freespirit Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 What drives one with such religious zeal? And how did you get over it? The fanaticism I experienced in Pentecostal churches was a cult of personality built around the pastors of the churches I attended. Although they operated under the guise of mainstream religion, everything was built on the pastor's charisma and his promises to work miracles. He had something we didn't and he strung us along with promises we could have the same gifts if we believed with purity and gave our money to God. Of course, in order to give to God, you have to give to the pastor. It's the classic cult scam. Empty promises aimed at raising money. Hardcore fanaticism is a result of the pastor's teachings aimed at controlling and fleecing his followers. It's all about control and the reason for that control is each follower represents big money. Even if that person is poor, if the pastor can get a weekly 10% plus offerings, he is making out like a bandit. d. I understand what you are saying but there is another kind of pastor too. These pastors are also suckers. They are the pastors of the small or just starting out churches and often pay to pastor. My husband and I did that for many years and are still paying off some bills related to all that a number of years out. Then, we were blackballed and blamed for taking money after we took a church that had been pastored by a big shot....he didn't have any records and the people thought the church had a lot of money. We took the church and started being honest with the people. They thought we stole it and sued. It was a huge mess but I am so happy to be out of it and can wipe that big SUCKER sticker off my forehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Is it possible to be a fundie and not a fanatic? Somehow, those two go together in my mind. Yes, but perhaps you have to be raised in it to not be a fanatic. The experience of getting into fundamentalism as a teen or adult has a tendency to solidify it IMO. This is most likely true. I was raised in a fanatical Christian church environment but I never went so far as to become what I would consider a fanatic. That is, I never participated in "soul winning", -I never tried to preach to anyone or convert them, although I felt guilty for not doing so. I rarely saw the second generation being as fanatical as the first. I think having to choose between the church and your family of origin as a new convert builds some walls that second generation people don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I would say to honestly try and understand their point of view. Don't judge and don't argue. I agree with this. I used to argue and try to make them see what I see, but that is just as bad as them doing it to me. Now I try to understand their point of view without judgment, and I constantly remind myself I believed the same way not so long ago. Yeah, it's hard not to argue sometimes, but it seems the best route for any disagreement of any topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I understand what you are saying but there is another kind of pastor too. These pastors are also suckers. They are the pastors of the small or just starting out churches and often pay to pastor. My husband and I did that for many years and are still paying off some bills related to all that a number of years out. Then, we were blackballed and blamed for taking money after we took a church that had been pastored by a big shot....he didn't have any records and the people thought the church had a lot of money. We took the church and started being honest with the people. They thought we stole it and sued. It was a huge mess but I am so happy to be out of it and can wipe that big SUCKER sticker off my forehead. Sure. Not all pastors are bad people. The ones in the churches I attended were, though. However, one of my uncles was a pastor and is someone whom I consider a good person. He's the kind of man more churches need in their leadership. He no longer preaches, though. His wife was severely abused as a child and went through an awful suicidal phase after one of their children died at 6 months old. He stuck it out with her and they eventually got through it, but the congregation decided he was unfit to lead, that their problems were a sign they didn't have God's blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I understand what you are saying but there is another kind of pastor too. These pastors are also suckers. They are the pastors of the small or just starting out churches and often pay to pastor. My husband and I did that for many years and are still paying off some bills related to all that a number of years out. Then, we were blackballed and blamed for taking money after we took a church that had been pastored by a big shot....he didn't have any records and the people thought the church had a lot of money. We took the church and started being honest with the people. They thought we stole it and sued. It was a huge mess but I am so happy to be out of it and can wipe that big SUCKER sticker off my forehead. Sure. Not all pastors are bad people. The ones in the churches I attended were, though. However, one of my uncles was a pastor and is someone whom I consider a good person. He's the kind of man more churches need in their leadership. He no longer preaches, though. His wife was severely abused as a child and went through an awful suicidal phase after one of their children died at 6 months old. He stuck it out with her and they eventually got through it, but the congregation decided he was unfit to lead, that their problems were a sign they didn't have God's blessing. Yes, any sign of weakness on the part of a pastor can be used against one. I remember first getting in.....I intended to show weakness because I hated that my pastor never did. After a time, the system kind of takes hold of you and molds you into it's shape. It's unfortunate. I think there are maybe three kinds of pastors. The first is the kind that makes personal sacrifices and really believes in what they are doing but can hurt people by simply being so entrenched in the system. The second is the kind that is not so entrenched in the system and is working for change. This kind can hurt people who are entrenched in the system by seeming a hypocrite while being in the system and practicing something else. The third kind is manipulative and power hungry and will use whatever he can to pursue his own ends. Of course, he hurts people because he is primarily selfish. All three kinds have those that love and hate them. I guess it goes with the job. Of course, some kinds are more noble than others because some pastors love people and others are just out for what they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 There is another type of pastor - the narcissist who has to be in the limelight. Probably this is the only place where he has a captive audience and can perform in front of a crowd to his heart's content. I saw an Episcopal priest like this who has almost run all of the old members off. Everything that was started by someone else he had to take a leading role in - it became embarrassing - example: the music ministry. Once a "praise band" was formed, he learned to play a guitar in about a month and then dominated the group, he HAD to take it over as with everything else...another time he took over the meditative Taize prayer service, with no understanding of what it should have been. I don't see how the church is even still surviving. Sad thing is that I am sure he just can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I would say to honestly try and understand their point of view. Don't judge and don't argue. I agree with this. I used to argue and try to make them see what I see, but that is just as bad as them doing it to me. Now I try to understand their point of view without judgment, and I constantly remind myself I believed the same way not so long ago. I did this, tried very hard to emphasize our common ground, I put a lot of energy into being positive and it worked sometimes, but ultimately this person is determined to fight and argue and show how he is right. I decided all I was doing was enabling by not arguing the most insane claims, and repulsing his aggressive proselytzing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Do the reactions of people around you make any difference when one is in that kind of emotional state? What do you mean? Can you rephrase that? Can anyone do anything for someone like that? What can people do when there is a fanatic in their midst? Is there any reasoning possible, or just get out of the way? I see the potential for danger in this kind of crazy! I would say to honestly try and understand their point of view. Don't judge and don't argue. Oh and it has become more and more difficult to distinguish the fanaticism from ... crazy. I am seriously worried about this person being unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 There is another type of pastor - the narcissist who has to be in the limelight. Probably this is the only place where he has a captive audience and can perform in front of a crowd to his heart's content. I saw an Episcopal priest like this who has almost run all of the old members off. Everything that was started by someone else he had to take a leading role in - it became embarrassing - example: the music ministry. Once a "praise band" was formed, he learned to play a guitar in about a month and then dominated the group, he HAD to take it over as with everything else...another time he took over the meditative Taize prayer service, with no understanding of what it should have been. I don't see how the church is even still surviving. Sad thing is that I am sure he just can't see it. Yikes! He probably thinks he has to "run" everything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Do the reactions of people around you make any difference when one is in that kind of emotional state? What do you mean? Can you rephrase that? Can anyone do anything for someone like that? What can people do when there is a fanatic in their midst? Is there any reasoning possible, or just get out of the way? I see the potential for danger in this kind of crazy! I would say to honestly try and understand their point of view. Don't judge and don't argue. Oh and it has become more and more difficult to distinguish the fanaticism from ... crazy. I am seriously worried about this person being unbalanced. Yeah, but I think you have to let go of the idea that you can change them. You can state your opinion without arguing, which should probably be done. But a quiet acceptance that they are who they are is probably best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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