BrotherJosh Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I just got done watching an episode of "Our America with Lisa Ling" focused on faith healers, it was interesting to watch the kind of people who go to these type of revivals. There's a man who suffered severe spinal and brain injuries who wishes, believes, that he will walk again. A bunch of people stand around him and try to brace his shaking legs as he desperately tries to take a step. Moderate Christianity always bothered me, because it didn't seem real, it always seemed evident to me, that if Christianity, or the Bible God was real, people should be being healed of cancer, paralysis or whatever other diseases. These healing revivals SHOULD work, you'd think! Anyways, it was sad to see genuinely sick and dying people be manipulated into believing ridiculous things, and when their faith was finally confronted, enter a state of denial. For example, the man in the wheelchair, firmly believed he would be healed and would push his chair out of the doors that night. When he didn't he chalked it up to God's Plan and having a new body in heaven. The terminally ill cancer woman left the revival being worse off than she was. And the worst part, those who aren't healed, "didn't have enough faith," as the preacher drives around in a brand new truck. It is a extreme view of every church than I ever saw, but it is revealing to see it taken to an extreme, so that people can see the subtle tricks of manipulation and mass hysteria present in these environments, and how people, "just want to believe." They'll believe in anything, as long as they believe, as if "belief" is some noble ideal. Anyways, thought you all might be interested.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I couldn't prove this in court, but I strongly believe that almost every "minister" who engages in "healing" services, knows that he or she is a fraud and does it solely for the money. They are masters of mass manipulation and hypnotism. They know damn good and well that they have no more sway over bible god than anyone else does, but they sell their "gift" for a handsome profit. They are hucksters of the worst kind and they should be kicked in their collective asses. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 My father got a brain stroke about 10 years ago (he was a Xtian then as well). He is tied to bed since then. He think it's a miracle he hasn't died. One has to wonder if God had enough power and will to not to let him die and save his life why did he stop half way and why didn't he heal him totally? It's not a very good life to be tied to bed. And my dad was a Xtian when it happened. Why did God let this happen to him? Oh I know, we can't know God's ways, bla-bla-bla. My father is a believer in miracle faith healing. Their church believes in that. They keep praying for him since this happened. Of course, there's no change in his condition. While my church was a believer of miracle healing and people kept praying for such things and believed in it, I can honestly say in my 20 years in the church I have never witnessed a miracle healing personally. You always hear rumours that, 'oh, there was a miracle healing here and there, oh someone got resurrected by prayer in Africa", but I have never witnessed anything like this. One of the pastors had cancer and he died.... We once took a woman to church who had cancer but she died. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Like the pallet of prayer requests you see on "this is your day" of benny hinn, probably the letters are very old and just keep adding to the pile. If these are all the weekly requests, one must ask oneself how they pull this shit off? Of course no one writes or calls in and says the prayers did not work. Why does god need a benny hinn to intercede on your behalf, is jeebus not the great intercessor between you and his megalomaniac father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowJacket Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Jeee sauce!!! that's that scoundrel Todd Bently. he was pretty much run out of town on a rail, is holed up back in Canada hiding from the scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I couldn't prove this in court, but I strongly believe that almost every "minister" who engages in "healing" services, knows that he or she is a fraud and does it solely for the money. They are masters of mass manipulation and hypnotism. They know damn good and well that they have no more sway over bible god than anyone else does, but they sell their "gift" for a handsome profit. They are hucksters of the worst kind and they should be kicked in their collective asses. I'm too wondering how many of these miracle healers know they are a fraud and how many truly believe in it. I personally think pastors in my church really believed in it. Not that it really worked, as I said above, but they believed it could happen. Now, whether those world famous "miracle healers", who make a living out of it, know? I'd like to know.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering_Cookie Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 My dad is one of the monsters you speak of. At the pulpit he was very convincing...he is known as a very entertaining faith healer. Of course, the real him is an a hole. I don't know if i'd feel better if he knew he was a fraud or not. What helped my de conversion was when I worked at his ministru typing up reciept letters and realized how we could afford a nice lifestyle. I felt so sick, and left to become poor and happy. It's glorious. I met a lot of faith healers, big name ones as well....off the pulpit I can say they are as greedy as casino owners. It's frightening... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Christians piss me off so much that I wouldn't mind getting filthy rich being a faith healer. If they're dumb enough to give me their money I'll take it. Maybe that's how a lot of the faith healers can do it without their conscience getting the best of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I couldn't prove this in court, but I strongly believe that almost every "minister" who engages in "healing" services, knows that he or she is a fraud and does it solely for the money. They are masters of mass manipulation and hypnotism. They know damn good and well that they have no more sway over bible god than anyone else does, but they sell their "gift" for a handsome profit. They are hucksters of the worst kind and they should be kicked in their collective asses. I'd say that's true of the showier types like Benny Hinn, but personal experience tells me some are honestly sincere. My uncle was one of them. He was way out in left field charismatic, touchy-feely, Katherine Kuhlman meets Tony Robbins, but he was also sincere as hell. Even when he was on his death bed suffering from late stage bone cancer he told me with confidence and assurance that we would meet in Italy the next year because god would heal him. He was just a small time pastor, but his love was real and felt by the community. So much so that literally thousands came to his funeral even though his church only had 100-200. I don't know why he believed so strongly other than confirmation bias as I doubt he ever saw anything close to a fantastic result even though he believed in fantastic things, such as the ability to raise the dead. There was no evidence so strong that could ever dissuade the man. Belief is a powerful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I couldn't prove this in court, but I strongly believe that almost every "minister" who engages in "healing" services, knows that he or she is a fraud and does it solely for the money. They are masters of mass manipulation and hypnotism. They know damn good and well that they have no more sway over bible god than anyone else does, but they sell their "gift" for a handsome profit. They are hucksters of the worst kind and they should be kicked in their collective asses. I'd say that's true of the showier types like Benny Hinn, but personal experience tells me some are honestly sincere. My uncle was one of them. He was way out in left field charismatic, touchy-feely, Katherine Kuhlman meets Tony Robbins, but he was also sincere as hell. Even when he was on his death bed suffering from late stage bone cancer he told me with confidence and assurance that we would meet in Italy the next year because god would heal him. He was just a small time pastor, but his love was real and felt by the community. So much so that literally thousands came to his funeral even though his church only had 100-200. I don't know why he believed so strongly other than confirmation bias as I doubt he ever saw anything close to a fantastic result even though he believed in fantastic things, such as the ability to raise the dead. There was no evidence so strong that could ever dissuade the man. Belief is a powerful thing. I understand what you're saying, Vigile. I have seen pastors of churches, usually small ones, who will occasionally have a "healing" service. It's not the normal thing the pastor does in the church, but something that church members will come to him and ask for. In the services I have seen, the pastor would call all those who wished to participate either for themselves or be a stand-in for someone else to come forward to the altar. The people would come forward and kneel at the alter. Then the pastor would have a general prayer asking God to meet the needs of the people who were kneeling. He would then put a small amount of oil on his finger, and place his hand with that finger on the people's heads and pray for them individually. He made no extra money for these efforts and he never promised anyone that they would be healed. He always said it as they are asking for god's will to be done. In that situation, I know there was no fraud taking place. The pastor was sincere and he made no unwarranted promises and made no money from his efforts. I respect this sincere effort. Those pastors and parishioners who came forward are equal victims of a false religion. I am speaking of those hucksters who make bold promises and for whom this is a large part of their ministry. Like true fraud, they make promises they know will not be kept with the intention of having innocent people act on that knowingly false promise for the purpose of monetary gain. Unlike the pastor I wrote about above, these people are despicable and true frauds. And all of those who make these promises and drive their fancy Cadillacs and live in expensive homes are fraudulent, without exception. They know they are lying. I have no respect for them at all. Those who come forward and who give what little money that many of them have are, in my opinion, victims of the "healer's" fraud and I have the greatest sympathy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 28, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have been to hundreds of these types of services over the last 30 years. You name it - I've been 'prayed over' for it. I do believe that some of these services and ministers are quite sincere - I know that. I was sincere in my believing. I walked out of so many services disappointed in God for not taking an addiction or a 'mind set' away from me. I would get out in the car and wonder why I wasn't special enough for god to help me with something that I felt so sincere about. I would call the pastor a few days later and he would always say the same things - It wasn't god's timing, not enough faith, didn't want 'it' as bad as I said I did, or I was told that Satan had his grips on me. They even asked me if there was anything in my home, that I could have opened up the 'door' to let the devil in. I came home and 'cleansed' my house more times than I can remember. I was even told that it could be a 'past curse' from one of my relatives. I watched one night as a girl came out to our big church in a wheelchair to a very special healing service. I have honestly never seen 1,000 people pray for this girl like they did that night. She couldn't get out of the wheelchair. She just couldn't. We all cried for her so much that night. The pastor told her that God obviously had a 'ministry' for her to do from the wheelchair and that she would be 'blessed' of god, to obey what he wanted. I look back now and I could puke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have seen pastors of churches, usually small ones, who will occasionally have a "healing" service. It's not the normal thing the pastor does in the church, I know the type you talk about. My uncle was not that type. I haven't been to his church more than once or twice, and that when I was just a kid, but I suspect he had healing services every week because that was a constant topic of discussion. I have been along with him when he did rounds to pray for cancer patients and such. He was a lovable fool, but a fool just the same and absolutely sincere. His parishioners were hippy types and low income, simple people. He died leaving my aunt nothing but her pension so he didn't take advantage of anyone, but he was a died-in-the wool, hands on healer, not just an occasional, good-hearted one. Perhaps he's a bad example as he was indeed an outlier in more than one area of his life. I miss that lunatic dearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom from Guilt Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Awesome!! Phil Collins had this thing figured out 30 years ago... Why'd it take me so long to understand?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menandgods Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Since discovering this discussion forum, I've wondered how many people here who come from pentecostal or charismatic backgrounds have EVER experienced or witnessed a genuine healing. ANYBODY??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I am always in conversation with a friend of mine who is diabetic and believes god will bless him and heal him if he gives up man's medicine and rely upon god. I told him he was going to die waiting on the lord. He went back to taking his insulin. The church feeds off of these types of people in order to give them a false hope of a miracle healing. People have been raised to be just this gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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