Fear

[Guest end3]

Just because I am bored......a thread about fear.

 

As a child, my biggest fear was a lion or tiger or something coming through my bedroom window.

 

As an adult, my first inclination is that I personally feal fear when I think about losing something(s).

 

1) Losing or separation from people that I love....specifically my children.

2) Loss of the ability to support my family.

3) Death, but not so much a quick death as one that I know that I will die within a given time frame....but the resulting separation.

4) Fear of failure, embarrassment as a human.

 

Anyway, those are the biggies that immediately come to mind....I am sure there are more.

 

So, I would please like to know perhaps your list and how this relates to fear as a tool by Christianity to manipulate.

[LivingLife]

I do not have a fear list per se but fear of the unknown, was at a time a factor. It is this fear that religion preys on offer what they think is a plausible answer when in fact there absolutely no proof of their assertions whether xian, buddhist or whatever.

 

I think as one get older w/o religious indoctrination, fears subside. I am no longer anxious about death.

[Phanta]

So, I would please like to know perhaps your list and how this relates to fear as a tool by Christianity to manipulate.

 

The biggest Christian manipulation is eternal damnation. All manipulation flows from there.

[BrotherJosh]

One of my fears or rather concerns of Christianity is the subtle and subversive ways it is naturally geared towards being able to assimilate a culture while at the same time destroying that same culture. There are giant missionary organizations geared towards sending out professional missionaries who are trained to descend upon a certain ethnic group and penetrate that ethnic groups cultural barriers. Since many of these groups already have their own culture, traditions, beliefs, institutions, value systems and language, Christian missionaries effectively penetrate past these and co-opt the language and concepts only to fashion them into a quasi-Christian culture. In fact, many missionaries are encouraged to "re-contextualize" Christianity in order for it to be more applicable to whatever ethnic group that missionary is witnessing to. One of the best ways to do this is by learning the language, and then learn ways to twist certain indigenous concepts around so that they then fit with a western, European, Christian concept. A great example of this would be Bruce Olson who becomes a missionary to a South American tribe at 19. At one point he introduces the concept of God and Jesus, and effectively re-contextualizes this concept as "walking the trail" of God, an important phrase with that tribe. An even greater and far more malicious example are the Jesuits in the 1600's and the tactics they used to penetrate and dominate Native American people, not just culturally but economically as well. All in all, I see Christianity as a very effective virus, that can quickly adapt and change always sprouting up in different ways and places. A great example of that adaptability of Christianity is the way it will try to twist and "re-contextualize" itself in order to fit with the latest scientific knowledge.

[Antlerman]

Just because I am bored......a thread about fear.

 

As a child, my biggest fear was a lion or tiger or something coming through my bedroom window.

 

As an adult, my first inclination is that I personally feal fear when I think about losing something(s).

 

1) Losing or separation from people that I love....specifically my children.

2) Loss of the ability to support my family.

3) Death, but not so much a quick death as one that I know that I will die within a given time frame....but the resulting separation.

4) Fear of failure, embarrassment as a human.

 

Anyway, those are the biggies that immediately come to mind....I am sure there are more.

 

So, I would please like to know perhaps your list and how this relates to fear as a tool by Christianity to manipulate.

To live in fear is to not live free. We fear the loss of what we look to possess. We look to possess what we imagine gives us life. If we release our hold on others or things, then we no longer fear their loss, then we truly live and genuinely enjoy as them truly as they are, in the present.

 

Fear is usually a sign for us to look into why we fear loss. Freedom possess nothing.

[Margee]

 

To live in fear is to not live free. We fear the loss of what we look to possess. We look to possess what we imagine gives us life. If we release our hold on others or things, then we no longer fear their loss, then we truly live and genuinely enjoy as them truly as they are, in the present.

 

Fear is usually a sign for us to look into why we fear loss. Freedom possess nothing.

 

WOW! Thanks!

[Galien]

When i was a kid I was afraid of that witch from Snow White who lived in my wardrobe or under my bed. I was afraid that my father would end up kiliing my mother during the nightly beatings he gave her, but not afraid enough not to try and run up his back and pull his hair to get him off her. I was afraid we would not have food, which we often didn't because my father would drink our food money. I was afraid I would get teased at school because I was poor and looked it, so I used to sit in the park with the drunks all day instead of face my nasty peers. When I was nine I was afraid that my sister and I would stay in the home we were put in when our father left forever. I was afraid that the minister who ran the home would continue to seuxally assault me. Lucky for me we got out after a year, and now I was a christian, so a whole new realm of fear was about to open up to me.

 

From about 12 to 25 because of the stupid things pentecostal christian told me, I was terrified that demons would get me. They would come and pray them out of my room every week. I was afraid that I would continue to be picked on every day at high school because I was poor and ugly. I was afraid no one would ever love me because they used to tell me every day I was the ugliest girl in the world.

 

For most of my life my whole world was ruled by fear of some kind. Fear that I would never be good enough, or never be worthy of the sacrifice of Jesus. I have had breakdowns and OCD and depression brought on by the lies of christians, believed I was in hell. I have been completely traumatised by my life.

 

But for the last 18 months, I haven't been afraid of anything much. Last time I was pushed to the brink of suicide 5 years ago, and I really contemplated my own non-existence everything changed. It is like I went through a door where my perception sort of bent and nothing has been the same. I lost my fear of death and of the opinions of others.

 

These days my biggest fear is that the whole world will accept that how they look is more important than who they are. I don't want to live in a world of pretty, empty sheep.

[Galien]

When i was a kid I was afraid of that witch from Snow White who lived in my wardrobe or under my bed. I was afraid that my father would end up killing my mother during the nightly beatings he gave her, but not afraid enough not to try and run up his back and pull his hair to get him off her. I was afraid we would not have food, which we often didn't because my father would drink our food money. I was afraid I would get teased at school because I was poor and looked it, so I used to sit in the park with the drunks all day instead of face my nasty peers. When I was nine I was afraid that my sister and I would stay in the home we were put in when our father left forever. I was afraid that the minister who ran the home would continue to seuxally assault me. Lucky for me we got out after a year, and now I was a christian, so a whole new realm of fear was about to open up to me.

 

From about 12 to 25 because of the stupid things pentecostal christians told me, I was terrified that demons would get me. They would come and pray them out of my room every week. I was afraid that I would continue to be picked on every day at high school because I was poor and ugly. I was afraid no one would ever love me because they used to tell me every day I was the ugliest girl in the world.

 

For most of my life my whole world was ruled by fear of some kind. Fear that I would never be good enough, or never be worthy of the sacrifice of Jesus. I have had breakdowns and OCD and depression brought on by the lies of christians, believed I was in hell. I have been completely traumatised by my life.

 

But for the last 18 months, I haven't been afraid of anything much. Last time I was pushed to the brink of suicide 5 years ago, and I really contemplated my own non-existence everything changed. It is like I went through a door where my perception sort of bent and nothing has been the same. I lost my fear of death and of the opinions of others.

 

These days my biggest fear is that the whole world will accept that how they look is more important than who they are. I don't want to live in a world of pretty, empty sheep.

[Guest end3]

I do not have a fear list per se but fear of the unknown, was at a time a factor. It is this fear that religion preys on offer what they think is a plausible answer when in fact there absolutely no proof of their assertions whether xian, buddhist or whatever.

 

I think as one get older w/o religious indoctrination, fears subside. I am no longer anxious about death.

 

Fair enough. My personal interpretation at this point is that Christianity offers "to know" and to "be known". I don't have any quarrels with your lack of proof perspective.

[Margee]

To live in fear is to not live free. We fear the loss of what we look to possess. We look to possess what we imagine gives us life. If we release our hold on others or things, then we no longer fear their loss, then we truly live and genuinely enjoy as them truly as they are, in the present.

 

Fear is usually a sign for us to look into why we fear loss. Freedom possess nothing.

 

WOW! Thanks!

 

You would have to know my whole life story to understand why fear has been my best friend for my whole life. Some of it is not pretty and I had reason to become afraid, from even when I was a little girl.

 

Then to make matters even worse -I got involved with Pentecostals,(at 20 years old) thinking that god would fix my whole life. Not so. You've read some of my story. I came to the lord when I was fairly innocent. Yeah - I cursed some and smoked cigarettes but never did drugs or alcohol.

 

I just wanted to be closer to god - that's all. He could guide my life and then everything would be alright. NOT. The religion scared me more! Now I was afraid of the lord and the god-damned devil! I didn't even know there was a devil until I got involved with the Pentecostal church!

 

I am afraid to be close to people, I am definitely afraid of losing, I am even afraid of not believing in god..................... I always seem to be afraid. Losing has been a big part of my life. I love - I lose either to people walking away or dying. Some I have chased off because of fear of getting to close. So I hold tight to the control strings and won't let go.

 

 

That is why the above quote hit me like a ton of bricks.

I am trying so hard not to be afraid of this fear that has controlled my life for so long! Maybe - if I do release my hold on 'things' - the fear will go away.

 

I'll try - it's the best I can do right now. At least I'm aware! Thanks

[RankStranger]

Just because I am bored......a thread about fear.

 

As a child, my biggest fear was a lion or tiger or something coming through my bedroom window.

 

As an adult, my first inclination is that I personally feal fear when I think about losing something(s).

 

1) Losing or separation from people that I love....specifically my children.

2) Loss of the ability to support my family.

3) Death, but not so much a quick death as one that I know that I will die within a given time frame....but the resulting separation.

4) Fear of failure, embarrassment as a human.

 

Anyway, those are the biggies that immediately come to mind....I am sure there are more.

 

So, I would please like to know perhaps your list and how this relates to fear as a tool by Christianity to manipulate.

To live in fear is to not live free. We fear the loss of what we look to possess. We look to possess what we imagine gives us life. If we release our hold on others or things, then we no longer fear their loss, then we truly live and genuinely enjoy as them truly as they are, in the present.

 

Fear is usually a sign for us to look into why we fear loss. Freedom possess nothing.

 

That's pretty insightful, and I generally agree.

 

My biggest fear seems to be winding up homeless and destitute. Or in prison ('cause that's where poor people end up). It's a real motivator for me... to make more money. I get by ok- my pay is nothing special, but I'm doing better than most of my peers. But I fully understand that no matter how much money I make, it'll NEVER be enough. I don't particularly care about expensive gadgets, fancy vehicles, a fancy house... I'm just not interested. All I want is some financial security.

 

And as true as it might be that "to live in fear is to not live free", I can't just wish away the society and economy in which I live. To be poor in the U.S. is to be a second-class citizen. If you're poor, you have essentially no legal rights. You have little access to (good) education, healthcare, etc. You're just one bad car wreck away from being homeless.

 

IOW, I'm not free. But that ain't exactly a revelation.

[Overcame Faith]

I am trying so hard not to be afraid of this fear that has controlled my life for so long! Maybe - if I do release my hold on 'things' - the fear will go away.

 

I'll try - it's the best I can do right now. At least I'm aware! Thanks

 

I'm sure you will continue to make progress in this area. Unwarranted fear is like a very dirty surface. It may be difficult to get clean, but it can be done if you keep working at it. Keep working at it. You'll get there.

[Guest end3]

One of my fears or rather concerns of Christianity is the subtle and subversive ways it is naturally geared towards being able to assimilate a culture while at the same time destroying that same culture. There are giant missionary organizations geared towards sending out professional missionaries who are trained to descend upon a certain ethnic group and penetrate that ethnic groups cultural barriers. Since many of these groups already have their own culture, traditions, beliefs, institutions, value systems and language, Christian missionaries effectively penetrate past these and co-opt the language and concepts only to fashion them into a quasi-Christian culture. In fact, many missionaries are encouraged to "re-contextualize" Christianity in order for it to be more applicable to whatever ethnic group that missionary is witnessing to. One of the best ways to do this is by learning the language, and then learn ways to twist certain indigenous concepts around so that they then fit with a western, European, Christian concept. A great example of this would be Bruce Olson who becomes a missionary to a South American tribe at 19. At one point he introduces the concept of God and Jesus, and effectively re-contextualizes this concept as "walking the trail" of God, an important phrase with that tribe. An even greater and far more malicious example are the Jesuits in the 1600's and the tactics they used to penetrate and dominate Native American people, not just culturally but economically as well. All in all, I see Christianity as a very effective virus, that can quickly adapt and change always sprouting up in different ways and places. A great example of that adaptability of Christianity is the way it will try to twist and "re-contextualize" itself in order to fit with the latest scientific knowledge.

 

I can't help but think we are all guilty of this by various means and expectations. I don't know that we are able to free ourselves of our own perspectives to share a more pure representation of truth. I assume from a Christian standpoint, the truth delivered to the believer through the Holy Spirit should at some point, supercede any errant assimilation.

[Galien]

Fair enough. My personal interpretation at this point is that Christianity offers "to know" and to "be known". I don't have any quarrels with your lack of proof perspective.

 

Really, because I find Christians have more masks than non-christians. They spend a lot of time talking about who they are, but actually letting you get close enough to know who they really are? Not in my experience. I'm not sure most of them even know themselves. Seems to me like they love you if you spout the right bullshit but ignore you pretty damn quickly if you don't.

[Margee]

I am trying so hard not to be afraid of this fear that has controlled my life for so long! Maybe - if I do release my hold on 'things' - the fear will go away.

 

I'll try - it's the best I can do right now. At least I'm aware! Thanks

 

I'm sure you will continue to make progress in this area. Unwarranted fear is like a very dirty surface. It may be difficult to get clean, but it can be done if you keep working at it. Keep working at it. You'll get there.

 

thanks for that vote of confidence Overcame! I appreciate it!

[Guest end3]

To live in fear is to not live free. We fear the loss of what we look to possess. We look to possess what we imagine gives us life. If we release our hold on others or things, then we no longer fear their loss, then we truly live and genuinely enjoy as them truly as they are, in the present.

 

Fear is usually a sign for us to look into why we fear loss. Freedom possess nothing.

 

I don't know that it is adequate to equate life to enjoyment?

[BrotherJosh]

I can't help but think we are all guilty of this by various means and expectations. I don't know that we are able to free ourselves of our own perspectives to share a more pure representation of truth. I assume from a Christian standpoint, the truth delivered to the believer through the Holy Spirit should at some point, supercede any errant assimilation.

I actually agree with you in regards to culture, I think most of us are informed by a Western, European world view, so that even many atheists are "Christian" atheists in that their world view is still fueled by an undercurrent of a western perspective. I am myself subject to these perspectives, as are we all. Cultural imperialism is something that has been a facet of American life, often a side effect of it really. Shedding these perspectives is difficult, and I wonder if completely possible.

 

Truth, as delivered by the "Holy Spirit" is subjective based on perspectives, biases, whims and desires. But from the Christian perspective that would be what their ultimate goal is, is to seek a true interpretation of reality.

[Guest end3]

Fair enough. My personal interpretation at this point is that Christianity offers "to know" and to "be known". I don't have any quarrels with your lack of proof perspective.

 

Really, because I find Christians have more masks than non-christians. They spend a lot of time talking about who they are, but actually letting you get close enough to know who they really are? Not in my experience. I'm not sure most of them even know themselves. Seems to me like they love you if you spout the right bullshit but ignore you pretty damn quickly if you don't.

 

Christianity in the sense of a relationship "to know" Christ and "be known" by Christ. I agree with you on your statement. I know a whole churchload of folks, but don't really known or am known but a very few......and most are not even Christian....so yeah.

[Galien]

Fair enough. My personal interpretation at this point is that Christianity offers "to know" and to "be known". I don't have any quarrels with your lack of proof perspective.

 

Really, because I find Christians have more masks than non-christians. They spend a lot of time talking about who they are, but actually letting you get close enough to know who they really are? Not in my experience. I'm not sure most of them even know themselves. Seems to me like they love you if you spout the right bullshit but ignore you pretty damn quickly if you don't.

 

Christianity in the sense of a relationship "to know" Christ and "be known" by Christ. I agree with you on your statement. I know a whole churchload of folks, but don't really known are am known but a very few......and most are not even Christian....so yeah.

 

But what does that really even mean End? I thought that I knew christ and that he knew me, for 36 years. I was even dumb enough to believe he actually cared. All those years of experience have shown me is that if god is there, he doesn't give a shit. If one is a christian, and therefore dedicated to honesty and truth, one cannot ignore the total lack of evidence forever, surely? How much more suffering do I have to watch? All the tired christian explanations for everything, are no explanation at all.

[Antlerman]

To live in fear is to not live free. We fear the loss of what we look to possess. We look to possess what we imagine gives us life. If we release our hold on others or things, then we no longer fear their loss, then we truly live and genuinely enjoy as them truly as they are, in the present.

 

Fear is usually a sign for us to look into why we fear loss. Freedom possess nothing.

 

WOW! Thanks!

 

You would have to know my whole life story to understand why fear has been my best friend for my whole life. Some of it is not pretty and I had reason to become afraid, from even when I was a little girl.

 

Then to make matters even worse -I got involved with Pentecostals,(at 20 years old) thinking that god would fix my whole life. Not so. You've read some of my story. I came to the lord when I was fairly innocent. Yeah - I cursed some and smoked cigarettes but never did drugs or alcohol.

 

I just wanted to be closer to god - that's all. He could guide my life and then everything would be alright. NOT. The religion scared me more! Now I was afraid of the lord and the godamed devil! I didn't even know there was a devil until I got involved with the Pentecostal church!

When I joined up with the Pentecostals myself - yes, I really did... I had never had any thoughts of fear about God. All I wanted was to have more of the peace that was to me. In entering their ensnaring doors, suddenly God was this jealous man in heaven who wanted you to believe just as these people in this church did - or else! It was a very foreign way of looking at God to me, but not having confidence that I really understood these things, since I didn't have the Bible knowledge they did!, I submitted my mind and spirit to them, and God became this thing I thought I knew but didn't really. Until I finally realized they were not just intellectually and academically fools, they also had no genuine spiritual knowledge, let alone depth.

 

What they had was a religious system created and supported by those who themselves live in fear, looking to that system as their salvation, no differently than those who look to money and power and wealth and relationships, to save them from their ultimate dread, being empty and alone in the face of the vast unknown; the terror of themselves in the face of the Infinite; their existential death - "they" are no more.

 

This is why notions of things like an afterlife, happy reunions, sky-houses of shiny gold, dancing with angels around the throne of a Sun-God beaming out to them in their happy hunting grounds - never really dying, but just changing residence, only better!!, is merely a forestalling of facing that dread and moving beyond it, moving beyond fear. Simply saying God has saved me!, is not a salvation at all, but simply mentally forestalling that confrontation with the Void.

 

All the things we do in life, these 'projects' of creating a means of continuation of ourselves, in our self-identities, assuming we are who we imagine we are as what defines our essence, creating monuments to ourselves, protecting that shell of identity we imagine we are, are all what lays behind and generates that fear! If we loose all of those things, then we are alone! We are no more. Our identity is gone! We are dead! It is not merely the fear of physical death, but the end of "me", our notion of self, of who we believe we are.

 

And so we seek to hold on to all of these to hold on to ourselves; to that illusion of self. Never being free. Never knowing Release. In that Release, all is found, all is gained. It only takes one act; the end of ourselves, and fear is released. We become Free and our true Self.

 

How? Hold your life with an open hand. Don't identify yourself with your created world, your concerns, your worries, but embrace your being in the World. Go stand in an open field, hold your arms out, let the sky breath on you, release all your thoughts into Life, be Life itself, the wind touches you, you listen, you participate, you move into what is vastly beyond you, that you are part of, and you become That. You are not "you". You Are.

 

That's the start. That's the beginning. You are more than your worries and your fears. You are more than 'you'. Being and becoming. You find a different perceptive, and different experience of your being. This is the start.

[Galien]

And so we seek to hold on to all of these to hold on to ourselves; to that illusion of self. Never being free. Never knowing Release. In that Release, all is found, all is gained. It only takes one act; the end of ourselves, and fear is released. We become Free and our true Self.

 

How? Hold your life with an open hand. Don't identify yourself with your created world, your concerns, your worries, but embrace your being in the World. Go stand in an open field, hold your arms out, let the sky breath on you, release all your thoughts into Life, be Life itself, the wind touches you, you listen, you participate, you move into what is vastly beyond you, that you are part of, and you become That. You are not "you". You Are.

 

That's the start. That's the beginning. You are more than your worries and your fears. You are more than 'you'. Being and becoming. You find a different perceptive, and different experience of your being. This is the start.

 

This. +1. I have found it a truth that you cannot really find yourself until you are prepared to let go of yourself.

[Guest end3]

Fair enough. My personal interpretation at this point is that Christianity offers "to know" and to "be known". I don't have any quarrels with your lack of proof perspective.

 

Really, because I find Christians have more masks than non-christians. They spend a lot of time talking about who they are, but actually letting you get close enough to know who they really are? Not in my experience. I'm not sure most of them even know themselves. Seems to me like they love you if you spout the right bullshit but ignore you pretty damn quickly if you don't.

 

Christianity in the sense of a relationship "to know" Christ and "be known" by Christ. I agree with you on your statement. I know a whole churchload of folks, but don't really known are am known but a very few......and most are not even Christian....so yeah.

 

But what does that really even mean End? I thought that I knew christ and that he knew me, for 36 years. I was even dumb enough to believe he actually cared. All those years of experience have shown me is that if god is there, he doesn't give a shit. If one is a christian, and therefore dedicated to honesty and truth, one cannot ignore the total lack of evidence forever, surely? How much more suffering do I have to watch? All the tired christian explanations for everything, are no explanation at all.

 

Not trying to deflect Gal, but what lack of evidence......insincere Christians or lack of God proof, or are you saying insincere Christians ARE lack of God proof?

[Deva]

I am incredibly frightened of being homeless and destitute. This has increased since I lost my job last year. I am presently working but in constant fear of being fired.

[RankStranger]

I am incredibly frightened of being homeless and destitute. This has increased since I lost my job last year. I am presently working but in constant fear of being fired.

 

Yeah, I know the feeling. In reality, worst case scenario is that I'd probably end up living with friends or relatives. But that would still be mighty unpleasant, and there's nothing fun about being poor.

 

This is an interesting thread, and I enjoy Antlerman's perspective. It rings true, and I think I've managed to 'let go' in several areas of my life. But how can you completely 'let go' when reality is just waiting to bite you in the ass?

[Margee]

[

 

 

 

When I joined up with the Pentecostals myself - yes, I really did... I had never had any thoughts of fear about God. All I wanted was to have more of the peace that was to me. In entering their ensnaring doors, suddenly God was this jealous man in heaven who wanted you to believe just as these people in this church did - or else! It was a very foreign way of looking at God to me, but not having confidence that I really understood these things, since I didn't have the Bible knowledge they did!, I submitted my mind and spirit to them, and God became this thing I thought I knew but didn't really. Until I finally realized they were not just intellectually and academically fools, they also had no genuine spiritual knowledge, let alone depth.

 

What they had was a religious system created and supported by those who themselves live in fear, looking to that system as their salvation, no differently than those who look to money and power and wealth and relationships, to save them from their ultimate dread, being empty and alone in the face of the vast unknown; the terror of themselves in the face of the Infinite; their existential death - "they" are no more.

 

This is why notions of things like an afterlife, happy reunions, sky-houses of shiny gold, dancing with angels around the throne of a Sun-God beaming out to them in their happy hunting grounds - never really dying, but just changing residence, only better!!, is merely a forestalling of facing that dread and moving beyond it, moving beyond fear. Simply saying God has saved me!, is not a salvation at all, but simply mentally forestalling that confrontation with the Void.

 

All the things we do in life, these 'projects' of creating a means of continuation of ourselves, in our self-identities, assuming we are who we imagine we are as what defines our essence, creating monuments to ourselves, protecting that shell of identity we imagine we are, are all what lays behind and generates that fear! If we loose all of those things, then we are alone! We are no more. Our identity is gone! We are dead! It is not merely the fear of physical death, but the end of "me", our notion of self, of who we believe we are.

 

And so we seek to hold on to all of these to hold on to ourselves; to that illusion of self. Never being free. Never knowing Release. In that Release, all is found, all is gained. It only takes one act; the end of ourselves, and fear is released. We become Free and our true Self.

 

How? Hold your life with an open hand. Don't identify yourself with your created world, your concerns, your worries, but embrace your being in the World. Go stand in an open field, hold your arms out, let the sky breath on you, release all your thoughts into Life, be Life itself, the wind touches you, you listen, you participate, you move into what is vastly beyond you, that you are part of, and you become That. You are not "you". You Are.

 

That's the start. That's the beginning. You are more than your worries and your fears. You are more than 'you'. Being and becoming. You find a different perceptive, and different experience of your being. This is the start.

 

More, Antler, more! Write a book!

 

More of this good stuff! thank you!