Another Experience With Suffering

[walker]

In the Old Testament, Suffering is all a tool to control people. "Do what I say or I'll let people invade you"

 

"do what I say or I'll make you eat your babies"

 

In the New Testament it is because of sin or lack of faith.

 

Modern Christianity says "Suffering is in the world because sin is in the world". That is a mutation of what the Bible says. The god of the bible, when seen objectively, sees torture as an art form and delights in its perfection.

I would say it is “Follow me to be strong” - strong in all ways (physically, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually). And - “If you’re not strong your enemies will invade and defeat you, and you will suffer greatly.”

[walker]

From my daughter:

 

"I know it's a Christianese saying to say that people will let you down, but God never will - I know what it's like to have people thoughtlessly throw that phrase at you when you're feeling completely alone and God doesn't seem to be there. But the thing is, though I thought I longed for people to help and support me, they would never have been able to give me what I really wanted. I wanted God. When I was done looking everywhere else for support, and when I was done throwing a tantrum, He was there.

 

 

"Now I have a friend going through a similar thing, and I'm so grateful that she can come to me and find someone who will listen and not just throw a hollow phrase at her. But though she knows my story, I tell her that this a process she needs to go through and that these are questions she needs to ask. It's really painful, but I'm not the one who can take the pain away. I'm probably not even going to be able to help her feel better because I'm not the one she wants answers from. However, I can tell her, and anyone else who's struggling, that there is another side. God remains loving and true, and the deeper relationship I now have with Him was worth the pain."

 

And when I calmed down god wasn't there.

 

God lets us all down because he either isn't there or doesn't care. You have a deep relationship with the pure heart of yourself. What I believed to be god let me down in more ways that I could ever describe, and the pain is soul destroying. That isn't love. I don't know if you are a parent or not walker's daughter but good parents do no stand by and watch their children suffer if they love them. Ever.

God “let’s me down” when I want my way and it’s not His Way. But I do thank Him that He didn’t get behind some of my “Please make so-and-so fall in love with me” prayers! Many of my young ideas were scary.

 

I think good parents sometimes allow their children to suffer. If we always hold their hands through a math problem (or do it for them) they don’t learn to do it themselves. If we don’t allow them to suffer through medical surgeries they don’t get well. If we stop them from going through rigorous, disciplined training they don’t get stronger.

[lunaticheathen]

You're so uneducated about Africa and racist that you make me fucking sick.

That is all.

[pratt]

How does one in a right mind when one compares the sufferings in africa as a math problem or even going through a medical procedure? that really baffles me,,,,,,

[foolish girl]

In the Old Testament, Suffering is all a tool to control people. "Do what I say or I'll let people invade you"

 

"do what I say or I'll make you eat your babies"

 

In the New Testament it is because of sin or lack of faith.

 

Modern Christianity says "Suffering is in the world because sin is in the world". That is a mutation of what the Bible says. The god of the bible, when seen objectively, sees torture as an art form and delights in its perfection.

I would say it is “Follow me to be strong” - strong in all ways (physically, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually). And - “If you’re not strong your enemies will invade and defeat you, and you will suffer greatly.”

Suffering is good for us...See?

• The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs 20:30

• A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back. Proverbs 26:3
  

• And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 22:12-13

• If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.Psalm 89:31-2

• If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. Matthew 18:8-9

how about:

 

Hosea 2:

3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst. 2:4 And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms. (innocent children??!!)

2:5 For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink. 2:6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths.

 

Loving Father corrects us.!!!!!!

 

How about creating or allowing disability. Then forbidding the people to approach him lest they profane the sanctuary. Kind of like the misfortune of being born a woman.:

 

Lev.21:17-23 Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

 

Suffer in childbirth (but have lots of babies!!!!!!) and live in subjection to men. Not just you but ALL women. How much suffering in the world comes from the subjection of women??!! Is THAT Justice? No. It is spite.

 

In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children. ... Thy husband ... shall rule over thee."

 

God is the same yesterday, always and forever.

 

He regrets creating us:

 

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (babies....are they predestined to be bad? BABIES. God made them- who predestined them then? NO....? There is NO pre-destiny? Then WHY kill an innocent 6 year old...? Oh, but God is "anti-abortion"...and also Why should it repent him that he made birds?! WTF? That story is stupid anyway)

 

So he won't flood us again, but he doesn't mind if we suffer.(cause he never changes)

 

Ahhhhhh Leviticus:

 

26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 26:31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 26:32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 26:33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

 

ETC.....ETC......it just doesn't read to me like:

 

"LOVE me, OBEY me and you will be strong and happy"...

 

.....it reads to me like" WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN TO ME YOU BITCH??!!! I'LL KILL YOU! I'LL KILL YOUR KIDS! I'LL BURN YOUR FUCKING HOUSE DOWN! I WILL LET the neighbors RAPE you while your MOTHER WATCHES...and you will have GOTTEN WHAT YOU DESERVED."

 

"you can't say I didn't warn you...............why don't you LOVE mEEEEEEeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeee?"

this has been a rant.

[foolish girl]

P.S...I am not mad at you, walker.

I am disgusted with the Bible.

[onequestion]

It's one thing to have nice arguments about how a good God can allow suffering while you're living the cushy American life. It's another thing to live among it and feel like you're watching God do nothing.

 

The cushy American people don't get by with it, usually. This reminds me of the rich man and Lazarus. If you live the cushy stuff now, you'll be the rich man who was begging Lazarus for some water. So instead of writing off God because I see human suffering, it would (and does) scare the pants off of me, because I know that he's avenges people extremely, and that if they're getting that now, everyone who lives cushy and doesn't make a life of helping them is going to get it that much worse in the end. I really see no other explanation. There's an order to the universe, a Bible that I'm convinced is infallible, and I'm leaning towards predestination, so posts like this really bother me because I basically feel like I'm going to be charged with everything that's happening to them. The Bible says to sell everything you own and give alms. So basically, when it comes down to it and we're judged by what it says (over and over again: Give to the poor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and in prison), then there really won't be anything we can say to that. I really don't want that to happen to me or anyone else. I just wanted to post this because everything I see just really bothers me. Like I read on a website about something similar, and I thought, "I'm going to be blamed for this, for not doing enough to prevent this, for gluttony, etc." I'm posting this mainly just out of fear for my own situation, so if I'm talking out loud.

[Guest Valk0010]

How can the bible be infallible, if for example, the problem of evil/suffering is valid. Onequestion.

[Kathlene]

I asked the question of all people - Christians included. As far as the general Christian population … don’t get me started. The general state of the American Christian Church is an immature, uneducated, weak, often foolish, mess. I won’t say I’ve seen it all, but I’ve seen a lot. Why would an American Christian attending a “prosperity theology” church think about anything other than getting rich and famous themselves? Then there are those who are so busy finding a demon under every bush that they miss the real demons (hunger, sickness, poverty). But hey - they’re working on finding the exact way to pronounce YHWH because there’s “power in the Name”! How about those who are “saved by grace” but busy with performing a zillion “necessary” church works so they can get into heaven? (What?) And then there are those who got baptized, got their admission ticket, and can now put their feet up and “live like hell” and die and go to heaven? (Greasy grace - slide right into heaven.) To top it all off, we have people like Fred Phelps can only think about telling a certain group that they’re going to hell.

 

(And as far as “converting people” - only God can do that. So Christians can put away their belts full of “notches“.)

 

Sure, there are a few mature, educated, wise, strong Christians who are really bringing life and change to their big or small world … but they’re easy to miss. They’re a remnant. In the meantime, we’ve got all the others who often make more work for those maturely working. I’m with you, OF. I reject all this too. (And they all probably judge me to be worthy of hell!)

 

I thought homosexual death penalties were Islamic.

 

We’ll see who gets “left behind”, right? Seriously, the pre-tribulation rapture is more of the prosperity theology thing - “Jesus suffered and died so we’ll never have to.” Have these people read what Jesus said about sufferings and persecutions? Jesus didn’t tell His followers they’d never suffer

 

So, I’ve probably said more than enough. Phew on false Christianity.

oh and there it is again those magic words...false christianity

Do you, Kathlene, believe it is not possible for people to have wrong ideas about God and His Truth?

 

 

Well Walker, how do you decide what is false or true? are tongues wrong? go to some churches yes it is, others no. What about baptism v baptism of the Holy spirit? what about faith v works? what about arminiasim v calvinism...my goodness the list is endless.

 

Funnily enough, most of the people in here came from families or churches that had normal christian doctrines, that caused untold suffering into their lives. Sometimes those doctrines got mishaped and distorted to extreme situations. These people were going to normal christian churches. Ok now can you show me the purest true christian and purest true church?

[LivingLife]

Aah the rich man and Lazarus, how quaint?

 

This parable even with the best scholarly approach and interpretation is a set up.

 

Once you become a xian, you have to make a plea to poverty so to speak but that however does not jive too well with the church that relies on tithes. So what exactly does this parable teach us?

 

Was the poor man righteous? Is his lot in Abraham's bosom because he was simply a beggar and poor? Clearly you have not thought this through.

 

FF to 2011. You see a drunk in the street, hungover and with a cup in his hand. You of course know where that donation of yours will end up so you pass on by. Who is to say this was not the case of the parable story? You woo woos are all about these type of folk that need to get a job and get a life, pretty far from the other parable of the good Samaritan who btw was anathema to the jews of the day. But then jesus also had a negative connotation of the poor telling us that we shall always have them with us, he was merely stating a fact of society and how they are.

 

Back to your parable. Under the law, this poor man had no means to get himself saved, forgiven whatever as he did not have the means to meet the rituals of offerings to achieve this, remember the sold doves at the temple which your jesus also fucked up big time. Yet he makes it boots and all into heaven or Abraham's bosom and the rich man, who likely did have the means and possibly did do these rituals ends up on the other side. The parable infers that his brother's were destined to the same place as him.

 

See, when I see Jan and Paul Crouch flaunting their wealth on TBN and you suckers feed them in the praize-a-thons how does this parable apply again? You can take any mega preacher right down to your lil' church, they are all the same just with a different scale.

 

If this parable bears any merit, you should thus sell up all and go give it to the drunks and outcasts. You do know that jesus hung out with whores and outcasts, they were the core of his followers outside the 12

 

The parable may be indicative of storing up treasures in heaven but not on earth but that is not what the parable says, by inference alone is this assumption made by the church. When you cross ref this to the beatitudes, then it is obvious, you need to be an outcast/beggar/poor man to inherit the kingdumb but not before giving all you own to the church.

 

This is as I said a set up to make one feel guilty if they are blessed beyond others and the irony of it all is, these blessed folk usually make up the leadership of a church, never seen a poor fella on a church board, have you?

 

The threat of hell here is not as scary as it appears to be but it is part of the mindfuck 2.0 they employ after the goofy stuff of being born again wears off. You hear the catch phrases of "god meets you need not your greed" as they ride off into the sunset in their bright and shiny toys bought with your hard earned money.

 

So you want to give to charity. The church is registered as such and they of course know where the needs are so just put it in the plate and we shall attend to the needs. Fuck I hope a penny has dropped here as that is what the whole parable is about. Jesus' biggest gripe was against the Scribes and Pharisees and ALL of his teachings on hell related to them and not the common plebs of the day.

 

The followers of jesus were outcasts and rejects of the society of the day barring a few witnesses from the elite of the day that quizzed him. His philosophy made a whole lot of sense to those that were under the impression they were betrayed.

 

Although I do not believe jesus existed, lets pretend he did.

 

The only way the Greco/Roman folk could bring a new state religion into fruition was to paint the old as outdated and then later hijack that to give their religion some form of validity. This is what actually happened should you choose to research in detail outside your paradigms.

 

Every parable, the target was against those in control at the time. Pretty pointless to get insurrection fueled up by preaching to the Have's.

 

As early as Acts, they adopted the same lame system and everyone had to sell off everything and give it to the apostles. This was not distributed evenly as they teach you, it was to care for everyone and we really do not know how that panned out do we apart from appoint 70 buddies to administer this huge task?

 

Remember The incident of Peter and the poor/beggar man when he stated that gold and silver he did not have but that which he had... look it up. Where the fuck did all that wealth go to? Is that not the same as what you see in churches today? You give and give and give but get fuck all in return, only the promise that current blessings from gawd will be severely affected if you stop giving to the lord's work. In the mean time the job you have, the wealth you have is as a direct consequence of your parents or your own merits.

 

Why did Peter not give him a dime? Did his actions not equal that of the parable story?

 

So if you want to do charitable deeds, do it via a secular charitable organization that actually are accountable as to where all the money goes unlike churches, they skim off the top but usually in the order of 35%. The church I attended merely thithed to a bigger church and the one area of missions they had, they abandoned. It is pretty much a don't ask don't tell when it comes to church finances. Sure they appropriate the funds and keep book but rest assured, less than 5% actually is used in charitable deeds like the good Samaritan.

 

But then one has to wonder what jesus meant by this

⁶

But Jesus said, “Let her alone. Why do you trouble her? She has done a good work for Me.

⁷

For you have the poor with you always

, and whenever you wish you may do them good; but Me you do not have always.

⁸

She has done what she could. She has come beforehand to anoint My body for burial.

The context was she wasted precious oil on jesus.

 

Seems his followers had a better perspective on dealing with the poor.

⁴

But there were some who were indignant among themselves, and said, “Why was this fragrant oil wasted?

⁵

For it might have been sold for more than three hundred denarii and given to the poor

.” And they criticized her sharply.

Even they could see the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the one. Can you see the mindfuck jesus pulled on them? This, a god incarnate that needed nothing AT ALL from humans. Why did he need to smell good to die seeing he was going to get up three days later? So the idea of giving tithes is a placebo effect of actually doing some good but what they do not tell you they merely beautify their temples to the mighty dollar and you are too blind to see it happening.

 

The church, nor your jesus gives two shits for the needy as if he did, there should be no needy in our midst at present. Reality check requires us to understand compassion for the needy comes from the heart and not from some frigging wuss in the sky.

 

I often wonder if there were no churches and all this money was distributed to where it was intended how the outcome of poverty could have been addressed. But hey that is a socialist paradigm and does not gel well with the religious right. Socialism will not work as we as humans are too fucked up to let that have even a remote chance, people love their possessions both believers and unbelievers alike.

 

So WWJD?

 

Exactly what you (will) do

[Deva]

I don’t know any human “houses” that aren’t at least somewhat divided, except houses where there is no freedom of thought permitted. End-time thought isn’t a crucial belief anyway. You’re right though - the fact that Christianity is around today is miraculous.

 

I will give you the "house divided" point, but I never said that the fact that Christianity is around today was "miraculous." I said it was on the way out. YOU are the only one that thinks it is miraculous.

[Deva]

You have been able to move from your Christian past - I can move from my past of broken relationship with God. I’m not sinless but my sin no longer stops me from walking with God. That’s positive.

 

I don't believe in the whole "relationship with God" thing. I don't believe in the kind of God that breaks a relationship off like a pissed off human being.

 

Where did sin come from?

[mwc]

The women who worked at the orphanage my daughter helped at weren’t struggling to survive. They were trained, educated, and paid even if they didn’t show for work. This method of paying workers resulted in a problem right before my daughter came - the special needs area of the orphanage had to be closed because workers didn’t come to work and the children, who couldn‘t feed themselves, were starving to death. The other orphanage workers made a decision to save donated money for an air conditioner - they did this by buying only rice and tomatoes for the children to eat. Yes - Africa is hot, but Africans are used to their climate and used to having no AC. 70 degrees feels cold to them. AC is nice to have, but before food? The children didn’t mind the heat.

Africa is a big place. Where about's did this happen?

 

mwc

[par4dcourse]

Africa is a big place. Where about's did this happen?

 

mwc

 

 

You know that beautiful stories about god's unbound love and miracles for those who believe are best served with no factual basis.

 

 

[Darklady]

If suffering proves that man is “a nasty little animal who has little regard to his fellow man (man as in human kind.)” then how do we explain the good man does? How can a “nasty little animal” do anything good?

 

A lack of a physical manifestation of God doesn’t prove God does not exist. God doesn’t insist on His way because of some self-centered need - it’s just that other ways don’t work. My daughter’s way didn’t work (all her ideas fell flat). The people who supplied the orphanage - their way wasn’t working. And it was common knowledge that supplies sent through the postal system often didn’t reach their destination - that way didn’t work either. What did her college advise? They told her not to care so much - that different cultures are different and we have to respect differences.”

 

Suffering does exist, whether we believe God exists or not. Without God we’re “nasty little animals”. With God we can help.

'A lack of physical manifestation' - there is NO physical eviidence that any gods exist.

I have to laugh at your statement 'God doesn’t insist on His way because of some self-centered need - it’s just that other ways don’t work.

 

because it is blindly obvious that gods way does not work eaither - but then god doesn't exist so thats not a surprize.

 

Yes man is often a nasty little animal - whether or not he beleives in some god, do some reading and discover for yourself the many nasty ways man has acted because of his belief in some god,

history is full of it

the bible is full of it

what shouldn't be surprizing is that man can also do wonderful things for his fellow man, without any mindnumbing belief in some cruel god. Read the bible walker.

I would say God’s Way works - we don’t. There’s only one perfect person in the Bible - true. History is filled with imperfect people too - agreed.

 

You had written that man is “a nasty little animal who has little regard to his fellow man (man as in human kind.)”. You then said man is often a nasty little animal. I asked how you explain the good man does. ?

 

Walker you keep making statements that are NOT correct - and have NO proof. - 'there is only one perfect person in the bible - who says so - you? the bible is NOT based on fact - if you think differently prove it - and don't quote scripture to do so, that just doesn't not prove anything.

 

Man does 'good' because we live in society and thats the way it works. You need to do some reading on the evolution of society and how relationships work - man does NOT do good, because of some belief in some god - there are just as many 'xtians' that do evil as non xtians - plenty of proof for that walker -

Being a so called 'xtian' does not change human nature - thats is just laughable - many many xtains are completely evil

[Darklady]

False christianity walker?

 

what makes YOU think yours is right. out of all the thousands of various sects that claim they are the only 'right'church.

I agree with Luna 100%, you are so full of self righteousness and blinded by thinking that YOU are right and everyone else is reaping the rewards of their UNBELIEF in YOUR god!!!!!!

 

People like you are the cause of unhappiness in the world, the "I'm right and your are wrong' shit.

Wouldn’t you say you’re right and I’m wrong? What makes you think you are right? How do you know? How do you determine this?

 

I not the one coming to an ex xtian site trying to PROVE that my specific brand of xtanity is RIGHT - thats you -

You are the one coming here stating untruths as though they are true

You are the one whos coming here and preaching as though what you have to say is worthy of attention

its no different to any of the other trolls that come and go thinking they have the answers, the "right" brand of xanity that we are just waiting to hear ....

If you want to come and learn - fine,

I don't know i am right, but i know that there is NO proof that there is any truth in the claims of xtanity and that it is NOT true

[mwc]

You know that beautiful stories about god's unbound love and miracles for those who believe are best served with no factual basis.

Get thee behind me ye old goat.

 

 

mwc

[onequestion]

ALL of his teachings on hell related to them and not the common plebs of the day.

 

I'm going to try to take a nap, so I just wanted to respond to this part. I'm sorry if I've been a Pharisee.

[walker]

...

“I'm not a racist, so I can't believe that my race is more highly evolved or in some other way superior to the African culture. So there's only one way to account for the difference between my culture and theirs - the influence of a very existent God.”

Concerning “racism”, my daughter attended a large, well-known, highly respected university which had a “campus” in Africa. She had African professors while there, and these African professors questioned why the African people didn’t really fight the white men when they came to colonize, “loot“, and enslave. They felt the Africans had the means and had certain aspects on their side (they were used to their climate and had more immunity to African diseases). Africans were strong and brave. These African professors taught that their ancestors couldn’t seem to band together because tribes fought each other, often for religious reasons. They taught that their ancestors thought white men were superior to them (again for religious reasons). They said though Africa is rich in natural resources their continent has some of the poorest in the world.

...

I'm not sure I understand the views presented here, but when these two are combined, it sounds like thanks to Christianity and belief in God that made them united and strong as a force, the west colonized, looted, and enslaved the Africans who were weak because of their different beliefs. Is that what you're suggesting?

 

God made the west united and strong, so west could be evil and empower weaker nations, and that's why God and Christianity is so great?

 

I must be missing something. Could you please explain?

Many religions can unite a people, and rulers have used religions for this purpose. The Spanish Catholic Church sent missionaries to South America to help conquer the people - to teach them to honor the colonizing power. The French Catholic Church did a similar thing in parts of North Africa. Colonizers would use Christianity to justify what they were doing, but of course it was all about money.

 

Just because religion can unite and strengthen doesn’t mean the rulers/people are then acting in accordance with the teachings of the God they claim to worship. In fact, people don’t even need to know much about what they claim to believe to pick up some helpful teachings. So, for example, the value of hard work is picked up but the reasons God directs it are lost (along with the balance). And the value of uniting a people is picked up but how to use this power is lost. Religion doesn’t necessarily produce godly character - especially if there is no relationship with God.

[walker]

"But God works through people"

 

If god works through people and the people are doing all the work, what is the need for god?

God works through people - the effort unites God (His Power and Spirit) and the person. He gives direction and encouragement, etc. A cheering crowd can help a tired runner find his “second wind” at the end of a long race. Helping the suffering is often difficult, tiring, discouraging, frustrating, seemingly hopeless work.

[walker]

"I believe your daughter actually would still do these things even without a belief in God, despite what she says, but I could be wrong."

 

I would bet she has been told by religious leaders she would not do these things if she did not believe in god. However, I believe she is probably tender hearted all on her own and would still help as she has even without god!!!

In all my decades as a Christian I have never heard any religious leader say people wouldn’t help the suffering if they didn’t believe in God. Her tender-heart is why she wouldn’t be able to help without God’s Strength - what she saw would hurt too much.

[Galien]

From my daughter:

 

"I know it's a Christianese saying to say that people will let you down, but God never will - I know what it's like to have people thoughtlessly throw that phrase at you when you're feeling completely alone and God doesn't seem to be there. But the thing is, though I thought I longed for people to help and support me, they would never have been able to give me what I really wanted. I wanted God. When I was done looking everywhere else for support, and when I was done throwing a tantrum, He was there.

 

 

"Now I have a friend going through a similar thing, and I'm so grateful that she can come to me and find someone who will listen and not just throw a hollow phrase at her. But though she knows my story, I tell her that this a process she needs to go through and that these are questions she needs to ask. It's really painful, but I'm not the one who can take the pain away. I'm probably not even going to be able to help her feel better because I'm not the one she wants answers from. However, I can tell her, and anyone else who's struggling, that there is another side. God remains loving and true, and the deeper relationship I now have with Him was worth the pain."

 

And when I calmed down god wasn't there.

 

God lets us all down because he either isn't there or doesn't care. You have a deep relationship with the pure heart of yourself. What I believed to be god let me down in more ways that I could ever describe, and the pain is soul destroying. That isn't love. I don't know if you are a parent or not walker's daughter but good parents do no stand by and watch their children suffer if they love them. Ever.

God “let’s me down” when I want my way and it’s not His Way. But I do thank Him that He didn’t get behind some of my “Please make so-and-so fall in love with me” prayers! Many of my young ideas were scary.

 

I think good parents sometimes allow their children to suffer. If we always hold their hands through a math problem (or do it for them) they don’t learn to do it themselves. If we don’t allow them to suffer through medical surgeries they don’t get well. If we stop them from going through rigorous, disciplined training they don’t get stronger.

 

 

Geez walker I bet you think I have never heard this before after 36 years as a christian. Kudos to me though that I was never actually arrogant enough to say it. This is exactly the kind of crap I am so tired of hearing. Why do christians always spout this rubbish when they have no real answer that makes sense in the real world. It is wanting your own way wanting to be cured of a life threatening illness? Begging to have your mental illness taken away? If god didnt want us to suffer, we wouldn't. I am not talking about the kind of suffering that makes a person grow. I am talking about the type that tortures you to suicide or makes you die from pneumonia.

 

Sorry mate but i cannot see how a 5 year old shitting out his insides from gasteroenteritis in a desert is to anyone's advantage, or teaches anyong anything good. Personally I am sick and tiref of this rote rubbish that christians crap on with. Tell me walker, what good does it do for children to starve to death?

[pratt]

galien,

 

do you expect walker to tell you the kid died for no reason at all? you expect him to tell you that god created the kid so the kid can die a horrible death because god has willed it and because he can?

 

he will give you the standard dance routine on how god uses people to give assistance to the kid and put you on a guilty trip such as what are you going to do about it.

[LivingLife]

ALL of his teachings on hell related to them and not the common plebs of the day.

 

I'm going to try to take a nap, so I just wanted to respond to this part. I'm sorry if I've been a Pharisee.

 

By that short response of nothing, I assume you concede the argument?

 

Maybe you should re read it and give us your take on all the lil' sentences ending with a ?

[par4dcourse]

 

do you expect walker to tell you the kid died for no reason at all? you expect him to tell you that god created the kid so the kid can die a horrible death because god has willed it and because he can?

 

he will give you the standard dance routine on how god uses people to give assistance to the kid and put you on a guilty trip such as what are you going to do about it.

 

This is the point in most xian threads that they start to get a little annoyed that we STILL aren't hearing their version of the "good news" with all the nods and amens that we should and begin ad hominem attacks and warnings that we may be punished for our ignorance.

 

So, Walker, I'm curious too. What good does it do for children to starve to death?