Please Forgive Me?

[Aggie]

Margee,

I have seen many of your encouraging posts over the past several months and it was great to see this old one as well.  Very moving and shows your courage.  

This came to mind... A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave. –Gandhi

[Margee]

Margee,

I have seen many of your encouraging posts over the past several months and it was great to see this old one as well.  Very moving and shows your courage.  

This came to mind... A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave. –Gandhi

 

Aggie, thanks so much for the lovely compliment. I'm not quite sure how brave I am, but I know for sure that once my faith was slowly dissipating, there was no turning back, no matter what. Even if I had continued to go to church and 'pretend' good Christian girl....surely the God who knows all your thoughts could not have been fooled by me? I was 'sunk' either which way.

 

I often wonder where I would be today if not for EX-c and you wonderful people who I have so much in common with? This site saved whatever sanity I have left! Lol

 

Thanks for that great quote Aggie....maybe I am 'brave' after all.......

 

*hugs*

[RipVanWinkle]

I love to read and reread your lovely letter. You're the best.   bill

[DrGuitar]

Margee

 

Thank you for that sincere heartfelt post

You have sure been through much agonizing about all this Bible stuff..you certianly cant say you never believed in the first place!

 

I guess my deconversion was a little less emotionally wrenching because I just could not get that worked up over a phony Biblical God that had obviously been a fiction...plus Christians had always seemed a little plastic and robot-like to me so it was not hard to get away from church.

 

I didnt throw away the idea of a God or transcendent consciousness, I just trashed the semitic, Herbrew invented Yaweh and of the course the Jesus persona of the NT (God 2.0 or the "good cop" persona).

 

I always saw it more from an intellectual point of view and when the facts undermined the credibility of the Bible, there went my "faith".

 

I always found it hard to love a god like Yahweh anyway. He was so vicious and judging and unloving.

 

Heck, I as a man, I love my kids way better than that invention. But then again those Bronze Age people were highly superstitious and completely ignorant of scientif fact. Further, Semitics have not exactly been the most peaceful, kind people group on the planet so why shouldn't their invented god reflect their character? (He in fact, does indeed.)

 

Anyway... welcome to freedom from the Jesus cult. Life IS better in the open air as you will find out more and more. People in their essence are awesome, we arent sinful worms in need of some blood sacrificing man-god. My friends are to a large extent Christian still but I sense I get on their nerves with my irreverent attitude. Oh well sorry but I aint changing.

 

I would suggest you work some on making non religious friends. Chrisians just annoy the hell out of me now and actually seem demented. =)

 

Finally, I have ben meditating recently on the wonderful essence that is a human and it has been wonderful. No more craven begging for forgiveness from a God you would be a fool to trust. We are awesome. Maybe meditation would be a help to you in your healing. As John Lennon sang..."no one can harm you, feel your own pain!"

 

See you on the boards!

 

 

 

 

[Margee]

Margee

 

Thank you for that sincere heartfelt post

You have sure been through much agonizing about all this Bible stuff..you certianly cant say you never believed in the first place!

 

I guess my deconversion was a little less emotionally wrenching because I just could not get that worked up over a phony Biblical God that had obviously been a fiction...plus Christians had always seemed a little plastic and robot-like to me so it was not hard to get away from church.

 

I didnt throw away the idea of a God or transcendent consciousness, I just trashed the semitic, Herbrew invented Yaweh and of the course the Jesus persona of the NT (God 2.0 or the "good cop" persona).

 

I always saw it more from an intellectual point of view and when the facts undermined the credibility of the Bible, there went my "faith".

 

 

Thanks DrGuitar.

 

I have one friend in my life that told me even as a child she did not buy into the doctrine of any god. She is a highly intellectual woman who has followed her gut instincts all her life. I love to talk to her because she thought the whole idea was foolish right from the beginning. So there isn't any guilt, fear of god, fear of the devil, fear of any supernatural 'being'. This is a woman who knew right way that Santa Claus was her parents!! She is one of the most logical, rational woman I have ever met and I just love her. We have become friends.

 

I on the other hand fell for it all - ''hook, line and sinker''. I really believed in jesus more than anything. When I found out there wasn't a real Santa, I was devastated. Not so much with the Easter Bunny or the tooth fairy, but Santa Claus??? Of course there was a Santa Clause. He lived in the North Pole. They told me that and I believed it.

 

I once married a  born again christian man who filled my car up with balloons and sent me love poems on pizza's ....only to later beat me down, emotionally and physically in the marriage. That's how stupid and naïve I have been. Successful in some areas of my life and real dumb in others.

 

I'm glad you came through it safe and sound. Good for you. It's almost 3 years since I wrote this letter and I am hoping that this 'deconverting' is almost over for me. I've had to work through a lot of 'stuff', including rage at the whole thing. It has not been fun for me. But I know that I am coming to acceptance now and I actually get moments where I'm real comfortable being an atheist.

 

I think as long as EX-c exists...I will be visiting it everyday. It's just part of my life now. I could have never made it without this site.

 

I'm really glad you're here with us!! Thanks for the support! *hug*

[xliar]

I just don't know how to thank you all for the kind remarks about my letter. I have had some very sad things happen to me in my life (things that I can never tell) and I probably was at stage one,(thoughts) of a plan to end my life. Life without god makes more sense to me, because now I understand, 'wrong place-wrong time' and the whole question of 'where were you god, when this happened'? doesn't need to be discussed any further.

 

People can be monsters, people can be cruel, people are just animals and a lot are 'still back in the cave'.

 

Now I understand. I don't need to forgive. What a relief. I can let go. that's all I have to do. Now I just have to figure out how to be really happy and live life before I die and don't go to heaven. Yes,I am crying right now because this is so hard. Saying goodbye to the last thing you had hope in, is unbearable.

 

But I know I can do it - you guys are my 'god' right now. It's like your loving this unknown person you never met before, back to health. Thank you all so very much. From the bottom of my heart..................................

Now let me make sure I understand you correctly,,,if I have replaced "god" in your life perhaps you need my address inorder to----better yet,,, I should send you some self addressed "Tithe" envelopes. I mean after all, you don't expect a free ride now do you?? And while we're on the subject,,10% seems so out-dated,, how do you feel about---say-15? Just thought I'd toss that out there,,give it some thought ok? I guess I need to stop bull-shitting before I get deleted, if I haven't been already,,, Hi Margee, I'm Chris, and I love reading your letters and the replies and it aint been easy. I mean there's a lot! A lot of emotion and feelings and thoughts, anger, sadness, happiness, truth, lies, it's a book and I finaly got through it and now I'm waiting on the next chapter. I'm fairly new here. Found this place purely by accident and I've come here nearly every night since. It is hard to describe what has happened to me. If you call deconversion a journey, mine began about 10 years ago and if I've traveled 10 miles, I've covered 8 or 9 of em in the last 2 weeks. I'm serious, it's like I've been stuck in a giant fucking mud-hole. I didn't know anyone like you guys and I'm not sure why, but I wasn't looking for anyone. A lot of folks posting and commenting have used the term freedom to describe their deconversion. Well not for me, giving up the faith just left me pissed off big time,,,until now. Man, every day I feel a little more liberating freedom! I don't mean to get all mushy on you here, but I love this place! I love you guys! I find myself thinking about EX-C during the day when I'm working, about a thought I just had or what I read the night before. I'm still learning how to navigate these forums and I got me a dictionary and I've had fun and a few weeks ago if you'd told me I'd be doing this, I would've said you're full of shit! Ha! Anyway, it is absolutely wonderful to meet you !

[Margee]

Hi Margee, I'm Chris, and I love reading your letters and the replies and it aint been easy. I mean there's a lot! A lot of emotion and feelings and thoughts, anger, sadness, happiness, truth, lies, it's a book and I finaly got through it and now I'm waiting on the next chapter. I'm fairly new here. Found this place purely by accident and I've come here nearly every night since. It is hard to describe what has happened to me. If you call deconversion a journey, mine began about 10 years ago and if I've traveled 10 miles, I've covered 8 or 9 of em in the last 2 weeks. I'm serious, it's like I've been stuck in a giant fucking mud-hole. I didn't know anyone like you guys and I'm not sure why, but I wasn't looking for anyone. A lot of folks posting and commenting have used the term freedom to describe their deconversion. Well not for me, giving up the faith just left me pissed off big time,,,until now. Man, every day I feel a little more liberating freedom! I don't mean to get all mushy on you here, but I love this place! I love you guys! I find myself thinking about EX-C during the day when I'm working, about a thought I just had or what I read the night before. I'm still learning how to navigate these forums and I got me a dictionary and I've had fun and a few weeks ago if you'd told me I'd be doing this, I would've said you're full of shit! Ha! Anyway, it is absolutely wonderful to meet you !

xliar.......

 

Man- oh- man Chris, can I ever relate to what you are saying.. Welcome to the fun world of deconverting!! Lol

 

When I first discovered EX-c, I 'lurked' behind the scenes for a while before I got the guts to join. My mouth used to hang open as I read about hundreds on this site who questioned the Christian god like me. I honestly thought I was the only one who would DARE to question the bible. If you have read a lot of my posts, you will see that I drove the pastor up the wall with all my questions. I was told to 'get off the fence'; I was told that Satan had his hands on me; I was told that I had to totally 'get right' with god; I was told that believing in god was a 'faith walk'. They prayed for me to have more faith. I myself prayed every night to have more faith. Nothing was working. Right from the night I got 'saved' at 20 years old, I started questioning the book of Genesis because I intuitively knew in my heart that the god in that book looked like a stupid god to me?? Where was his 'head' when he thought up this plan?? Surely, he could have devised a better plan for his creation than what this book stated?

 

I had a clientele that would tell me horror story after horror story. One of my clients got the news that her only son fell off a cliff. Another son of my clients got stabbed to death. I listened to stories of horrible car accidents, cancer - you name it, I heard the story. I had tons of my own shit I was going through, waiting patiently for god to help me. And then I looked at the whole world and screamed one night to god, ''Where the fuck are you??''. Can you even see what's going on down here on earth??

 

I think I may be coming to the final stage of deconverting. I have been a very angry, depressed lady for the last 6 months. Ex-c has reassured me that this is a normal stage and I must go through it. I think this letter is part of my journey. I have to keep writing and it's people like you who help me to go on.

 

I am so glad you are here with us Chris. Keep posting all your fears and worries and stresses. Someone is always here to help you through whatever shit you are going through. I give you a big hug today. Thanks for being here for me!

 

Sincerely, Donna

[DrGuitar]

Margee

Your post only reinforces to me how idiotic and abusive the whole mess of Christianity is

 

God how were we so blind for so long??

 

Arent you happy to be on the path of truth?? wherever it leads you are out of the cave

[Margee]

Margee

Your post only reinforces to me how idiotic and abusive the whole mess of Christianity is

 

God how were we so blind for so long??

 

Arent you happy to be on the path of truth?? wherever it leads you are out of the cave

 

DrGuitar....I love the old saying that sometimes the truth hurts. Cause this so called truth of believing in Christianity has sure taken its toll on many peoples lives, hasn't it.  And in a way, finding out the truth that its a lie has hurt also. I wanted there to be a god so bad. I remember looking at the state of the world...the times we would bow our heads and pray for a country that was under attack or the starving children and I was questioning god while people were praying. I always said; where are you god!!! Please make an appearance!! This place called earth is a mess, please hurry and do something/anything to help....but no answers ever came.

 

The path of truth is liberating most of the time for me, but has left a hole in my soul that may never close over. I have to learn to live with that.

 

Thanks for being here and for all the encouragement. Best of everything to you in the coming New year.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I never mentioned it, Margee, but "Please Forgive Me" was the first post I ever read on this website.  It was what encouraged me to join up and do my bit.  Thanks for that.

[Margee]

I never mentioned it, Margee, but "Please Forgive Me" was the first post I ever read on this website.  It was what encouraged me to join up and do my bit.  Thanks for that.

 

Professor, If it was this letter that encouraged you to join Ex-c then I'm the happiest girl in the world today because having you here has added so much to this site. I want to take a second out to thank You for all your intelligent contributions and the encouragement that you have given me since you've been here. You're a gem.

 

The best of everything to you and your family in 2014. *hug*

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

I never mentioned it, Margee, but "Please Forgive Me" was the first post I ever read on this website.  It was what encouraged me to join up and do my bit.  Thanks for that.

 

Professor, If it was this letter that encouraged you to join Ex-c then I'm the happiest girl in the world today because having you here has added so much to this site. I want to take a second out to thank You for all your intelligent contributions and the encouragement that you have given me since you've been here. You're a gem.

 

The best of everything to you and your family in 2014. *hug*

 

You're the sweetest and strongest.

[Overcame Faith]

Thread opened for those who wanted to reply.

[Overcame Faith]

Sorry. For those who wanted to reply to this thread. A technical glitch. Just give a little time to work it out.

[Overcame Faith]

Glitch worked out. Feel free to post on this topic.

[Merlin]

Margee,  I was genuinely moved in my heart by what you had to say...  Thanks for your honesty.  I sincerely mean that.

[Margee]

Margee,  I was genuinely moved in my heart by what you had to say...  Thanks for your honesty.  I sincerely mean that.

 

Welcome to Ex-c Imperialblue!! I'm glad the letter helped in some small way. Good to have you here with us!! Keep posting!! 

 

I still stand by this letter as a validation to myself that there is no personal god on this earth. It will grieve me to the day i die. I don't get over lies easy and this one that I was born and brought up to believe has affected my life like no other lie I have been told. Some people are able to laugh it all off once they know the truth. I never found it to be funny or fun for me. 

 

Now comes the chance to look at ourselves and how to act in this new 'world view'. I am still stumbling along because I had wanted to please the christian god for so many years. I find it scary to be free. It gets better one baby step at a time. In lots of ways, I liked the christian me a lot better. I'm still trying to find out who i really am. I guess the best way to look at it is that we are all just human animals. We love, we hate, we do good and bad. We try to survive the best way we know how, hopefully not hurting anyone in the process. I guess the best thing to do is your best. That's all we can do today. 

 

Thanks for acknowledging the letter that I wrote 3 1/2 years ago. I'm so glad you are here with us!!

 

*hug*

[Margee]

Margee,

 

You write in a humble and modest way, but you express universal human sentiments. There is wisdom in your words. Your message illustrates how multi-faceted the experience is, especially the emotional aspect. What affects us deeply in an emotional sense truly touches us at the center of our humanity.

 

Many people, at different places in their journey, have difficulty now and then finding words to say what they feel. Your words help give a voice to other people's feelings -- and their thoughts. Your words help people find new and real meaning in their lives, as we all must carry on and remake ourselves, often not having a clue as to how. "Who am I now?" is a question that most of us surely must be asking ourselves, often. And we ask it of one another.

 

That's what we do on this site. We reach out to one another, as fellow humans, for a sense of identity and reality. You are helping so many other people in such powerful and effective ways, just by expressing your humanity honestly. You are encouraging and validating other people in their humanity.

 

Thank you so much for being you.

 

Human

 

Welcome to Ex-c Human!! So glad to see you on the board!!  

 

Thank you so much for the beautiful compliments Human. That made me cry yesterday.

 

The very best thing each of us can do here on Ex-c is be honest about what we are going through with this issue of Christianity and how it has fucked up our world view. Excuse my language, but I'm not the good little girl I used to try and be...Lol  I still want to know answers. I can't stand not having answers so I dig and dig and do tons of research until I am pretty sure of what I am satisfied with. I have to ask the members on the board if they too have changed who they are since de-converting. They tell me in which ways they have changed and I feel better. The cognitive dissonance was mind blowing for me. I also go strongly by my gut instincts now. Most of the time, I find my gut will tell me a true answer. I get a sick feeling in my stomach and that generally shows me that I'm on the right track when investigating my new world views. I just sit here and write what I am feeling. Some days, I wish I could turn back the hands of time and do everything different. My whole life might have been easier. If only I hadn't been lied to!! 

 

There is a part of me now that is super sensitive. It's like I have a radar machine that's goes off and tells me, ''This is bullshit''. I think a lot of things that I am seeing now are bullshit. I'm not very happy with the way the world is being 'runned'. (is there such a word? Lol) So I stay in my own little bubble and try my best to create some happiness there for me and others. De-converting has opened my eyes to many, many other things in life. My research took me on a journey of wanting to understand human behavior. This was while I studied evolution. I had never even considered human evolution before... so now, a lot of things make way more sense. Animals is what we are...with a consciousness to make decisions, right or wrong. This is my new dilemma. Of course, I know it's wrong to murder, steal, etc...... But my question is, Who is Margee exactly? I played 'people pleaser' for so many years of my life that I am just leaning now how to say NO. What a journey it is!

 

I am looking so forward to hearing more of your journey!! Glad to have you here!!

 

Big *hug* 

[Leo]

very nice. Very well done! Many of us talk about the rational objections, or the moral arguments, but you hit on the heart of things. I really appreciate your posts.

[Margee]

very nice. Very well done!  but you hit on the heart of things. I really appreciate your posts.

 

Hi LeoBirdMan! Welcome to Ex-c! Good to have you here with us. Thanks for the compliment LBM. Human suffering will always be my dilemma. A true god would have protected us from all the suffering we humans must go through. I always remember these foolish scriptures from the bible that I tried so hard to incorporate into my life so they would make sense to me when I was suffering  in my life (or somebody else was suffering) What a pile of bull!! Suffering did nothing but harden my once innocent heart. Learning to live again knowing that it's more about evolution really helps a bit. Thanks for being here my friend!!

 

 I Peter 4:12: “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.” Don’t think that this trial is not for you, because it is for you—to fix you or to change you! Some people call this “bad luck.” It has nothing to do with luck. It occurs because we are Christians, and as such, we need to face one trial or persecution at a time.

 

“Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.” II Timothy 3:12. We will suffer persecution because we are determined to live a godly life with Christ. Satan is very angry with us, and he is going to use anybody he can, even our families, to give us a hard time. Those who are loyal and obedient to God will be persecuted.

 

In Acts 5:41, we are told, “And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.” Some of us can disengage ourselves from the world and from leaders. But, because we do this, they will say that we are declaring war against them, and they will cause us much trouble and persecute us. Are we willing to go through shame for the sake of our God? Jesus suffered trial and shame for us. Did He have the victory? Yes, He did, because after His death, His Father resurrected Him and restored all to Him. 

 

In John 16:33, the Scriptures give a discussion Jesus had with the disciples: “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” 

 

Acts 14:22. We must go through these tribulations, because the kingdom of God awaits us. We must overcome trials as proof to all that God’s obedient children worship Him at all times. We must determine to willingly follow Christ. 

[StruggleWithin]

WOW I don't know how I missed this post but you have stated EXACTLY how I felt/still feel (to an extent, I am letting go easier now than I was in the beginning)

I have always been very blunt and honest, and a few of my christian friends would balk, but I insisted that to be less than honest was insane when god knows we aren't being honest!  Lying to myself is the worst feeling in the world.  My head might buy it for a time, but my stomach knows better!  If that makes sense?!

 

I too, begged god to give me something, anything to keep me believing.  I eventually decided that IF god exists he has NO interest in having me in the fold.  I

have also gotten to a point where I feel that IF the god of bible really does exist I don't WANT to worship him now.  I guess I did a 360 because all those things I studied and read that bothered me, and I pushed them away, and made all the typical excuses for ad nauseam, I cannot worship a god like that.

 

Years ago before I became a christian I considered myself atheist, but I didn't understand WHY I didn't believe.  I am one who wants to know the whys and hows of everything so I bought a bible.  I read it and read it and read it, then I read every christian book that explains the bible and the christian faith that I could get my hands on.  I have read the bible through completely, with many chapters read and studied over and over again.

I don't see how anyone can read it with an open mind and NOT come away disturbed, and thinking it is a crock!  I know so many christians who only read certain books of the bible, and have never read it through.  It is really easy to overlook things when you only read snippets here and there!  If you want to believe something badly enough, even the bad parts you can excuse away.  I did it, and I am deeply ashamed of my attitudes, and the way my beliefs, and wanting to please god, affected my words and actions

 

I have completely pulled away from my christian life.  I am an introvert, and don't mind being alone, so it hasn't been too difficult.  I do miss them, but I know from comments they have made about atheists/non believers that I would not be accepted (or if I were it would come at a cost and I am not willing to pay it)

 

I feel free in my head now that I am not constantly at odds with myself, and questioning every little mundane thought.  I also feel free now to like people as they are, without trying to please the tyrant who says this person or that person is an abomination etc.  I struggled with that very much because there are so many people I love and care about that I felt, in order to please god, I had to be against them  I would often say, why is one persons sin any worse than anothers?  Some people didn't like that way of thinking, but that was the only way I could justify still bothering with people they said I should be against!

Now I can just love them, and accept them, without that struggle in my head of whether god is pleased or not.

 

I still catch myself playing the what if game every now and then, but I do not believe in god at all anymore.  I am not angry at something that doesn't exist, but I am angry at the people who created, and continue to perpetuate this god to the detriment of others, and our freedoms (which it seems to me we have less and less of them).  

 

Argh, sorry I rambled on and on 

[StruggleWithin]

ugh I can't edit my post, I meant it seems like we have less and less freedoms.

 

And when I said why is one persons sin worse than anothers, I don't mean I believe what the person is doing is "sin" per se, but at the time I believed it was because that is what the bible said it was.

[Margee]

WOW I don't know how I missed this post but you have stated EXACTLY how I felt/still feel (to an extent, 

Strugglewithin.

You sound so much like me!! I enjoyed your post so much. We all land here with the same questions don't we? I am so glad you are here and I'm glad my letter helped you.  Welcome my friend! You are 'home' with the rest of us doubters!! It's good to know that you're not alone. I hope you stay awhile with us!!  Posts all your concerns...someone is always here for you. I wouldn't have made it without EX-c!

 

Sincerely,

Margee

[Woodsy]

Hi sweetie! I went back and read your letter which was the first thing I read when I came here almost a year and a half ago. Your letter really defines who I am and who I was. It also gives definition to my struggles. Thank you so much for putting into words what is in my heart and mind. It gives me strength to go on.

[Margee]

Hi sweetie! I went back and read your letter which was the first thing I read when I came here almost a year and a half ago. Your letter really defines who I am and who I was. It also gives definition to my struggles. Thank you so much for putting into words what is in my heart and mind. It gives me strength to go on.

 

Thanks Woodsy. My gawd hon, even I go back to read my own letter to keep reminding me every time the fear of hell comes back to haunt me. (which it still does) I still go through periods where I wonder to myself, ''What if I'm wrong''. So many on Ex-c seem to get 100% free of these fears but I'm not sure if that will ever happen to me. This makes taking my last breath even more terrifying. When my time is up, I would love so much to let go of this earth in peace and I am so afraid that I will die in terror because the thought of hell stills plagues my mind. Sometimes brainwashing takes forever to heal it seems.

 

I't's one of the reasons why I still love to read here everyday. Just about every post helps. The newcomers letters show me that I was not the only one in the world to question the christian god. The older I get, and the more I learn about evolution, the more I can see that humans needed to create a god of genocide to justify what they did to each other. The fight on earth still goes on between power hungry human animals. Humans made god in their image.

 

To me? The bible is a book about human behavior. Humans passed the buck and called it 'Yahweh'  which means ''I am that I am''. That describes power-hungry humans to me...... 'all powerful', greedy, self centered, smart and stupid....Lol  The god of love never existed. 

 

It's so good to see you Woodsy. I hope you are staying around for awhile. You always brighten my day!!

 

Big hug to you hon!