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Dishonesty


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You can read my story here but in short, I rejected Christian dogma as a teen. I cannot really remember when I rejected the idea of the Christian God, but I did, though to this day I am unsure of what exactly many people refer to when they talk about God.

 

Thirty five years later, with kids and prompted by an evangelist, I took another look at Christianity. Primarily I was embarrassed at my acknowledged ignorance of the Bible. So I read it, read CS Lewis, attended an Alpha class, a few other things. Yep. Nothing had changed, but I did learn about the Protestant branch of Christianity, especially the most conservative. My number one observation? Dishonesty.

 

Particularly dishonest with themselves, which allows Christians to twist language around to serve their preferences (this is a habit from all the creative Bible interpreting/ignoring, as needed), to live with contradiction and falsehoods (oh he really loves me though he beats me), and to generally not deal with reality.

 

Just sayin.

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The bible says: "May God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 15:5-6).

"There is one body and one Spirit . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Well now , somebody's got to have the truth! :shrug:

 

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version), global Christianity had 33,820 denominations with 3,445,000 congregations/churches composed of 1,888 million affiliated Christians. :twitch: Here are only a few offshoots of Christianity:

 

Catholic 1,050,000,000

Orthodox/Eastern Christian 240,000,000

African indigenous sects (AICs) 110,000,000

Pentecostal 105,000,000

Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United 75,000,000

Anglican 73,000,000

Baptist 70,000,000

Methodist 70,000,000

Lutheran 64,000,000

Jehovah's Witnesses 14,800,000

Adventist 12,000,000

Latter Day Saints 12,500,000

Apostolic/New Apostolic 10,000,000

Stone-Campbell ("Restoration Movement") 5,400,000

New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.) 1,500,000

Brethren (incl. Plymouth) 1,500,000

Mennonite 1,250,000

Friends (Quakers) 300,000

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The bible says: "May God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 15:5-6).

"There is one body and one Spirit . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Well now , somebody's got to have the truth! :shrug:

 

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version), global Christianity had 33,820 denominations with 3,445,000 congregations/churches composed of 1,888 million affiliated Christians. :twitch: Here are only a few offshoots of Christianity:

 

Catholic 1,050,000,000

Orthodox/Eastern Christian 240,000,000

African indigenous sects (AICs) 110,000,000

Pentecostal 105,000,000

Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United 75,000,000

Anglican 73,000,000

Baptist 70,000,000

Methodist 70,000,000

Lutheran 64,000,000

Jehovah's Witnesses 14,800,000

Adventist 12,000,000

Latter Day Saints 12,500,000

Apostolic/New Apostolic 10,000,000

Stone-Campbell ("Restoration Movement") 5,400,000

New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.) 1,500,000

Brethren (incl. Plymouth) 1,500,000

Mennonite 1,250,000

Friends (Quakers) 300,000

 

I'm lucky I was a Baptist since they are the only true Christians. :woohoo:

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The bible says: "May God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 15:5-6).

"There is one body and one Spirit . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all" (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Well now , somebody's got to have the truth! :shrug:

 

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version), global Christianity had 33,820 denominations with 3,445,000 congregations/churches composed of 1,888 million affiliated Christians. :twitch: Here are only a few offshoots of Christianity:

 

Catholic 1,050,000,000

Orthodox/Eastern Christian 240,000,000

African indigenous sects (AICs) 110,000,000

Pentecostal 105,000,000

Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United 75,000,000

Anglican 73,000,000

Baptist 70,000,000

Methodist 70,000,000

Lutheran 64,000,000

Jehovah's Witnesses 14,800,000

Adventist 12,000,000

Latter Day Saints 12,500,000

Apostolic/New Apostolic 10,000,000

Stone-Campbell ("Restoration Movement") 5,400,000

New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.) 1,500,000

Brethren (incl. Plymouth) 1,500,000

Mennonite 1,250,000

Friends (Quakers) 300,000

 

I'm lucky I was a Baptist since they are the only true Christians. :woohoo:

 

NOOOOOO! you got it wrong!! We Pentecostals had the truth!! Baptists Suck!! :lmao:

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I'm lucky I was a Baptist since they are the only true Christians. :woohoo:

 

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

NOOOOOO! you got it wrong!! We Pentecostals had the truth!! Baptists Suck!! :lmao:

 

WRONG! The Church of Christ isn't even a denomination "WE" are just NEW testament christians. So SUCK IT! ................lol :lmao:

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You can read my story here but in short, I rejected Christian dogma as a teen. I cannot really remember when I rejected the idea of the Christian God, but I did, though to this day I am unsure of what exactly many people refer to when they talk about God.

 

Thirty five years later, with kids and prompted by an evangelist, I took another look at Christianity. Primarily I was embarrassed at my acknowledged ignorance of the Bible. So I read it, read CS Lewis, attended an Alpha class, a few other things. Yep. Nothing had changed, but I did learn about the Protestant branch of Christianity, especially the most conservative. My number one observation? Dishonesty.

 

Particularly dishonest with themselves, which allows Christians to twist language around to serve their preferences (this is a habit from all the creative Bible interpreting/ignoring, as needed), to live with contradiction and falsehoods (oh he really loves me though he beats me), and to generally not deal with reality.

 

Just sayin.

 

Completely agree. I twisted myself up inside for decades. I am obsessed with honesty, which is a manifestation of both my melancholy temperament and my OCD. However, the cognitive dissonance produced over the gap between the truth and what christians live and preach was so wide it fucked me up for years. I would tell them what I could see and they would tell me I was delusional. I was so sure that they would not lie to me for so long because I would never lie to them - they had me in their web and their power for years.

 

Eventually a situation came along where even christians told me I should have lied, but lying does not even occur to me. I realised then there was too great a gap between what I believed about christians and what they actually practice. They are consummate liars, to both themselves and others. Very bad advertising, and not something I want to be involved in EVER again.

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but I did learn about the Protestant branch of Christianity, especially the most conservative. My number one observation? Dishonesty.

 

Can you provide some examples?

 

for a start:

 

 

Declarations of 'loving the enemy' all the while excoriating and hating. Indeed, seeking out 'enemies'

 

Creative word re-definitions, twisting text to deny it's clear intention, prejudiced special terms, eg. "Darwinism' instead of evolution or natural selection

 

Contorted excuses for the awful things found in the Bible (genocide, rape etc)

 

Cultivating a sense of persecution

 

among others

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Xtech, I totally agree about the dishonesty. Not even the blatant dishonesty, but the biggest problem of all -- the subconscious dishonesty. If there is one thing I'm good at it's spotting falseness and insincerity, and most average Christians I've met live according to comfortable illusions that whatever small effort they are making covers their bases and makes them good and pleasing to God. Pointing out what the Bible says about the Christian walk is very uncomfortable to them, as is anything that actually requires real effort or change is uncomfortable as well. They'll quickly dismiss the conversation and crawl back into their illusion. It's really no different than any of the many illusions average people rely on for security. Look at all the people that don't save for retirement, but just think "it will all work out". Same thing -- no real effort, and no ability to look at their situation honestly. Average people are about one thing only -- personal comfort, and it's no different than with the majority of Christians. Now I have met several truly sincere, seeking Christians before. I have the highest respect for them for being willing to sacrifice so much for their belief, but on the flip side, it sounds like a lot of these seeking types end up where we are after a lifetime of fruitless pursuit of a God who doesn't keep up his end of the bargain.

 

If Christianity was true, and the God of the Bible -- creator of the universe -- really wanted a personal relationship with us, I'd think people would find him more addictive than crack. He'd be more intoxicating to hang out with than any celebrity or rock star, so the question is, why don't Christians spend more time with him than they do? The majority go to churches for the entertainment value these days, and the small fraction of time they spend praying and reading their Bibles seems to be done more out of a sense of obligation than desire.

 

Great post man -- thanks!

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Cultivating a sense of persecution

 

among others

 

 

This was one of the things that turned me off about it too, though not specific to my testimonial.

 

I remeber getting involved with a group in High School who were mainly Assembly of God, it was HS so yes a girl was invovled. They were doing prayer circle before classes and shit like that. Well they arrange for one of their pastors I believe to come to the high school before school on the national day of prayer to offer a blessing. Well he starts in on how we christians were still being persecuted. He read off a sheet of paper with lists of "stories" supposedly true of such persecution.

 

One story was how a high school group was praying and they were being taunted by classmates and a Vice-Principal walks by. Joins in and allegelledly kicked a christian in the back. My reaction was WTF? After that I decided I really wasn't interested in getting that girl's attention enough to put up with this. My other thought was something like that would've made national headlines and gotten the person fired and the school sued.

 

So yeah... I hear ya.

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:-( Sigh. I am sad for these people.

 

Thanks for your replies, it helps me to hear that dishonesty is a common trait. Alarming. What can be done to help them? Rhetorical question. Actually, it's been so long for me, but years of psychotherapy helped, a whole lot.

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I don't see it so much as dishonesty as it is delusion. I mean, to be dishonest implies that you know you're being dishonest. Most christians are duped and aren't consciously trying to lie about their beliefs.

 

My other thought was something like that would've made national headlines and gotten the person fired and the school sued.

 

Yeah that's the other thing about being a christian, you believe pretty much every christian urban legend around, simply because it was told to you by another christian.

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I don't see it so much as dishonesty as it is delusion. I mean, to be dishonest implies that you know you're being dishonest. Most christians are duped and aren't consciously trying to lie about their beliefs.

 

My other thought was something like that would've made national headlines and gotten the person fired and the school sued.

 

Yeah that's the other thing about being a christian, you believe pretty much every christian urban legend around, simply because it was told to you by another christian.

 

I guess you're right. From the outside it sure looks like dishonesty but it's hard to fathom how far these people are into their delusion.

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Yeah that's the other thing about being a christian, you believe pretty much every christian urban legend around, simply because it was told to you by another christian.

 

Yeah, no joke! I actually had a guy convince me of a few of those, which I later found came from the freakin' Weekly World News! A couple of stories -- one was that Heaven had been spotted with a high-powered telescope or something, and the other was that some Siberian drillers drilled so deep that demons flew out of the pit. I pointed the actual sources out to him later and of course he was disappointed, but the guy was 70-ish years old and just so willing to believe.

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Yeah I pretty much believed the "drilling into hell" story. There's also the one about Qantas not hiring christian pilots because they didn't want the planes unmanned if the rapture happened. And the one about Darwin repenting of evolution on his death bed.

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Lying has been central to Christianity for a long time:

 

"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides." - Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), founder of the Jesuit Order

 

and Martin Luther, the founder of Protestantism, was a big fan:

 

"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them."

 

– Martin Luther (Cited by his secretary, in a letter in Max Lenz, ed., Briefwechsel Landgraf Phillips des Grossmüthigen von Hessen mit Bucer, vol. I.)

 

More: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm

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Do you guys remember that story going around that a Christian girl was killed during the Columbine shootings? Supposedly one of the shooters asked her if she believed in god and she said yes, and was then shot. I remember believing it at the time, but I think it's all made up propoganda.

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Do you guys remember that story going around that a Christian girl was killed during the Columbine shootings? Supposedly one of the shooters asked her if she believed in god and she said yes, and was then shot. I remember believing it at the time, but I think it's all made up propoganda.

 

It's all made up. If you search the web you may be able to find the debunking.

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Do you guys remember that story going around that a Christian girl was killed during the Columbine shootings? Supposedly one of the shooters asked her if she believed in god and she said yes, and was then shot. I remember believing it at the time, but I think it's all made up propoganda.

 

From what I remember, there were two christians killed, a guy and a girl. And what you're saying was spoken of by the father of the christian girl that was killed. After the shooting he went around to a number of schools/churches tellings people about his daughter's life as a christian. I saw one of his talks and I didn't have a reason to doubt what he was saying. He got his information from his daughter's friends and others who were in the library with the killers at the time of the shooting.

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Yeah that's the other thing about being a christian, you believe pretty much every christian urban legend around, simply because it was told to you by another christian.

 

Yeah, no joke! I actually had a guy convince me of a few of those, which I later found came from the freakin' Weekly World News! A couple of stories -- one was that Heaven had been spotted with a high-powered telescope or something, and the other was that some Siberian drillers drilled so deep that demons flew out of the pit. I pointed the actual sources out to him later and of course he was disappointed, but the guy was 70-ish years old and just so willing to believe.

 

Xtian urban legends. Maybe we should make a new topic for it.

 

 

I remember the Siberian drill story too, even though I'm from Eastern Europe! It must have been a real wide-spread story among Xtians.

 

I also remember a sermon by a Russian guy called Ivan Vicovan(sp?) - or something like this. Did anybody here heard of him? I haven't heard this sermon live but it was given to me on a CD. This is a Russian preacher who immigrated to the US. And he claimed that God took him to Heaven and Hell and showed him what they were like. He also claimed that Satan's Throne from Revelation 2:13 is actually a real throne that is being kept secretly in Moscow! Though other Xtians disagree: http://www.everythingimportant.org/altarOfZeus/

 

 

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