Rant Of A Married Atheist Married To A Fundie

[freespirit]

Not sure what you mean by "emotional affair". Have all her affairs been emotional? If so, I don't personally see that as being unfaithful in the same way as if she is sleeping around.

 

An emotional affair is another form of infidelity that consists of someone being emotionally intimate with someone other than their spouse. Physical affairs may or may not include intimate emotion. Some feel emotional affairs are more damaging to trust in the realtionship due to the very nature of it being non-physical.

 

I know what an "emotional affair" is.....I was asking lawlbringer what HE meant by that. I think emotional affairs, although they are a problem, they are often an excuse for leaving a relationship rather than BECOMING what your partner needs emotionally. Just my opinion.

[Centauro]

Thanks guys and gals. I started contributing to the site again:)

 

Anyways, we got into a heated debate on Sat. I do not know why I even bother trying to explain in my words how I do not believe.

 

At one point in the conversation she said that due to my lack of theological training I couldn't be right. She mentioned that "how can theologians who spend a lifetime studying the Bible be wrong". Geez seriously? She explained to me that I should learn Greek and Hebrew to understand the Bible. Really? Why didnt an all knowing God not foresee this? Do I really need to be a theologian and versed in Greek and Hebrew to understand. Seriously, no. The arguments she was coming up in countering me with were ridiculous.

 

Then came the argument about what motivation do I have to do good? What is my purpose in life. Well hell I am in the Marine Corps and at even given day I may be in a 3rd world country on a deployment. I have seen real oppression, poverty, hate. I am very appreciative of the great life we have in America and in other countries that are evolving to this day. I do not need a book for me to be a "moral" person. Yeah I know Christians do a lot in regards to missions and whatnot but there are strings attached. I look at humanist organizations with much more respect that do good without a religious motivation. Why would these evil humanist ever try to help the needy in some 3rd world country?

 

I do not know why I even try to explain. It's like talking to a wall.

 

My children are 3 and 6, both have birthdays coming up in spring. My son got saved while in Charlotte while we were separated. Its funny me and my son was watching some discovery channel and I asked him how dinosaurs became extinct. He looks at me and says "didn't a meteor come out of the sky or something". I was like, what, where did you here that at? I was waiting for him to say noahs flood something. He did not remember but I was non the less impressed. Very smart boy. Wife no longer doing homeschool so I hope he gets a unbiased education.

 

 

Lawlbringer,

 

 

I am sorry for your situation, I can truly empathize. I have been married for 30 years, for the last 20 my wife has been been a rabid fundamentalist. We have 2 kids also, they were around the same age as yours when my wife was born again. FWIW, I have some advice...do with it what you want. I don't know the specifics of your situation, but after literally years of researching fundy behavior and the dynamics involved, I may save you some time and effort.

 

1. Be true to yourself. Hold the line on your beliefs. If you don't you will just end up angry and resentful. AMHIK. For 10 years I tried to placate her extreme beliefs, doing fundy damage control with the kids etc, and it only pissed me off. Once I drew the line, I felt better. She was angry, but she was angry anyway (because I wasn't a true fundy). I was willing to let the chips fall where they may, ie divorce. She didn't want a divorce, but has really backed off in getting me to go to church and having our lives revolve around her fundy activities. Sounds like your wife is not willing to do that..so be it. You have to start thinking about your health and your kids health.

 

2. Start being proactive and not reactive. It sounds like your wife is a master manipulator, as mine was/is.

I HIGHLY recommend a book called "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Also a book by Janice Woititz called "Adult Children of Alcoholics". Even if there is no alcoholism involved in your situation, it can give great insight into the addictive (to religion) behaviors and how to deal with them. These books have helped me a great deal. Once you take away her attempts to control, she will be powerless in effecting your world. It will not be easy, and she will fight like a pit bull to gain back her control. But once you recognize the dynamic, you will see things much more clearly. Take a step back when a volatile situation starts and look at your actions. Are you reacting? If so, recognize it and deal with it...on your terms, not hers.

 

3. Forget about having a cogent, logical discussion regarding religion and her beliefs. Your wife has made an emotional decision to shape her world. Any threat to that world will be met full force, as she needs to protect her psyche, her world view. It is safe for her, and truthfully she doesn't give a shit about anybody who lives in "the world" who is not willing to be fundy. She views you as a threat to her and her children. My wife went so far as to tell me I was demon possessed, had no morals and was hell bound. That was years ago, and it was a turning point in my marriage. That was when I realized she was lost from me and the odds of her returning to the once sweet girl I married were slim. I did not give up on the marriage, but I lost a trust that will most likely never return. She chose a god/religion over someone willing to do anything for her. I know my wife realizes that, and she walks a fine line when she pushes her fundy stuff, but all it takes is a look from me and she backs off. I refuse to debate, or engage in any religious talk and she knows not to push me, as I change the subject or just get up and excuse myself. I will not react to the bullshit anymore.

You hit the nail on the head about "talking to a wall"...because you ARE! I wasted YEARS, thinking I could have a dialog about her weird beliefs. Don't make the same mistake.

 

4. Research books on religious addiction, bible idolatry and religious abuse. I wish I had years ago, it would have made things much easier for me, helping me understand the minds of some of the morons I have had to deal with.

 

 

My apologies if this seems a bit disjointed. As I write this my hands are actually shaking, I get so angry and frustrated for having to deal with this crap. I only hope my experience can help you avoid some of the classic pitfalls in dealing with hyper religious people. The more I read, the more I am convinced that hardcore fundies have a lot of unresolved issues and until they face them, have some intense self awareness, they will make life miserable for all around them. My life is good, even though I have to deal with this on a daily basis. My kids turned out great, they got a real education on fundamentalism and are in tune to the bullshit.

There is hope for you and your kids. Get informed and it will help immensely. Good luck. Hope this helps.

[LuxAeterna]

I used to be fundie and my husband wasn't quite fundie. I think he just went through the motions to please me. He did what was expected of him. However, if he was anything like me back when I was a fundie there would have been problems following my deconversion. Thankfully, he had doubts himself that he didn't bring to light until after I brought up my journey away from the faith, for fear that I'd get upset and all hell would break loose. He deconverted shortly after I did. I think he was a closet skeptic all along. We joke about it.

 

P.S., I'm surprised to see someone on here (or anywhere that isn't a military/USMC site) that lives in Jacksonville, NC. I must say, I really, really don't like Jacksonville. At all. I apologize if you're a native. Thank bob we live in Wilmington.

[Lawlbringer]

Well, things on my end are calming down. I have some time so I thought I would respond to a few replies. I have a counseling session scheduled for Wed which I am really looking forward to!!

 

FreeSpirit - Yes, they were emotional affairs. They all consisted of at least kissing (whatever that means). I have asked her if she had sex but she always said no. It is hard asking someone who has cheated to be truthful with you when you ask details. Keep in mind that I found out the first 3 affairs on Valentines day, 2008. I just started recruiting and out of the blue she wrote me a letter and gave it to me before I went to work. On the outside it said "do not read until you get home in the driveway". I did not think much of it since we have always traded letters etc. Now, before I got the "letter" I have caught her emailing strange men, ex boyfriends, instant messenger...but she always told me that there was nothing going on etc but my instincts said otherwise. I started to have trust issues. No matter what I did starting early in our relationship I felt like I was failing her. I always made the point to do the little things; saying "I love you", hugging her, helping around the house, changing million of diapers, going out on dates, going to church with her and trying to be "the spiritual leader" etc but no matter what I did it was not enough or I did it wrong. She use to say that it wasn't enough to say "I love you" she wanted me to look deep into her eyes, touch her face and with great passion say "I LOVE YOU". Anyways, I know I am responsible for my mistakes in this marriage.

 

Back to the letter. She told me that she wrote the letter because "God" was working on her and she just had to get it out in the open. I remember that night extremely sad asking her why tell me. I had no idea! She said she was trying to be more pure or some BS. The letter stated she was sorry and that she had kissed three guys starting very early in our marriage while she was in school up until a year before I got the letter. Her third affair involved another Marine she met at the pool on base. They hooked up about 45 minutes from our house. They went to a secluded part on base, WITH MY 2 YR OLD SON IN THE BACK SEAT, and almost had sex. I never got a good explanation of what "almost had sex mean". I know Marines, I know guys, especially guys who would risk this behavior. I do not see a "guy" not going all the way. Anyways, she just said that i guess she had a skirt on and she was mentally ready to have sex and he had his dick out. Shit, this stuff is making me sick right now thinking about it.

 

So with that letter I found out she had three affairs. We just moved to Michigan, thousand of miles away from family. I just started the hardest duty in the Marine Corps, recruiting. I told my boss the next day I was going through some major turmoil and sucked it up and did my duty. To me everything was swept under a rug. In my lowest point, as in all the lowest points in our marriage I would find "god" in hopes I could become the man that she wanted. I know now that was very "codependent" of me to think that way.

 

Her fourth affair was a total EA. Bad bad bad bad. I think she never really tried to understand the hurt I felt. I believe that her faith negates her ever truly understanding the pain she has caused me. I could tell her I am done tomorrow and she wouldn't even care. She has never fought for me.

 

Before I met her at around 21 I started to save and invest my money, I still do today, just not as much as I would like to. I have helped her a lot financially. I have paid off school debt, helped her not get her car repoed when we were dating, paid off thousands in credit cards, paid off a loan that she cosigned for years before she met me. I had to come up with about $7k or they were going to take her to court. I have always been responsible with money and it has enabled us to live in somewhat of a good life. If we have had fights over money it comes from tithing. I would try to get her to get excited about our future if we could just save a little and prepare for it accordingly, but she looked at accumulating wealth in this lifetime as waste. Why save and invest when you have heaven ready for you. When she wanted to tithe 10% of our income a couple of years into our marriage I was upset. I mean extremely upset. So coupled with my childhood (Pentecostal) and trying to come to grips with being back into that lifestyle I struggled with giving money let alone thousands of dollars a month. Yet, I did. I was made to feel guilty. If you do not tithe you wont be blessed. If you dint tithe bad things will happen. I look back at tax statements that the church gives to you (I think it is funny that you give money to church and they give you a statement at the end of the year for tax purposes) and see 10s of thousands of dollars thrown away and I feel sick. They never helped with paying my bills. And to think that the 10% tithe rule is all BULL SHIT. Trying showing my wife that but she cannot even see that.

 

I look back on the past 8 years and see that no matter what happens I have grown as a man. I have been through hell and still survived. I remember after the 4th affair not eating and sleeping for a week and just feeling like I was in a bad dream.

 

Centauro- Thanks for your advice. I can relate to everything you are saying. I read "Codependent No More" and it really helped me. I will read that other book you mentioned. I can relate to what you said about your children. That is one thing about my deconversion that has helped me. Now that I am no longer a Christian I can go to sources outside the church/bible for advice. Before I would never think about going to a counselor or reading some secular literature. I know not everyone thinks this way but I was around people that believe god is all knowing, all powerful, healer, redeemer, the alpha and omega etc etc. If God cannot heal me then no one can. Now I am free to explore who I really am. I am free to seek counseling. I am free!!!!

 

Right now we ares till together. I am being nice to her. I do not argue about her beliefs. If she wants to talk about it then I am game. We went on a date last week and the week before that we went out as a family. I am going away for two months in a week or two. That is another thing I am getting tired of the Marines. I will have 5 years to retirement after this enlistment but I am fed up. My views have changed so much that I dont feel I fit in anymore. I want to go to school and earn my degree. My energies, I feel, are best suited someplace else. I dint know what I am going to do. I am hoping counseling can help me see more clearly and make the best decision.

 

Thanks for reading and offering advice.

[Lawlbringer]

I used to be fundie and my husband wasn't quite fundie. I think he just went through the motions to please me. He did what was expected of him. However, if he was anything like me back when I was a fundie there would have been problems following my deconversion. Thankfully, he had doubts himself that he didn't bring to light until after I brought up my journey away from the faith, for fear that I'd get upset and all hell would break loose. He deconverted shortly after I did. I think he was a closet skeptic all along. We joke about it.

 

P.S., I'm surprised to see someone on here (or anywhere that isn't a military/USMC site) that lives in Jacksonville, NC. I must say, I really, really don't like Jacksonville. At all. I apologize if you're a native. Thank bob we live in Wilmington.

 

 

I hate Jacksonville, NC. I swear every other radio station is some gospel station.lol I think I need to get out of the Marines. Will have 15 years in after this enlistment. I honeslty do not care about "retirement check". Money is not everything to me.

[Vendredie]

I used to be fundie and my husband wasn't quite fundie. I think he just went through the motions to please me. He did what was expected of him. However, if he was anything like me back when I was a fundie there would have been problems following my deconversion. Thankfully, he had doubts himself that he didn't bring to light until after I brought up my journey away from the faith, for fear that I'd get upset and all hell would break loose. He deconverted shortly after I did. I think he was a closet skeptic all along. We joke about it.

 

P.S., I'm surprised to see someone on here (or anywhere that isn't a military/USMC site) that lives in Jacksonville, NC. I must say, I really, really don't like Jacksonville. At all. I apologize if you're a native. Thank bob we live in Wilmington.

 

 

I hate Jacksonville, NC. I swear every other radio station is some gospel station.lol I think I need to get out of the Marines. Will have 15 years in after this enlistment. I honeslty do not care about "retirement check". Money is not everything to me.

Hey, I go to UNC-Wilmington. I hate driving through Jacksonville and New Bern without my CDs and iPod because all there is, is gospel stations!

 

Before I came here I lived around Hampton Roads and had all of its good stations saved on my radio. When I came here my favorite station was now a gospel station. Pissed me off. At least Wilmington's alternative station is decent- far better, in fact, than Hampton Roads'.

 

As for your marriage problems- I may be a naive, inexperienced 19 year old college student, but why didn't you ditch her after she revealed the affairs? I'm not blaming you for anything but that just doesn't make sense to me.

[LuxAeterna]

 

 

I hate Jacksonville, NC. I swear every other radio station is some gospel station.lol I think I need to get out of the Marines. Will have 15 years in after this enlistment. I honeslty do not care about "retirement check". Money is not everything to me.

 

 

We stick to the rock stations. I can't stand gospel. Are you done with RD? When do you complete your time on station?

[freespirit]

Hey Lawlbringer,

 

Thank you for responding to my inquiries. I am sorry that I questioned you. I just believe that SOME people use the "emotional affair" thing as an excuse. However, what you mention went from the emotional to the physical, sex or no sex, however you want to define that. She definitely crossed some boundaries and I can see why you would distrust. Sad.

 

I have also read the books by Janet Woititz. Good books and they helped me when I was a fundie. My Dad was an alcoholic and I was a true blue totally sold fundie. The book Toxic Faith also helped me.

 

Lawl, I will pray for you (in sincerity.....if you do not like prayer, think of it as good wishes) and your family. Maybe the counselor will help you sort your feelings out. I wish you and your family the best.

[freespirit]

BTW, about your retirement in the Marines......think long and carefully before you leave. Retirement is only 5 years away. Don't make a decision you will regret and I mean that BOTH ways. Leaving may be the best choice you could make. Or the worst.

[MagickMonkey]

BTW, about your retirement in the Marines......think long and carefully before you leave. Retirement is only 5 years away. Don't make a decision you will regret and I mean that BOTH ways. Leaving may be the best choice you could make. Or the worst.

 

I almost gave the same advice. But keep in mind that being an active duty Marine means he can be stationed anywhere, even out of the country. This can make it much more difficult for him to get joint custody of his kids or to even get good visitation.

[Lawlbringer]

Vendredie - I ask myself that same question. I wish it was black and white for me back then. For one, after she confessed to the affairs I tried to chalk it up to a mistake she had made and that we could work through it somehow. We also have 2 kids so that definitely played a role in my decision to stay. I agree that you should not stay just for the kids.

 

I was not an atheist then. I mean I had doubts about everything but I never really looked into my faith with reason. It is hard to explain, I seriously thought there was a God but i wasn't totally sold out on the idea. Because of this I would try to draw closer to God when my wife would have affairs. As I redevoted myself back to Christ I would have a new vigor for our marriage. I looked at the institution as God ordained and not letting man come between.

 

Looking back now I wish I would of stuck up for myself more. Because of my reaction I don't think she respected me...hence her 4th affair. I think I had to grow as a person too. I know I was very codependent. There are a lot of things I would of done different.

 

Freespirit - it's ok you asked that question. No I am not using the affairs as an excuse. I am seeking help on wed. What bothers me is the future. Too be worried about the future is no way for a marriage to last/work but I am worried. I know in my past where my allegiances were but I can't say the same for the wife. Her fundamentalism concerns me also.

 

MagickMonkey - I know...5 yrs is not long at all. I will most likely stay. I just get frustrated some days. I really want to start back up with school after not being able to go for 3 yrs(recruiting duty). I just got on station in Nov so I won't be going anywhere...besides we r broke.lol

 

Me and the wife are getting along. I feel really good about myself because I am not trying to be something I am not. If I do good for my wife I do it because I want to do good. I do housework, help with the kids, watch movies with her, spend time..etc. I don't have to read the bible, pray a certain way, devotions, church, etc. During my free time I learn more about myself and the world I live in. I try to be the best damn father I can be while doing damage control. I am not like "no there is no God kids". I want to foster a hunger within them to search for truth. I want then to be ok with being skeptical.

 

Thanks for the books suggestions. I can never get enough good books to read. Love my Kindle!