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Am I the only one who sits up at night wondering if I am wrong? What if what the christians say is true? What if I will end up in hell? What if..........

 

I can tell myself over and over again that even if "he" does exist he is a liar and does not keep his word. But....... What if?

 

How did you all get from what if to I know?

 

I am so very tired. I wish somethimes that there was a magical pill that would take these questions out of my head. I just want to stop wondering what if.

 

Deb

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It's just the brainwashing. What helped me was doing the research on various pagan religions with hell myths of their own. Hell is an incredibly cruel doctrine meant to control people. It does not exist. If it did, it would've been proven to long ago. Whoever said hell came out of the garbage dump in Israel was probably right -- lots of myths like that tend to take on lives of their own after awhile. Not literally, but figuratively, like tall tales. You know, the ones where someone says "I caught a fish and it was 6 inches long," and with each retelling the fish grows until it becomes a 6-foot long fish or even a whale or something? Something like that probably started the whole myth, and the people in charge used it to control the citizens to this day. Don't let it control you.

 

And anyway, if you want to believe in it, better convert to Islam. Their hell is worse, from what I hear, and their heaven is supposedly better (at least if you're male).

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I have done the pagan thing. When I left chrisianity it was because I was mad at god. Losing my son was the last straw. I figured that if god wasn't going to help me then I was going to go get satan. (remember, I was taught that all witches were satan worshippers). I found out real quick that it wasn't what I thought it was. I tried to get involved and own about 40 pagan books.

 

It is just all these unwanted thoughts that I can't get rid of.

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It took me more years than I care to admit Deb. It just takes time and study - in my case, a lot of study - to overcome the feelings of doubt. The xtian meme is powerful because it plays heavily with your evolutionary psychological make up. You can read about this in more detain by going to Wikipedia.

 

I came to my own conclusions after studying a great deal of logical arguments and a bit of mythology. This website has provided me with a lot more reasons to reject the myth outright so I wish I had found it years ago. It would have made things a lot easier for me.

 

It can feel arrogant to state "I know." However, you can "know" what is not true in many cases. We can for example know that the bible is not without error, and therefore we can humbly reject Timothy when he claims that all scripture is god breathed. We can know that god cannot be both perfect, all powerful, and all knowing at the same time since these "limitations" contradict themselves.

 

There are more things in the world that we actually can't know. But I think there are enough things that we can actually know about xtianity and the bible that we can reject the whole religion and remain reasonable people in doing so.

 

My .02

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Am I the only one who sits up at night wondering if I am wrong? What if what the christians say is true? What if I will end up in hell? What if..........

 

I can tell myself over and over again that even if "he" does exist he is a liar and does not keep his word. But....... What if?

 

How did you all get from what if to I know?

 

I am so very tired. I wish somethimes that there was a magical pill that would take these questions out of my head. I just want to stop wondering what if.

 

Deb

 

have you read this letter? and other sites showing the histricity of the bible as being infactual? Did you read how the NT was TOTALLY reverse engineered from the greek translation of the hebrew OT?

 

http://www.jovialatheist.com/lettersfromgod.html

 

Let's say GOD does exist, a creator, our creator, even one that gives a shit about us. You'll feel his presense.

 

The Bible is Dick and Jane for the masses.

 

Read that letter. Be assured that Christians are fooling themselves. You have a better chance of reaching God, or at least your inner spirit, via Spirituality concepts than by any religion.

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I agree. My head agrees. My head says that he doesn't exist. it's my heart that questions. It sometimes is like I am trying to brainwash in reverse. Make sense?

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I agree. My head agrees. My head says that he doesn't exist. it's my heart that questions. It sometimes is like I am trying to brainwash in reverse. Make sense?

 

Well, what's the important one to realize the truth of? A creator God of the entire universe, or Just the biblegod and Adam&Eve's descendants?

 

The Bible only applies if you're part of that klan. If you're part of one of the other klans, then it's not your story, you're not bound by it.

 

I'm part of The Other People. You know how you can tell? If you're ashamed of your naked body, you're one of them. If you're not ashamed, you're one of The Other People.

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I'm part of The Other People.  You know how you can tell?  If you're ashamed of your naked body, you're one of them.  If you're not ashamed, you're one of The Other People.

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao: Sorry!! I am a little heavy so my shame come from my size. I just thought about me running around with my fat ass and it hit my funny bone. :lmao::lmao:

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you should love every inch of yourself, if not you, who? "God loves you" LOL :)

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I agree. My head agrees. My head says that he doesn't exist. it's my heart that questions. It sometimes is like I am trying to brainwash in reverse. Make sense?

 

Check this.

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next time you're in a book store, check out Dr. Wayne Dyer's books... pick up his first one (1976) and read it. has a very eye catching title. should only be 6.99 or so. may finally give you the key to unlock your freedom from the mental chains that still bind you up

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I agree. My head agrees. My head says that he doesn't exist. it's my heart that questions. It sometimes is like I am trying to brainwash in reverse. Make sense?

I know what you mean. Sometimes I allow my thoughts to generate fear in me, but I just have to put that stuff in the same context as monsters under the bed; like God is just Santa Clause for adults, Satan is the monster under the bed for adults.

 

Why do we choose to torment ourselves, from childhood all the way into adulthood? Does it give us a rush to scare ourselves? When it comes to this stuff, logic is irrelevant; it's all about the emotion of fear. If we don't like how it feels, then we should quit giving it life. IMHO :shrug:

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next time you're in a book store, check out Dr. Wayne Dyer's books... pick up his first one (1976) and read it.  has a very eye catching title.  should only be 6.99 or so.  may finally give you the key to unlock your freedom from the mental chains that still bind you up

 

 

Can i get more clues on this book? I order books from Amazon and I am not sure which one it is. After reading some from his books, I am very interested.

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you should love every inch of yourself, if not you, who?  "God loves you"  LOL :)

 

 

My husband seems to never see what I look like. It just doesn't matter to him. :HaHa:

 

God loves me??? :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

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Can i get more clues on this book? I order books from Amazon and I am not sure which one it is. After reading some from his books, I am very interested.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...indpost&p=96853 posted it in the Book thread

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I know what you mean.  Sometimes I allow my thoughts to generate fear in me, but I just have to put that stuff in the same context as monsters under the bed; like God is just Santa Clause for adults, Satan is the monster under the bed for adults. 

 

Why do we choose to torment ourselves, from childhood all the way into adulthood?  Does it give us a rush to scare ourselves?  When it comes to this stuff, logic is irrelevant; it's all about the emotion of fear.  If we don't like how it feels, then we should quit giving it life.  IMHO  :shrug:

 

I have finally gotten the "monsters" under my bed out of my system. See, growing up we always had "demons" in the house. For years I wasn't able to sleep because I would have sworn that "demons" were in the house. The first time was when I was 12 and my mother woke me up just to tell me that Satan himself was in the house and he was after me to kill me. She did this and then went to bed herself. I swear it is true (the story happened, not that satan was in the house).

 

I still have my moments maybe 4 times a year when I have this problem.

 

This is not something that I choose, it something that has been told to me for my entire life. Just like the thoughts that "everything that has happened to me has happened because god has a "big" plan for my life and satan is trying to stop it.

 

Unlogical I know, but there it is.

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I have finally gotten the "monsters" under my bed out of my system. See, growing up we always had "demons" in the house. For years I wasn't able to sleep because I would have sworn that "demons" were in the house. The first time was when I was 12 and my mother woke me up just to tell me that Satan himself was in the house and he was after me to kill me. She did this and then went to bed herself. I swear it is true (the story happened, not that satan was in the house).

 

I still have my moments maybe 4 times a year when I have this problem.

 

This is not something that I choose, it something that has been told to me for my entire life. Just like the thoughts that "everything that has happened to me has happened because god has a "big" plan for my life and satan is trying to stop it.

 

Unlogical I know, but there it is.

 

Hey Deb,

 

It's no surprise that you are having difficulty letting go. Your mother's "satan is in the house" routine was really over the top. This sort of brainwashing just takes years to get over. I'm really sorry that you were subjected to that. At least my parents left the fire and brimstone stories to the preacherman at church, not as a soothing bedtime story.

 

I found a great therapist to help me through this crap about 20 years ago. It was the best damned thing I ever did for myself. Your upbringing has elements of emotional scarring that is really hard to overcome. I'll bet you've found this board helpful, too. Good luck, hon.

 

Doesn't all of this just make you want to scream at the people who do this to kids now?

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nobody scares us better than we do, ourselves. others may put ideas out there, but we really blow them way out of proportion

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Hey Deb,

 

It's no surprise that you are having difficulty letting go.  Your mother's "satan is in the house" routine was really over the top.  This sort of brainwashing just takes years to get over.  I'm really sorry that you were subjected to that.  At least my parents left the fire and brimstone stories to the preacherman at church, not as a soothing bedtime story.

 

I found a great therapist to help me through this crap about 20 years ago.  It was the best damned thing I ever did for myself.  Your upbringing has elements of emotional scarring that is really hard to overcome.  I'll bet you've found this board helpful, too.  Good luck, hon. 

 

Doesn't all of this just make you want to scream at the people who do this to kids now?

 

 

Scream, holler, beat my head againt the wall. Mostly it just makes my heart break.

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nobody scares us better than we do, ourselves.  others may put ideas out there, but we really blow them way out of proportion

 

 

I didn't have to blow them out of purpotion, it was already done for me.

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Am I the only one who sits up at night wondering if I am wrong? What if what the christians say is true? What if I will end up in hell? What if..........

 

I can't speak for everyone here, but as far as I'm concerned (and no one else), yes.

However, I'm quite sure that there are others among the 4th reich ex-fundies who feel the same you feel.

 

You know, I have one advantage... the US fundie madness never really spread to Europe (except for some few exceptions like jehoover's witlesses, the morg et cetera) until recently. So, in today's Germany you will have to search for some time before you find a fundie. Most of us are of that disgustingly lukewarm ;) christian kind...

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Guest AdvancedAtheists

Just consider that christians have no security in heaven any way, considering that they can always rebel.

 

Though I've wondered about the Calvinist doctrine of irresistible grace. If god decides to inflict salvation on you, like getting shot by a sniper out of the blue, they you have to put up salvation and heaven throughout eternity, whether you want it or not.

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The first time was when I was 12 and my mother woke me up just to tell me that Satan himself was in the house and he was after me to kill me.

 

I sympathize.

 

My mother always told me I would go straight to hell, no matter what I did. It sounds like they went to the same church. Was yours Lutheran by chance?

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