Why Burst Their Bubble?

[foolish girl]

I've thought about this quite a bit too. On the one hand there are those that are convinced their departed loved ones are in heaven. I see no reason to burst their bubble. But what about those that think they have a loved one in hell? My mother in law is sure that her late sister is in hell. They were very close and she died a few years ago from breast cancer. My MIL tried to witness to her on her death bed and she told my MIL she did not want to hear it, she wasn't interested. This absolutely tore my MIL up. She is sure that her sister is burning right now.

 

My older fundamentalist brother has a son, my nephew, that is gay. He is convinced his son is going to hell. He suffered from depression and anxiety for about 2 years after finding out. He's better now but still struggles.

 

I've often wondered if I should say something to them. Maybe somehow try to educate them on how the hell myth originated, spread, and became part of Christian doctrine?

 

In this case, I think it would be a kindness.

 

Even if they respond with protective anger (snarling and circling religion to keep you from getting to it)......At least if the conversation goes awry you can calmly point out that you only wanted to help.

[foolish girl]

if someone asks me, I tell them my belief.

 

But usually, I try not to bring it up. Given my extended family make up you can guess why.

 

That is my sister's policy. I haven't decided if i want to be this reasonable or not.

 

Now, if people are mourning and talking about people in heaven, of course, I wouldn't open my mouth. BUT lately, if I hear someone say "Satan" did something" ....or Gay people are sinners, or and such- I am inclined to say that I do not agree.

 

I guess it depends upon the person and the moment.

 

My goal isn't to run around saying "God is stupid!"...but I am striving to make this like any other thing in life where it is a conversation, which is an exchange of ideas- not just silent nodding. Because that is fair.

 

I think I am going to church tomorrow, and It might be more interesting to be honest with everyone. Quietly, persistently "in your face"

[Legion]

VC you're just more of the same, imo.

 

I feel like taking a vacation from humanity sometimes.

[Godless Dave]

Not in that situation. But if they asked me what I believed I would answer honestly.

[george caitlin]

I also do not respond with my own comment when religious people make statements that their recently-departed loved ones are "With the Lord" or "In heaven". If that gives them comfort, that's fine.

 

Where I draw the line, however, is when these same well-meaning people try to make religious comments about my recently-departed loved ones (I have had three pass away in the last year and a half). When these unrelated people try to make these same bland religious comments to me, I just tell them simply that "None of us really knows what happens after a person dies - it may just be as simple as turning off a light switch, and then, darkness."

 

If they are uncomfortable about that, that is too bad; I am a little tired of accomodating religious people without getting the same in return.

[par4dcourse]

They can have a big ole cup full of whatever as long as they don't insist I drink.

 

 

par,

 

As quick and concise an answer as I've seen on subject.

 

Mind if I steal use of that for my tag?

 

kL

 

Glad to 'blige, my friend.

 

As Overcame pointed out, they flip side can be a bitch. My mom thinks her favorite brother is toasting because he committed suicide at 75 after bad news from his doc (we suspect liver cancer.) She thinks she can't feel otherwise because that's what she was taught from a young age.

 

 

 

[Thurisaz]

I would never 'burst their bubbles' - would you?

 

If that's all there is to it, then this belief - wrong as it is - does give the living comfort and harms no one. In that case, I'd let them believe it.

[Thurisaz]

I was in a church one time where someones sister died and the pastor of the church asked the lady right in front of everyone: 'Was she Saved'. and the lady said -'no'. and the pastor said, what a shame to spend eternity in hell! The whole church broke out in waling and I got up and left! I couldn't believe my ears!!

 

If I had been there the preacher would have shed a few teeth, with some gentle help from my fists

[chosendarkness]

I don't burst people's bubbles, most especially when they are mourning the loss of a loved one. But I have heard of Christians telling those in mourning that their loved one is in hell when, for example, the loved one committed suicide. That's more than just bursting a bubble. That's cruelty.

The belief is cruel. Millions of people have this deep fear that their loved ones who did not accept cheese's are burning in flames. They live in a world where most people, many they see everyday, will suffer for eternity. That's a dark and cruel world to live in.

[Xerces]

Why not burst it, do I care if they are waiting to die to see their loved ones, while at the same time believing that someone else's loved ones are burning because they didn't accept Jeebus? Fuck em'.

[Wade]

A friend of mine died a couple of months ago, he was an ex-christian but we didn't talk about it much... I assumed that most people knew. At his funeral I was surprised at the amount of religious talk (mainly from his family)... he either didn't tell them or that was their coping mechanism.

 

It wasn't what I expected... but it didn't bother me.

[ireckinso]

I have to admit I have had a rude moment when it comes to this subject. I made a comment I probably shouldn't have and do feel a bit bad for it because of the reaction I recieved, but as I look back on it I don't regret it.

 

The situation was a twelve year old child of a friend shot himself on accident playing with his dads gun. At the visitation I was talking to some other people who were there and how sad it was. They kept saying that it was a horrible accident and how they were such a good Christian family that didn't deserve this.They then said that they would pray for the family to stay faithfull to God through all of the hardship. I then responded,

 

"Now why would they stay faithful to God? It wasn't an accident, it was Gods fault! Right? Don't you all spout out that God has a plan for everyone? Then God wanted this to happen. So why pray at all? Gods plan was carried out...rejoice! Or maybe it was an accident and instead of wasting time praying people should just learn from their mistakes and accidents of others to keep it from happening again! I bet the second suggestion would bring more results. "

 

I was looked at with hatred and some choice words were exchanged. I may have been a bit rash but they should have know to lock the gun and not keep it loaded. This happens alot in the world, people need to learn from others mistakes not put faith in God to keep your guns out of your childs hands.

[freespirit]

I try to remain neutral. After all, I was a fundie for many years. Maybe those folks are right where they need to be for their own journey at this point in their lives.

[Vigile]

A friend of mine died a couple of months ago, he was an ex-christian but we didn't talk about it much... I assumed that most people knew. At his funeral I was surprised at the amount of religious talk (mainly from his family)... he either didn't tell them or that was their coping mechanism.

 

It wasn't what I expected... but it didn't bother me.

 

That would theoretically piss me off if it were about me. My family knows where I stand and if they want to believe, that's fine, but I hope they don't try and argue some sort of secret deathbed reconversion for me. My uncle was pretty non religious, and yet when he died, they drew upon stories, that I'm pretty sure were exaggerated and contrived that he had sought solace in religion during his last days. Likewise, my grandfather, who was vocally anti religion, and while a very loving person, was arguably an angry atheist. Yet, when he died in his mid 90s, my family tried to argue that he had drawn closer to god in his last months. This shit just pisses me off as much as I love my family. They can justify it for themselves, but religion is the bane of my life, and it offends me that they might try and justify it with me in my final days. My wife agrees and has made it clear that if they try that with me, she will balk and balk vociferously.

[florduh]

I agree with so much of your post Vomit, although I must not know too much about Atheism just yet because I don't mind Richard Dawkins? is there something wrong with me? I have watched so many of his debates and I find him to be quite a gentleman. You guys can straighten me out on this - I don't mind, because I am just learning.

Don't feel bad, Margee. It's hip to hate Dawkins these days. We forget how his contributions (The God Delusion in particular) have increased awareness and open discussion concerning atheism.

 

Regarding the OP, if someone is getting some comfort from their belief in the supernatural I wouldn't challenge them. But as it has been pointed out, the unfounded belief that a loved one has gone to a "Hell" for eternity really should be cleared up. Truth is always better than a lie, but with human emotions, timing is important, too.

[Margee]

I agree with so much of your post Vomit, although I must not know too much about Atheism just yet because I don't mind Richard Dawkins? is there something wrong with me? I have watched so many of his debates and I find him to be quite a gentleman. You guys can straighten me out on this - I don't mind, because I am just learning.

Don't feel bad, Margee. It's hip to hate Dawkins these days. We forget how his contributions (The God Delusion in particular) have increased awareness and open discussion concerning atheism.

 

 

Thanks Florduh! - I like Dawkins!

[foolish girl]

I agree with so much of your post Vomit, although I must not know too much about Atheism just yet because I don't mind Richard Dawkins? is there something wrong with me? I have watched so many of his debates and I find him to be quite a gentleman. You guys can straighten me out on this - I don't mind, because I am just learning.

Don't feel bad, Margee. It's hip to hate Dawkins these days. We forget how his contributions (The God Delusion in particular) have increased awareness and open discussion concerning atheism.

 

 

Thanks Florduh! - I like Dawkins!

 

Good news Margee...Nobody gets to "straighten you out" anymore. You can hate or love whom you please

[Wade]

A friend of mine died a couple of months ago, he was an ex-christian but we didn't talk about it much... I assumed that most people knew. At his funeral I was surprised at the amount of religious talk (mainly from his family)... he either didn't tell them or that was their coping mechanism.

 

It wasn't what I expected... but it didn't bother me.

 

That would theoretically piss me off if it were about me. My family knows where I stand and if they want to believe, that's fine, but I hope they don't try and argue some sort of secret deathbed reconversion for me. My uncle was pretty non religious, and yet when he died, they drew upon stories, that I'm pretty sure were exaggerated and contrived that he had sought solace in religion during his last days. Likewise, my grandfather, who was vocally anti religion, and while a very loving person, was arguably an angry atheist. Yet, when he died in his mid 90s, my family tried to argue that he had drawn closer to god in his last months. This shit just pisses me off as much as I love my family. They can justify it for themselves, but religion is the bane of my life, and it offends me that they might try and justify it with me in my final days. My wife agrees and has made it clear that if they try that with me, she will balk and balk vociferously.

 

 

I can understand that. I think it would me as well. If anything, it was an indication of the people that he didn't tell. Almost like a dark secret that he had to literally take to the grave. Seeing the whole thing from my perspective made me feel sorry for his family and despise christianity that much more. I wasn't pissed at the people, I was pissed at what religion had done to them.

[Vomit Comet]

VC you're just more of the same, imo.

 

Investigate your spirituality all you want, as long as it doesn't get us into another war.

[unexpectedex]

I wouldnt want to burst anyone's bubble.Who would?If someone says ''My mom is happy in heaven''..I couldnt even get myself to say anything then ''Yes thats great.'' Its just to hard.But I am cautious when it comes to people believing in the christian version of heaven.Because I've found many times that there is dark side to it.I knew a girl that had a twin sister who got hit by a car when she was fourteen.The poor girl died within hours and her twin was left to deal with it.I was young at the time,about ten,so one of my friends at the church asked the adults ''Did God let her into heaven? He wouldnt turn her away would he?'' They said ''We dont know if she made it into heaven.We hope he let her come in but we dont know if she was saved.'' I guess they ment she might have gone to hell but they didnt want to say that.If you are going to believe in heaven I wouldnt suggest that one..because if you read the bible and realize that the person might be in hell..thats even worse then death!

[lunaticheathen]

As to Dawkins, "Neo-Atheists" and the like, what gets my goat is the use of the word "religion" when they are clearly disparaging the fundamentalist camps of Christianity and Islam. And they act like any belief in anything that isn't purely rational and scientific makes one less of a person. I take serious offense at being thrown in with the idiots that build Touchdown Jesus and the Creationist Museum. Yes, fundamentalism in religion is a scourge, and those in it are largely very ignorant. But I am an theist, and I am not them. But it would seem I am viewed as the same. For me, it's not about being "hip", it's about a lack of basic fucking respect, and not seeing past my beliefs, which harm NO ONE AT ALL.

 

As to "bursting their bubble", I recently had to help my boyfriend through the illness and death of his mother. She was a devout Christian, as is his older brother. My boyfriend asked me to not pray to my gods for his mother, because he did not want to disrespect her beliefs, and I obliged. I'd except the same respect, in the same situation. I was also tight-lipped with his older brother - it simply is not the time or the place to bring up religious debates when a loved one is dead or dying. It would have solved nothing, changed no one's mind, and caused more stress for my boyfriend.

[YellowJacket]

I think telling the elderly that their long held beliefs in salvation, heaven, etc are foolishness isn't really helping them. This song comes to mind:

 

 

yeah, inappropriate.

[Suzy]

As to Dawkins, "Neo-Atheists" and the like, what gets my goat is the use of the word "religion" when they are clearly disparaging the fundamentalist camps of Christianity and Islam. And they act like any belief in anything that isn't purely rational and scientific makes one less of a person. I take serious offense at being thrown in with the idiots that build Touchdown Jesus and the Creationist Museum. Yes, fundamentalism in religion is a scourge, and those in it are largely very ignorant. But I am an theist, and I am not them. But it would seem I am viewed as the same. For me, it's not about being "hip", it's about a lack of basic fucking respect, and not seeing past my beliefs, which harm NO ONE AT ALL.

 

 

I used to be a fundie. I have read "God delusion" and I found myself agree with Dawkins on most things (although not on everything). Maybe he appeals more to those, who came from a fundie background, because what he writes corresponds to our experiences in the church. Perhaps another reason why I liked his book is that it was the first anti-Xtian book I ever read, and after my deconversion it was a good way for me to vent it.

[lunaticheathen]

Ok, I can see how books like The God Delusion can be an antidote to fundamentalist christianity - but can it breed militant atheism? I think so. I've encountered too many who say things like "religion is a mental illness" to think otherwise. And all of the arguments for the harmful and violent parts of "religion" come from two religions.

I have a Religious Studies degree. I've studied many, many religions, most of them bearing no resemblance to christianity or islam. So blanket statements and sneering belittlement of "religion" really make me think that such a person thinks lesser of anyone with any belief - not just the one that harmed them personally. What has an animistic Thai Buddhist done to them to earn a label of "mentally ill" from someone who has just read some atheist literature? I was once told that I was MORE stupid than christians for being a polytheistic animist! And I never asked them to believe as me, or threaten them with torment if they didn't. I didn't even pass judgment on their intelligence or spiritual state. But I did get offended. Wouldn't you?

It's a big big world out there, and religions come in more flavors than just judgmental Abrahamism.