Mikestar Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I can't believe I had anything to do with Christianity. I was a youth leader, I was in the music team. Yes christianity ruled my life. I should have known I was involved in a cult. From what I've experienced, some Christians are the most selfish people on the planet. They have a mentality that says "We are right, you are wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it". Well that's what I experienced anyway. A couple of people in the church leadership took it upon themselves to take over the church while our pastor was taking a break. They made it clear they weren't resigning (Yes I have the letter). Apparently the couple in the leadership decided to get lawyers to stop them from attending the church where they were still pastors. The pastors were employed by the church. Only a handful of us decided to go around to see them to find out what had happened. We were lied to. We were told that they stepped down when the fact was they couldn't return. THIS IS COMING FROM CHRISTIANS! The ones that worship a God that says Love One Another. Any way, they couldn't go back there to grab their stuff because of the lawyer. I don't care what happened leading up to this, the matter is that no person deserves this! Next the church was told that there was gonna be a vote. How can you vote a pastor in when he's been ex-communicated? The worst thing is that no one in the church knows this as far as I know. I spoke to a few people in the church and no one knew about the lawyer. Remember, the issue is that they legally CAN'T come back! It's been 2 months and they still haven't had a vote. Remember how I told you I was a youth leader? Probably the worst thing out of this is that I was told by these people that got the lawyers was I would have to turn the pastors away if they turned up at youth, something I couldn't do. WHO DOES THAT? I was also shocked to find the locks were changed (The pastors also found this out first from me the next day). And nobody communicated with me that I would have to cancel a couple of youth events since the church wanted it's hall back to have a meeting that wasn't suppose to be on. When I approached the leadership, I couldn't get the leadership to answer a simple question without palming me off to someone else. Here's what did it for me: It's hypocritical to go to church and want to see people saved when they shun their own pastor. Christians talk about grace. Grace has no conditions! They want the world reconciled to God but not the pastor reconciled with the Church. They speak grace and Love but for some reason the exception is the pastors who ended up selling their house and moving. I said that to people but nobody would listen and just bought up the church constitution. BTW the pastors are settled in new jobs now. I am still good friends with them. I'm done with church, christianity, the whole thing. The whole thing is shit. I lost a LOT of friends because I sided with the pastor and decided to think critically instead of believing everything someone says. No one could even read a letter that said "We have resigned" properly. All they wanted to argue was the constitution. Seriously I don't give a crap about any constitution which they only read when the shit hits the fan. Those people don't love each other like the Bible says to do. Alot of people are hurt and have questions that no one wants to answer. People even started telling me that the pastors had mental problems. Someone else in the leadership started to bring my marriage into the equation as a reason for feeling "rebellious" (I kid you not). The music team didn't believe me when I told them I was leaving the church. Obviously they only want me at church coz I can play drums, not the fact that I'm a human being. Those people that did all that stuff are now running the church. They said that it was a leadership team effort but someone has to steer the ship. The biggest problem is that they wanted the youth changed to suit their purposes I guess so if it doesn't go their way they have someone to blame How narcissistic can you get? You can't love people unconditionally when you have them mentality that says "the whole world is bad and everyone in it is evil and we Christians are good. We are right, you're wrong, so deal with it." I shut the youth down and told them in no uncertain terms what had happened and how I recommend for them to not go there and avoid the church like sars... Something that pissed people off, but hey, I presented them with the info and they made up their own mind. Christianity has ruined my life. I feel totally ripped off because for the first time in my life I feel like the scales have fallen off my eyes. I honestly don't know what to do. I'm feeling depressed about it all the time. I've lost alot of friends. So I figured what the hell, I'll give this a try since you lot have made more sense than those morons. I'm so angry that I've taken all my christian related content down from my blog. I gave 13 years of my life to that church. I was engaged, married, and our little girl was dedicated there so you can understand why I'm finding it hard to let go. Everytime I think about all the crap that has happened I feel like punching a wall. I hope this made sense. Hopefully someone else can relate to my story.
jkc Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Hi Mike, I'm only new here myself but have no problem believing what you're written. Christianity is poisonous imo. The whole organisation from the beginning has been power hungry and always looking for new ways to control the mob. I know what you mean when you say you don't know what to do, but you're in the right place.....lots of great advice here. Jk
Moderator Margee Posted May 13, 2011 Moderator Posted May 13, 2011 hi mikestar! Welcome to EX-c! Glad to have you . I read your story and I can hear your anger. I totally relate. The politics of the church was the last thing I fought about with my own pastor before I wrote him a good-bye letter. Politics and power come before love! My last church was full of bullshit stuff.It was definitely a factor in my deconversion! Compare the world politics with the church. Not much difference if you ask me! Glad you joined us! looking forward to hearing more from you! Parallels in Secular Politics and Church Politics • Politics represents the attainment and exercise of power and influence. • Politics results in who gets what, when, where, and how. • Politics is the production of intended effects. • Politics is the art of saying what the most people want to hear. • Perception is the only reality that counts. • Elements of successful leadership include both conflict and consensus, alliances and antagonisms, and at times warfare, both ideological and rhetorical. • Confrontation on “issues” becomes almost unavoidable. • Staking out a position on populist issues is almost inevitable.
BettyRubble Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Hey Mike! I'm new here too! I think there are a lot of people looking for a place to vent, who have been hurt more than helped while they were part of a Christian church. It's very freeing to be able to come to a place where others understand what you've been through. From what I've read, no one is going to tell you what to believe or not believe - a big difference from the lives we've lived. There can be peace without religion!
Galien Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Happened in my pentecostal church in Australia too. These people are assholes of the highest order. I spent 36 years of my life trying to do what was right in church. Now I do it outside the church, and feel so much happier for that choice. Truth is honey they don't care about the individuals that go to the church unless they are conforming nicely. Christians are fine when everything is going swimmingly well, but they don't have a clue how to dea with anything even slightly difficult and they turn into the most revolting fucktards at the drop of a hat, worse than stuff I have seen outside the church. You are better away from them
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Hi Mike! It was interesting to me to see a different angle on deconverting, as most of them have involved questioning of the Bible and such. I've only heard a few other describe their church experiences as the factor that "broke their glasses" and allowed them to see reality. My 2nd church went through something similar. The pastor had said that he heard from God that we should not have a regular Easter service, but instead meet with other churches in the large auditorium in that city, and that we should give the offering to the poor of the city. The elders threw a royal fit since he claimed to actually hear God (a no-no in a Baptist church that considers direct revelation closed), and also giving up the money that comes in from the people that only go on Easter... well, they cited personality issues and kicked him out in an evening service where he was not allowed to speak, so the church could "start healing". Many of us left that congregation because of this. (They did hold the city-wide service, and did give the money to the independent social services that help the poor, one of the few openly good things the churches there ever did.) They even "made" him sign a legal document keeping him from forming his own church to try and prevent a church split. Guess they forgot about the other congregations, and the concept of a home church. Politics is politics, and Christians regularly demonstrate just how not born-again they really are.
Blue elephant Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Hey Mike Welcome to Ex-C from another Australian. Your experience is enough to make anyone cynical about churches and religion. I'm sure you will learn much more on this site which will add even further to your cynicism.
prplfox Posted May 16, 2011 Posted May 16, 2011 Christianity has ruined my life. I feel totally ripped off because for the first time in my life I feel like the scales have fallen off my eyes. I honestly don't know what to do. I'm feeling depressed about it all the time. I've lost alot of friends. So I figured what the hell, I'll give this a try since you lot have made more sense than those morons. I'm so angry that I've taken all my christian related content down from my blog. I gave 13 years of my life to that church. I was engaged, married, and our little girl was dedicated there so you can understand why I'm finding it hard to let go. Everytime I think about all the crap that has happened I feel like punching a wall. Mike, I have punched a lot of walls for Jesus. Christianity is shit, it's ok to say that. The end of your post connected with me. Read other deconversion stories here. For a lot of people, when they find that Christianity isn't true, they don't just dust themselves off and become atheist. It's not that simple, your life is woven into this community and belief and it is very painful to be pulled out. You can't change what happened, but when you come through the depression and loss you can start to use the experience for good. Ex-Christians are special because they can bridge between Christians and non-Christians. We are the best voice there is to help others caught in the cult that self-professes as the greatest love.
Joss Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 Mikestar said: I gave 13 years of my life to that church. I was engaged, married, and our little girl was dedicated there so you can understand why I'm finding it hard to let go. Everytime I think about all the crap that has happened I feel like punching a wall. I can relate to that; I gave 30 years of my life to the ministry. In addition to going through the whole grieving process, helpful Christians are still attacking me for my decision; telling me I am going to hell and dragging my family down with me. I would be angry with them, but quite frankly, the more they bluster and verbally abuse, the easier it is to loosen the grip on the thread that still runs between me and the Church. BettyRubble said: There can be peace without religion! It is my hope that there can be peace with religion. After all, religion is the biggest stumbling block there is along that road.
Centauro Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 Welcome Mike! This is a great place for information and helping one recover from religion. Stick around, vent and read other deconversion stories. It will help. Until then, hang in there and stay strong.
florduh Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 What were any of us thinking? Hello and welcome. Not all churches are as bad as your experience, but Christians are certainly no more honest or reasonable than the general population. As far as the religion itself goes, it's rotted from the top down.
Kent Posted May 20, 2011 Posted May 20, 2011 I honestly don't know what to do. I'm feeling depressed about it all the time. I've lost alot of friends. So I figured what the hell, I'll give this a try since you lot have made more sense than those morons. I'm so angry that I've taken all my christian related content down from my blog. I can relate. You left christianity under different circumstances than I did. They seem to have left you. I left them. But I understand the anger. In my opinion, it's a natural reaction. And I have a suggestion. Take time to decompress. Don't dwell on it. Just let it go. They have f'd with you long enough. Don't let them f' with you anymore. You are giving them too much power when you should give them nothing, in my opinion. It worked for me.
Freedom from Guilt Posted May 20, 2011 Posted May 20, 2011 I never left over any of the church bullshit that I witnessed but I witnessed a LOT of it. When I was in my twenties, our pastor of many years retired and after a long search the deacons brought a man before the church. We voted him in and the church then proceeded to eat him up for lunch and threw him out after a year. It was the saddest thing to witness. Anonymous letters, secret meetings and secret petitions, gossip and lies spread to anyone who would listen. Complaints over the color of clothes that the pastor's wife wore, and a holy war over any change, no matter how small. I saw men and women act in the most vicious, hateful manner that you could imagine. In my thirties, we went to a church that had brought a new pastor in. He systematically alienated everyone on the staff. One by one, he picked them off and forced them to leave. I was friends with the youth pastor and his removal was just heartbreaking. This guy had the nerve to want to spend time and money on something that the pastor deemed unacceptable and he fired him but then told the church he had resigned. This man could spin situations as good as any politician. Every person he fired, he replaced with a family member. The last church we were involved in had a new pastor that I thought was wonderful until I saw his true colors. He smiled while he stabbed you in the back. Feigned ignorance while he secretly manipulated every situation and person that he could. He fired an associate and had he sign legal papers so that he could not talk badly about the him. This man's not happy unless everyone is kissing his feet. Power hungry could describe almost every pastor that I have known in Pentecostal and Baptist circles. Sorry that you had to go through such horrible circumstances to see the truth. Keep researching and reading and back up your findings with solid evidence. It will help you out in the long run. freedom
lunaticheathen Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 Not all churches are as bad as your experience, but Christians are certainly no more honest or reasonable than the general population. QFT. I have been hurt by christians' "love", no doubt, and it sucks, and I still get angry, but they're still just people with a special excuse. Most of them, if they didn't have Jesus as an excuse, would find another excuse. I went to a christian school, and so much idiotic bullshit happened there, most of it pandering to the richer kids (and by extension, their parents), that it just makes me ill. Still. One of those rich bastards grabbed my tit in the hall. I beat his ass for it. What happened, might you ask? I was told I'd be suspended. "Boys will be boys." Oh yeah. Christian morals. I wasn't suspended because I and my mother threatened to go to the press and bring the lawyer into it. But the little rich shit wasn't disciplined either. In the end, it was more about money than Jesus, but that's kind of the point too - they're supposed to NOT LET this happen, and christians are supposed to be on a higher standard. And they just aren't.
freespirit Posted May 21, 2011 Posted May 21, 2011 I can't believe I had anything to do with Christianity. I was a youth leader, I was in the music team. Yes christianity ruled my life. I should have known I was involved in a cult. From what I've experienced, some Christians are the most selfish people on the planet. They have a mentality that says "We are right, you are wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it". Well that's what I experienced anyway. A couple of people in the church leadership took it upon themselves to take over the church while our pastor was taking a break. They made it clear they weren't resigning (Yes I have the letter). Apparently the couple in the leadership decided to get lawyers to stop them from attending the church where they were still pastors. The pastors were employed by the church. Only a handful of us decided to go around to see them to find out what had happened. We were lied to. We were told that they stepped down when the fact was they couldn't return. THIS IS COMING FROM CHRISTIANS! The ones that worship a God that says Love One Another. Any way, they couldn't go back there to grab their stuff because of the lawyer. I don't care what happened leading up to this, the matter is that no person deserves this! Next the church was told that there was gonna be a vote. How can you vote a pastor in when he's been ex-communicated? The worst thing is that no one in the church knows this as far as I know. I spoke to a few people in the church and no one knew about the lawyer. Remember, the issue is that they legally CAN'T come back! It's been 2 months and they still haven't had a vote. Remember how I told you I was a youth leader? Probably the worst thing out of this is that I was told by these people that got the lawyers was I would have to turn the pastors away if they turned up at youth, something I couldn't do. WHO DOES THAT? I was also shocked to find the locks were changed (The pastors also found this out first from me the next day). And nobody communicated with me that I would have to cancel a couple of youth events since the church wanted it's hall back to have a meeting that wasn't suppose to be on. When I approached the leadership, I couldn't get the leadership to answer a simple question without palming me off to someone else. Here's what did it for me: It's hypocritical to go to church and want to see people saved when they shun their own pastor. Christians talk about grace. Grace has no conditions! They want the world reconciled to God but not the pastor reconciled with the Church. They speak grace and Love but for some reason the exception is the pastors who ended up selling their house and moving. I said that to people but nobody would listen and just bought up the church constitution. BTW the pastors are settled in new jobs now. I am still good friends with them. I'm done with church, christianity, the whole thing. The whole thing is shit. I lost a LOT of friends because I sided with the pastor and decided to think critically instead of believing everything someone says. No one could even read a letter that said "We have resigned" properly. All they wanted to argue was the constitution. Seriously I don't give a crap about any constitution which they only read when the shit hits the fan. Those people don't love each other like the Bible says to do. Alot of people are hurt and have questions that no one wants to answer. People even started telling me that the pastors had mental problems. Someone else in the leadership started to bring my marriage into the equation as a reason for feeling "rebellious" (I kid you not). The music team didn't believe me when I told them I was leaving the church. Obviously they only want me at church coz I can play drums, not the fact that I'm a human being. Those people that did all that stuff are now running the church. They said that it was a leadership team effort but someone has to steer the ship. The biggest problem is that they wanted the youth changed to suit their purposes I guess so if it doesn't go their way they have someone to blame How narcissistic can you get? You can't love people unconditionally when you have them mentality that says "the whole world is bad and everyone in it is evil and we Christians are good. We are right, you're wrong, so deal with it." I shut the youth down and told them in no uncertain terms what had happened and how I recommend for them to not go there and avoid the church like sars... Something that pissed people off, but hey, I presented them with the info and they made up their own mind. Christianity has ruined my life. I feel totally ripped off because for the first time in my life I feel like the scales have fallen off my eyes. I honestly don't know what to do. I'm feeling depressed about it all the time. I've lost alot of friends. So I figured what the hell, I'll give this a try since you lot have made more sense than those morons. I'm so angry that I've taken all my christian related content down from my blog. I gave 13 years of my life to that church. I was engaged, married, and our little girl was dedicated there so you can understand why I'm finding it hard to let go. Everytime I think about all the crap that has happened I feel like punching a wall. I hope this made sense. Hopefully someone else can relate to my story. I know how you feel, Mike. If it's any consolation. We were 19 years in a fundamentalist church. I'm still dealing with some emotions even though I left 6 years ago.
Mikestar Posted January 17, 2012 Author Posted January 17, 2012 Hi guys. It's been about 9 months since I left the church. A lot of things have happened that I'd like to share. Life is good now! I scored the best job as an IT technician. I tried going to another church but I was a mistake. Nobody makes an effort to make friends with the new guy. Obviously this is the way it works so I officially called it quits. I came down with a case of the cant be bothereds. A couple of months ago i was diagnosed with testicular cancer. The doctors got it early so I'm gonna be fine. Glad gander it over and done with.I'm fine now. I'd rather not be in church now after the cancer thing as some idiot is bound to start blaming the cancer on unconfessed sin or some crap. Someone needs to tell these jerks that bad stuff happens to Christians too.... I announced the cancer on Facebook and I had 40 comments of support and one 'like'. Yep from a Christian that was removed from my friends list. I thought it was hilarious actually. Funny story. I went back to the old church a week before my surgery as a one off coz every time I drove past, their car park looked full. Was driving me nut(s) wondering how everyone could still be there after our pastors left. I was wrong. Only a handful of people were there. Must of been one person per car. Anyway that wasn't the funny part. The 'church' new i was diagnosed with TC and took it upon themselves to 'tinvite' me to the front to have the visiting ministry pray for me. Remember I just wanted to see who was still left. All I was thinking is how I was gonna get out of this but I went along with it after all it will confirm my reasons for leaving there. Some people were crying including the new fake leaders (the ones who kicked our pastors out) who had fake tears. I didn't see the big deal about the cancer thing coz once I had it removed I knew I'd be fine. Anyway here's the funny part: the visiting ministry bear hugged me while praying. If there was an Accademy award for praying this guy would take the cake. While everyone was praying for healing I was praying for this Christian hugger not to pile drive me. He was really getting into it a little too much obviously someone has never heard Of personal space. He didnt even know my name! He finished the prayer out of breath like he just ran the Boston marathon. I'm being serious. Made me realize that peer pressure has a lot to answer for. All I wanted was to get out of there and get home for lunch. Now I have started doing stand up comedy. I have enough material to fill 10 books. Ive come to realize that this isn't about God and stuff. It's about dealing with the cards I've been given just like a poker game. That's all. (before you ask, no i dont like Lady Gaga)This is what's keeping me from going insane. All this crap I've been through is because I was given a crap hand. That's about it for now
Prestissimo Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Ha, your story reminds me so much of southpark season 4 episode 10: "Do the Handicapped go to Hell". It's hilarious, you should check it out if you haven't seen it
Prestissimo Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 wait, it's a two-parter. 4 ep. 11 is the one I meant, though it's best to see them both. edit: whoops, 25 posts, I have an edit button now, sorry for the double post. See them both, have fun :-)
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Good to hear your follow-up, Mike. I'm glad that your health is better and that you have a good job. Your story of dropping in on your old church is a scream.
ConureDelSol Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Being an IT Tech is a wonderful job. They're very high in demand nowadays. I should know, I am one. I know about that whole church politics thing. A pastor at an old church I went to embezzled, got fired and lost everything, but he's still my dad's best friend. He was way better than the pastor who is still there, who started a bingo hall, then told the church he would stop it (since it was "gambling"), never did and still kept getting money for it. He moved to a bigger house, got nicer clothes, etc. My dad desperately wanted to help out with teaching and leadership, but the Pastor wouldn't let him because he didn't have an "official" degree. Just about everyone from that generation of the church left for other churches. We were probably the last family to leave. The pastor of the very first church we went to had an affair with another chick in the church that split their family apart too. The churches I've gone to haven't provided very good role models.
Positivist Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Hi guys. It's been about 9 months since I left the church. A lot of things have happened that I'd like to share. Life is good now! Hi! I just read your extimony for the first time today. I am new to Ex-C as of August. Anyhow, what happened to you in your church happened to me in TWO of them. The first church this happened in, police were in, there was a forensic audit, a bunch of people lost faith, and the church folded. Very messy. The next time this happened in my last church, one of the pastors is now an atheist, on drugs and divorced, while his fundy wife is living with someone. The other former pastor is an alcoholic doing odd jobs and his ex-wife stole someone else's husband. Bizarre! The church is under new and untrained leadership and have changed their views a lot (clamping down on women, for one thing). UGH! Yes, TC has a high cure rate if caught early. Depends partially on the type of cells, of course, but I'm sure your oncologist knows what he's doing. I agree with you that there is a LOT of manipulation in church, esp. charismatic churches. I'm so glad you're out! You are among friends here at Ex-C! Peace.
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