The On-going, 'can Of Worms'

[Kyle]

I remember when I was a hardcore Southern Baptist. One morning in Sunday School our teacher said not to let children see the man performing the "woman's" task and vice versa. i.e. The man wasn't suppose to be cleaning the house, doing the dishes, etc. He went on to say that when children see men performing the female duties of the house (and vice versa) that could create gender confusion for the child later in life. Even back then I had a W..T..F.. moment

So there must be a lot of homosexuals in professional cleaning companies and restaurants. You have a lot of male cleaners, washers, cooks, laundromat workers... In all those places, they must be extremely confused about their genders.

 

No, wait, I think I get it. A task is only manly and not-gay if you get paid for it, preferably big bucks. If you have to do it at home and not get paid from an employer for doing it, then it's a female task and will make you gay.

 

 

You nailed it. Exactly the mindset of those freaks

[Margee]

Why is it that men can be so relaxed when we women are goin' nuts because we feel that our work is never done? What is it in a man's brain that he is able to do this.Men seem to be able to relax so much more than women? Now I know some men are perfectionists around the house - inside and out (my dad was) but I do not have that in my life.

 

Since I am 'deconverting' I am looking at all the things I do for my man and I am feeling a little resentful. I did most of it all my life because I wanted to be the perfect 'godly wife'. And Now I've got this darlin' man so friggin' spoiled that I don't know how to stop this 'caretaking of your man'. He really is such a wonderful guy and I don't want to spend all my time nagging him. (and I think he knows this - the little bugger!) He's told me that he would do anything to help me, but he starts something and never finishes it! It drives me crazy!!

 

Like yesterday - I asked him to do his own laundry and he said: 'no problem'! He threw the first load in and then forgot about it. I reminded him. He threw it in the dryer and guess where it was this morning. All wrinkled in the clothes dryer!! I ended up running the dryer for 30 mins. to get the wrinkles out and I ended up folding it!!

 

I guess the best thing to do is leave it all alone and let him finish it himself! I always did hate these women and men 'roles' with housework!

 

I'm a cranky old women this morning!!

[MagickMonkey]

Why is it that men can be so relaxed when we women are goin' nuts because we feel that our work is never done? What is it in a man's brain that he is able to do this.Men seem to be able to relax so much more than women? Now I know some men are perfectionists around the house - inside and out (my dad was) but I do not have that in my life.

 

Since I am 'deconverting' I am looking at all the things I do for my man and I am feeling a little resentful. I did most of it all my life because I wanted to be the perfect 'godly wife'. And Now I've got this darlin' man so friggin' spoiled that I don't know how to stop this 'caretaking of your man'. He really is such a wonderful guy and I don't want to spend all my time nagging him. (and I think he knows this - the little bugger!) He's told me that he would do anything to help me, but he starts something and never finishes it! It drives me crazy!!

 

Like yesterday - I asked him to do his own laundry and he said: 'no problem'! He threw the first load in and then forgot about it. I reminded him. He threw it in the dryer and guess where it was this morning. All wrinkled in the clothes dryer!! I ended up running the dryer for 30 mins. to get the wrinkles out and I ended up folding it!!

 

I guess the best thing to do is leave it all alone and let him finish it himself! I always did hate these women and men 'roles' with housework!

 

I'm a cranky old women this morning!!

 

That's exactly what you need to do. He hasn't yet developed the habit of doing laundry. It might not have even occured to him that he needs to fold his laundry as soon as it is finished to prevent wrinkles. I know I wouldn't think about that if I were doing the laundry, and, of course, I used to do my laundry all the time when I was single. If he hasn't done laundry in years, he might not even remember to separate out his whites. I remember not knowing to do this. I wondered why my white t-shirts, socks, and undies were a little off white.

 

EDIT: Forgot to finish my point. Don't do anything for him. Let him ask questions about why his clothes are wrinkled, shrunken, etc. Be informative, but don't do it for him. Then, once he develops the habbit, he'll be washing his own clothes like a pro.

[LivingLife]

You know, I have been mulling over what exactly to say in this thread. I think I fall into the category of lazy man. When wife and I first moved in together 25 years ago, I had no problems doing the washing, the kitchen work etc and we both worked and I had been a bachelor looking after myself for awhile anyway.

 

Then along came different circumstances and we got a servant and that eased the burden. Babies came later and my responsibilities at work grew and worked a lot of overtime those early years.

 

From that caring sharing dude, I devolved to the lazy dude I am. I gave up my perfectionism a long time ago as that is not how my wife is and we both climb in when it gets too much and when the kids don't want to help.

 

I do not think that this is a condition of male superiority. I do think women and men are differently wired. Like when the babies came, I shared in the burden and also got up in the evenings. As the kids got older so too did my night duties wane. Roles changed and where I used to cook, that is something I totally do not do now except for BBQ's.

 

I must say, my wife does relax a lot these days compared to say 5 years ago.

 

I do not think there is a universal answer but I will admit, during my woo woo years I did turn into a bit of an asshole with the priest in the house shit. In spite of this, I never ever treated my lady or kids like a POS as I witnessed others doing.

[Margee]

Why is it that men can be so relaxed when we women are goin' nuts because we feel that our work is never done? What is it in a man's brain that he is able to do this.Men seem to be able to relax so much more than women? Now I know some men are perfectionists around the house - inside and out (my dad was) but I do not have that in my life.

 

Since I am 'deconverting' I am looking at all the things I do for my man and I am feeling a little resentful. I did most of it all my life because I wanted to be the perfect 'godly wife'. And Now I've got this darlin' man so friggin' spoiled that I don't know how to stop this 'caretaking of your man'. He really is such a wonderful guy and I don't want to spend all my time nagging him. (and I think he knows this - the little bugger!) He's told me that he would do anything to help me, but he starts something and never finishes it! It drives me crazy!!

 

Like yesterday - I asked him to do his own laundry and he said: 'no problem'! He threw the first load in and then forgot about it. I reminded him. He threw it in the dryer and guess where it was this morning. All wrinkled in the clothes dryer!! I ended up running the dryer for 30 mins. to get the wrinkles out and I ended up folding it!!

 

I guess the best thing to do is leave it all alone and let him finish it himself! I always did hate these women and men 'roles' with housework!

 

I'm a cranky old women this morning!!

 

That's exactly what you need to do. He hasn't yet developed the habit of doing laundry. It might not have even occured to him that he needs to fold his laundry as soon as it is finished to prevent wrinkles. I know I wouldn't think about that if I were doing the laundry, and, of course, I used to do my laundry all the time when I was single. If he hasn't done laundry in years, he might not even remember to separate out his whites. I remember not knowing to do this. I wondered why my white t-shirts, socks, and undies were a little off white.

 

EDIT: Forgot to finish my point. Don't do anything for him. Let him ask questions about why his clothes are wrinkled, shrunken, etc. Be informative, but don't do it for him. Then, once he develops the habbit, he'll be washing his own clothes like a pro.

 

I'm gonna' try some of this stuff Monk and see what happens!

[Kyle]

I do everything in and out at my house. My wife will occassionally do the laundry. That is it. I'm beginning to be resentful about the whole situation. She will bitch about how cluttered the house gets, but she never does anything about it. Now she is on this kick about, "this house is too big and it just overwhelms me." Trying to put pressure on me to move into something smaller. I love my house. I love that I have a great yard for my kid and dogs. I have put my blood sweat and tears into this place.

 

For what? For her to lay around and not do shit but have the audacity to bitch about "my house is too big." There are people out there who would love to have a house like this. Those that would appreciate it.

 

I'm really not sure why I went off on this rant. I guess just to get it off my chest. I don't know how much longer I can live with her.

[Margee]

I do everything in and out at my house. My wife will occassionally do the laundry. That is it. I'm beginning to be resentful about the whole situation. She will bitch about how cluttered the house gets, but she never does anything about it. Now she is on this kick about, "this house is too big and it just overwhelms me." Trying to put pressure on me to move into something smaller. I love my house. I love that I have a great yard for my kid and dogs. I have put my blood sweat and tears into this place.

 

For what? For her to lay around and not do shit but have the audacity to bitch about "my house is too big." There are people out there who would love to have a house like this. Those that would appreciate it.

 

I'm really not sure why I went off on this rant. I guess just to get it off my chest. I don't know how much longer I can live with her.

 

 

Let's not let our spouses read these rants this morning Kyle!! Mine stepped right over a bag of garbage this morning!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!

[MagickMonkey]

I do everything in and out at my house. My wife will occassionally do the laundry. That is it. I'm beginning to be resentful about the whole situation. She will bitch about how cluttered the house gets, but she never does anything about it. Now she is on this kick about, "this house is too big and it just overwhelms me." Trying to put pressure on me to move into something smaller. I love my house. I love that I have a great yard for my kid and dogs. I have put my blood sweat and tears into this place.

 

For what? For her to lay around and not do shit but have the audacity to bitch about "my house is too big." There are people out there who would love to have a house like this. Those that would appreciate it.

 

I'm really not sure why I went off on this rant. I guess just to get it off my chest. I don't know how much longer I can live with her.

 

Tell her she's free to move if she wants.

[Kyle]

 

Let's not let our spouses read these rants this morning Kyle!! Mine stepped right over a bag of garbage this morning!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!

 

I'm almost beyond caring

 

Tell her she's free to move if she wants.

 

I have. I think she thinks I'm kidding

[HRDWarrior]

 

What do you think about this whole subject?

 

That this is probably the primary reason that my deconversion started - the fact that I was instantly "less" - that my opinions, knowledge, abilities, skills, and what not were less valuable than a man's simply because of the diddly bits I was born with (when I sure as hell did NOT want to be a female).

 

I hated this entire idea even when I was a Christian, and when I was dating/courting, I insisted on finding a man who would be willing to see me as just as important in our relationship as himself - my career just as important, my views, my opinions, etc. My mother never fully agreed with me (at least verbally) but I think deep down she did - but the brainwashing was a bit too much for her, and she to this day tries to force herself to accept something that just grates against everything she is.

 

 

And to add, my DH and I have a pretty great relationship. Like any, I'm sure we both have things we would like the other person to change, but none of it is all that significant to our overall well being. We've split up the house chores into a plan that works for us - since there are no kids involved, it's a bit easier, but he does the more frequent but less time consuming chores (dishes, laundry, cooking, garbage) and I do the less frequent but more time consuming ones like vacuuming, dusting, cleaning the bathroom, etc. Outdoor chores are relatively split, and we both work on our own motorcycles.

[MagickMonkey]

.... since there are no kids involved, it's a bit easier ...

 

Are you kidding me? The whole point of having kids is to have little servants to do the chores for you.

 

Outdoor chores are relatively split, and we both work on our own motorcycles.

 

You have a motorcycle and you do your own work on it. That is so cool!!!

[HRDWarrior]

.... since there are no kids involved, it's a bit easier ...

 

Are you kidding me? The whole point of having kids is to have little servants to do the chores for you.

 

Outdoor chores are relatively split, and we both work on our own motorcycles.

 

You have a motorcycle and you do your own work on it. That is so cool!!!

 

Why of course I do my own work

 

Me and my bike (just cause I love the damn thing so much):

 

[Kyle]

Sharp Ninja HRD. What year is it? I can't tell if it is a 6 or a 10 from that pic. I agree about working on your own bike. No one else touches mine.

 

Here is my baby. We kinda match

[HRDWarrior]

Threadjack!

 

Sharp Ninja HRD. What year is it? I can't tell if it is a 6 or a 10 from that pic. I agree about working on your own bike. No one else touches mine.

 

Here is my baby. We kinda match

 

Sweet, but when you gonna swap out that ugly-ass stock exhaust ?! Mine's an '05 10R - first gen,..angry little bike, but boy has my riding/smoothness improved with it (course, if it hadn't, I probably would've killed myself by now lol!). My other bike is an oldie but a goodie - '99 ZX6R, mostly my hubby's bike now though since I got the 10. Someday I'll have a new bike so I'm not always fixing someone else's problems as seems to be the case with most any used bike, at least in this area.

[Kyle]

Continued threadjack (Sorry Margee)

 

I had an 06 10. Talk about a beast of a bike. And your first gen is even more of a beast.

 

As for my can, I swore I wouldn't do any major mods til it's paid off. I got $321 to go. Then it's getting a Yoshi RS4

[Margee]

Continued threadjack (Sorry Margee)

 

I had an 06 10. Talk about a beast of a bike. And your first gen is even more of a beast.

 

As for my can, I swore I wouldn't do any major mods til it's paid off. I got $321 to go. Then it's getting a Yoshi RS4

 

It's o.k. guys - My husband is a biker. He's the manager of a motorcycle shop in our city. I tried to become a biker........... but.......... The helmet messes up my hair!!

[Kyle]

Continued threadjack (Sorry Margee)

 

I had an 06 10. Talk about a beast of a bike. And your first gen is even more of a beast.

 

As for my can, I swore I wouldn't do any major mods til it's paid off. I got $321 to go. Then it's getting a Yoshi RS4

 

It's o.k. guys - My husband is a biker. He's the manager of a motorcycle shop in our city. I tried to become a biker........... but.......... The helmet messes up my hair!!

 

So you have a good understanding of my obsession

[HRDWarrior]

Continued threadjack (Sorry Margee)

 

I had an 06 10. Talk about a beast of a bike. And your first gen is even more of a beast.

 

As for my can, I swore I wouldn't do any major mods til it's paid off. I got $321 to go. Then it's getting a Yoshi RS4

 

It's o.k. guys - My husband is a biker. He's the manager of a motorcycle shop in our city. I tried to become a biker........... but.......... The helmet messes up my hair!!

 

HAHA, so you get "it"...I quite caring about helmet hair a long time ago - riding is just way too much fun to be concerned with such a silly thing.

[buffettphan]

"Beware of those whose hair is never mussed."

 

--from one of those Quote-A-Day calendars I had about 20 years ago. I made it into a bumpersticker and put on my convertible. I also printed a copy and put it in my bathroom. It cheers me up on a bad-hair day.

[Margee]

"Beware of those whose hair is never mussed."

 

--from one of those Quote-A-Day calendars I had about 20 years ago. I made it into a bumpersticker and put on my convertible. I also printed a copy and put it in my bathroom. It cheers me up on a bad-hair day.

 

O.K guys - you know I'm a hairdresser and hairdressers don't like to get their hair mussed up!! I love that quote and I am going to print it out for my shop!

[Kyle]

Oh...... that explains it

[renoliz]

I am with the women who don't want messed up hair:) Seriously, 4-wheeling is my thing and I will do it until I am too old to shift gears and lock in the hubs.

 

As for the men vs. women. I think that women in our society have been devalued. I would like out point out that the similarities in men and women are huge and the differences within each sex really huge. Some women are pansies and so are some guys. Some women are hard asses and so are some guys. The proportions of each within men and women might be different but the differences are probably not as huge as people in our society make them out to be. All people want love, respect and such.

 

What this society does is totally devalue women's roles. Like being a peace maker or loving to cook and have a well run household automatically makes you less worthy in a decision making situation. Like our hormones are a total detriment and estrogen makes us whacko but testosterone makes you super smart and worthy of making all the decisions. Men are so much more likely to commit violent offences but women don't know how to run the world?

 

Personally, I think too much is made of men and women being different. We are different but so are people in lesbian and gay relationships and they are the same sex. Just because their are some sexual differences does not make men or women superior and over the others. We all have merit.

[Galien]

My dad left my family when I was nine. I was the eldest girl of four children with a mother crippled by depression. I stepped up and became the head of the family. I am not even slightly interested in the domestic realm. I am an administrator and my talents lie in accounting and logistics. I also don't like being told what to do by those who are clearly not as smart as me. In church, that covered just about everyone.

 

Consequently I spent my whole time fighting with idiots who tried to squish me into an apron. The standing joke in my church was that I had a pair. As it turned out, they were finally right about something

[dichotomy]

I've only ever ridden a motorbike twie and both times involved me going off a verge and almost plummiting into a riverstream. Never again.

 

That this is probably the primary reason that my deconversion started - the fact that I was instantly "less" - that my opinions, knowledge, abilities, skills, and what not were less valuable than a man's simply because of the diddly bits I was born with (when I sure as hell did NOT want to be a female).

 

It isn't the reason my deconversion started but that is exactly how I felt - that I was less important because of my sex. I was brought up to think of myself as an equal but by the time I was considering marriage and involved in a Penty church I was being spoken to like a second class citizen and told that my job was to be a 'submissive wife not a strong one'. Both my husband and I quite rightly thought this was a load of bull, but we didn't realise how much we took on board subconsciously.

 

It's only since deconverting that we've realised how much my husband took control of our family and ours decisions, how little he listened to me and how no matter how much I do around the house and with the children, the fact that he occasionally changes a nappy or washes up makes him an amazing postmodern husband and father! The fact that I sometimes complain or expect a bit more support both practically and emotionally is unreasonable (according to his family!) We both think that some of this is just to do with who he is, but we think more of it comes from his own upbringing and the teaching we received in the church, as well as society in general of course.

 

As a woman I feel damned whatever I do or don't do, according to the general rule of thumb in society I'm expected to be a fulltime mother who devotes her life to her children, be a school governor, have a spotless house, look well dressed and made up, have creative and constructive activities outside the home as wel as doing something fo a local charity *and* have some sort of ongoing career lined up if I'm to be considered successful and fulfilled as a woman. These things are not compatible all at the same time. My husband gets away with working, washing up occasionally, taking the kid to the park and going out for a drink with a few friends once in a while....