SirPhoenix Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 So in browsing the interweb, I decided to search out what kind of arguments the fundies have regarding evolution. To sum it up....not a lot. It all seems to boil down to what the bible says regarding creation. To the credit of the group Answers in Genesis, they at least attempt this approach. The article http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/22/bible-is-true starts off illustrating how some of the arguments we all know and ...er... love are (gasp) circular. I was shocked at this level of honesty. That was until I came upon the glittering jewel of collosal ignorance that they called the Standard of Standards. This is exerpted below. "...we must admit that none of the above lines of evidence quite proves that the Bible must be the inerrant Word of God. Critics have their counterarguments to all of the above. If we are to know for certain that the Bible is true, we will need a different kind of argument—one that is absolutely conclusive and irrefutable. In all the above cases, we took as an unstated premise that there are certain standards by which we judge how likely something is true. When we stop to consider what these standards are, we will see that the standards themselves are proof that the Bible is true.Putting it another way, only the Bible can make sense of the standards by which we evaluate whether or not something is true. One such set of standards are the laws of logic. We all know that a true claim cannot contradict another true claim. That would violate a law of logic: the law of non-contradiction. The statements “The light is red” and “The light is not red” cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense. Laws of logic thus represent a standard by which we can judge certain truth claims. Moreover, all people seem to “know” laws like the law of non-contradiction. We all assume that such laws are the same everywhere and apply at all times without exception. But why is this? How do we know such things? If we consider the biblical worldview, we find that we can make sense of the laws of logic. The Bible tells us that God’s mind is the standard for all knowledge (Colossians 2:3). Since God upholds the entire universe and since He is beyond time, we would expect that laws of logic apply everywhere in the universe and at all times. There can never be an exception to a law of logic because God’s mind is sovereign over all truth. We can know laws of logic because we are made in God’s image and are thus able to think in a way that is consistent with His nature (Genesis 1:27). So, when we take the Bible as our worldview, we find that laws of logic make sense. But if we don’t accept the Bible as true, we are left without a foundation for laws of logic. How could we know (apart from God) that laws of logic work everywhere? After all, none of us have universal knowledge. We have not experienced the future nor have we travelled to distant regions of the universe. Yet we assume that laws of logic will work in the future as they have in the past and that they work in the distant cosmos as they work here. But how could we possibly know that apart from revelation from God? Arguing that laws of logic have worked in our past experiences is pointless—because that’s not the question. The question is: how can we know that they will work in the future or in regions of space that we have never visited? Only the Christian worldview can make sense of the universal, exception-less, unchanging nature of laws of logic. Apart from the truth revealed in the Bible, we would have no reason to assume that laws of logic apply everywhere at all times, yet we all do assume this. Only the Christian has a good reason to presume the continued reliability of logic. The non-Christian does not have such a reason in his own professed worldview, and so he is being irrational: believing something without a good reason. The unbeliever has only “blind faith” but the Christian’s faith in the Bible makes knowledge possible." So, let me get this straight. Logic in fact prooves the bible? Isn't is logic that has led so many of us to question the bible in the first place. Apparently as soon as you dismiss the bible, you can no longer have logic, so you have no reason to disbelieve. Take that brain. That'll teach you to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Self-delusion is the hallmark of Christianity. One thing I noticed is it often twists reality. Evil is considered good and good is considered evil. Ignorance and fear are desired while intelligence is rejected. False and twisted ideas are called logic, or truth; while rational thought is considered dangerous and sinful. Talk about backwards-world! That's the reason I pleaded with my Christian friends to escape, the delusions can and often do destroy or severely cripple your life, not to mention the destruction you bring in to other people's lives. Then you have to deal with the guilt later, that is if you ever escape.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 the glittering jewel of collosal ignorance that they called the Standard of Standards. This is exerpted below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPhoenix Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 @chosendarkness You just make me think of Superman and Bizarro World. I laughed so hard I snorted. All the fundies are living in bizarro world. Me love Jesus. Lmfao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The unbeliever has only “blind faith” but the Christian’s faith in the Bible makes knowledge possible. lol uh That's kinda..silly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Only the Christian worldview can make sense of the universal, exception-less, unchanging nature of laws of logic. Apart from the truth revealed in the Bible, we would have no reason to assume that laws of logic apply everywhere at all times, yet we all do assume this. Only the Christian has a good reason to presume the continued reliability of logic. The non-Christian does not have such a reason in his own professed worldview, and so he is being irrational: believing something without a good reason. The unbeliever has only “blind faith” but the Christian’s faith in the Bible makes knowledge possible." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 @chosendarkness You just make me think of Superman and Bizarro World. I laughed so hard I snorted. All the fundies are living in bizarro world. Me love Jesus. Lmfao! You said it guy! Bizzaro world is exactly what it is. I've spent enough time away from it to clear my head, then recently I encountered a fundie Christian and was struck by how bizarre and twisted their view of the world is. Demons everywhere, invisible people flying around, fighting an invisible war. They believed it so strongly and it seemed so real to them I almost considered it for a second. Spirits attached to toasters, malign entities doing battle in major cities, demon protection incantations, blood-cleansing. It's nothing new though, people have always been like that. A large percentage of the world still believe witches live in the woods and pay for protection from their curses. Great material for a metal song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPhoenix Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 The bizarro analogy keeps getting better. In the DC Universe Bizarro world, all the inhabitants are either a version of Bizarro Superman or Bizarro Lois Lane. Ie, the entire population of that world are fucking clones of each other. Sound like any particular group we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Fundie... Logic? Mutually exclusive terms, I'd say. BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 When logic supposedly proves that God exists, then it's from God, but as soon as logic is used to prove that God does not exist, then it's from the Devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 When logic supposedly proves that God exists, then it's from God, but as soon as logic is used to prove that God does not exist, then it's from the Devil. Waitaminut!!! You're not Ouroboros! You're... Thumbelina!! BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 When logic supposedly proves that God exists, then it's from God, but as soon as logic is used to prove that God does not exist, then it's from the Devil. Waitaminut!!! You're not Ouroboros! You're... Thumbelina!! BAA. It's pretty head on, isn't it. But I could say it in one sentence. Thumbelina needs 20,000 words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyn Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 And out of that fundy 'logic' comes fundy algebra where 1+1=3 and (un)Intelligent Design that totally fucks up explains all the sciences at large. Fundy logic also uses part-time virgins, such as the formerly knocked-up virgin Bristol Palin, to explain abstinence to other Christian part-time virgins for $20K per lecture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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