Natural process and special creation … both!! Wow. Well, I know I came from a zygote, and it was a natural process. And I'm happy with that. You made my whole being; you formed me in my mother's body. It's well established that your formation during the gestation process is through epigenesis controlled by the DNA. There is no magic in the process of mitosis or meiosis. I praise you because you made me in an amazing and wonderful way. What you have done is wonderful. I know this very well. (Psalm 139:13-14) I praise DNA for making me to an amazing person. And I praise my parents for raising me and teaching me about life. God had nothing to do with it. It's all natural. And I suspect you were not *poof*ed into existence at all, but you were formed through epigenesis like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 No threats. In Genesis said that if Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they would die. That's a threat. God knew that it was a threat. He tried to scare them to obedience. No threat - just a fact. God is clear - do this and this will happen … do this and this will happen. Adam and Eve didn’t trust God knew what He was talking about - they thought they knew better. Being “scared into obedience” doesn’t produce a deep, meaningful relationship. You might never intend to scare your children into obedience, but they may sometimes hear it that way. The older they get the more serious the consequences of disobedience (unwise choices) become. If your child thinks you’re exaggerating the probable dangers of his/her choice (life-changing consequences, potential loss of life) do you calmly tell your child to take care and have fun? Do you never warn your children of possible bad consequences from a harmful choice? Absolutely. But I never threatened to lock them into a room that was set on fire and never let them out because they didn't believe me. That would be insane to do something like that. But that's what God does. There’s no fire. I don’t know how old your children are but they may one day lock themselves in their room so you can’t come in (literally or figuratively). How many kids have shouted to their parents, “GET OUT OF MY LIFE!”? You let them choose to do whatever they want with no input from you? Of course not. To give input is not the same as put someone on fire for eternity for something small. We're supposed to burn and be tortured for eternity for not believing in Jesus. Not for murdering someone. Not for stealing or raping someone. Not for harming a kid. We're supposed to go there because we didn't "receive" Jesus. It would be like me killing my kids for not believing in me. Our society put people in jail for such behavior. But you're unwilling to do that to your God... No fire. People choose to separate themselves from God (lock themselves in hell) because they don’t want relationship with Him. Demons believe in Jesus … so what? Knowing God exists doesn’t matter. I bet your kids believe you exist. But someday they may not want any relationship with you, and if that’s the case they’ll separate themselves from you. And if you love and respect them you won’t barge through their door every hour, insisting that they spend time with you and like you. Have you put God in jail? Or do you not believe He exists? Sometimes it seems you’ve done the former. Ergo, I have better morals than your God. I'm good. Your God is not. Adam thought the same. So have we all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 No threat - just a fact. God is clear - do this and this will happen … do this and this will happen. A warning that is not a threat is only proper when the person who is making the warning is not in control or the creator of the threat. If a person is the one who creates the threat and warns the other person, then the threat is a threat. Compare these two situations: 1. A boulder is rolling down the hill. Person A warns person B to get out of the way or be killed. Person A didn't make the boulder roll down the hill and did not put person B in the position of the threat. That is a warning. 2. A boulder is rolling down the hill, but it's rolling down because person A got it rolling. He/she used some explosives or whatever. Then person A put person B in the path of the boulder and told person B to obey person A or get killed. This is to put a person under direct threat and with conditions. The condition is the person B must obey person A or get killed by the actions of person A. God created the tree. God created death. God put Adam and Eve in the situation. And God threatened them. Adam and Eve didn’t trust God knew what He was talking about - they thought they knew better. Being “scared into obedience” doesn’t produce a deep, meaningful relationship. That's right. Scaring someone into obedience is not a good way of producing a deep and meaningful relationship, but that was exactly what God did (in your story). And secondly, Hell has been used and is still used as scare tactics. Even natural disasters are used by Christians as scare tactics. For instance, comments from preachers that a hurricane hit a city because they were full of sin and didn't obey God, is in fact scare tactics. It's the means of scaring people into belief. You might never intend to scare your children into obedience, but they may sometimes hear it that way. The older they get the more serious the consequences of disobedience (unwise choices) become. If your child thinks you’re exaggerating the probable dangers of his/her choice (life-changing consequences, potential loss of life) do you calmly tell your child to take care and have fun? The difference between me and your God is that I give my kids a chance to fix their problem. I tell them what will happen (and those things are not in my control, but natural results of their actions), and how they can avoid them, and how they can fix them if they still did it. God punishes for eternity for what Adam and Eve did. It's an extremely different situation. I don’t know how old your children are but they may one day lock themselves in their room so you can’t come in (literally or figuratively). How many kids have shouted to their parents, “GET OUT OF MY LIFE!”? God created death (according to your belief), and God created Hell. (Isn't he the "First Cause" of everything?) I wouldn't create a prison for my kids and lock them in there because they refused to praise me. Your God is an evil despot. No fire. So you don't believe in Gehenna? People choose to separate themselves from God (lock themselves in hell) because they don’t want relationship with Him. Demons believe in Jesus … so what? Knowing God exists doesn’t matter. No. The problem is that I don't know if God exist. I don't believe that God exists. For me to intentionally separate myself from God, God has to show himself first and show me that he exists. He hasn't done that. Your God only exists in your words and your belief. I bet your kids believe you exist. Of course they do. Because they can directly hear my voice, see my face, touch my hand, and know for sure. Show me God. I can't hear him or see him, and I have not seen any evidence that he exists. How can I believe in a fictional character only because you say so? But someday they may not want any relationship with you, and if that’s the case they’ll separate themselves from you. And if you love and respect them you won’t barge through their door every hour, insisting that they spend time with you and like you. Exactly. I won't. And I won't lock them into a room and set it on fire either. Have you put God in jail? Or do you not believe He exists? Sometimes it seems you’ve done the former. God doesn't exist. He's just a figment of your imagination. Adam thought the same. So have we all. I do better than your imaginary God. So I am better than your fictional character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I've done research. Though I don't know exactly what you're referring to, is it a bad idea to consider literary forms/styles and cultural context? No, it's not actually, I consider reading scriptures based on cultural context and the ways Jewish writers wrote things to be paramount, however, reconciling a "God" with obviously man-made writings is rather odd, don't you think? I certainly do see how people can be literalists, however, to not be a literalists means you have to abandon many preconceived ideas of your God, and then embark upon murky waters based on subjective experiences and interpretations. Literalists believe in the Bible God, as revealed through scripture, they take all passages literally, without delving into the ideas and biases behind each of the authors, which if you do, you eventually end up abandoning any traditional or literal sense of the word "God" and instead begin searching for a different God. However, to cling to ideals or preconceived projections of this God is rather silly to me, since they are based in anthropomorphic terms and are often based on projections based on needs. People project needs on to God (I capitalize so you know I am referring specifically to your *God*) based on their own spiritual, emotional or intellectual needs or wants.Their interpretation of the Bible will often follow suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. (NIV) (“perfect” carries the meaning of “complete, finished, full grown, mature”) Yes. So God, the perfect, complete, finished, full grown, and mature being put fear in people by threatening with Hell. "Praise me or else!" I give my kids more love and less fear than your petty and childish God. No threats. Do you never warn your children of possible bad consequences from a harmful choice? You let them choose to do whatever they want with no input from you? I know what I would do if I was all knowing and knew the future. I wouldn't put my kids near my own venus flytrap in way. If I new what would happen in my kids life, out of love I would take away any harm that could happen to the kid. God however doesn't seem to. And a small caveat and its why I hate God, Human Parent analogies. Its apples to oranges. I don't know what going to happen in the future, my kid if I had one could be a murderer. If I knew that, I wouldn't allow the kid to be born. God however seems to would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yes! Really! Isn’t that exciting?! Natural process and special creation … both!! Wow. Well, I know I came from a zygote, and it was a natural process. And I'm happy with that. You made my whole being; you formed me in my mother's body. It's well established that your formation during the gestation process is through epigenesis controlled by the DNA. There is no magic in the process of mitosis or meiosis. I praise you because you made me in an amazing and wonderful way. What you have done is wonderful. I know this very well. (Psalm 139:13-14) I praise DNA for making me to an amazing person. And I praise my parents for raising me and teaching me about life. God had nothing to do with it. It's all natural. And I suspect you were not *poof*ed into existence at all, but you were formed through epigenesis like everyone else. Natural process and special creation combined. No magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Natural process and special creation combined. No magic. Special creation is magic. Miracles are just magic under a different name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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