Why christianity still exists...

[Amanda]

Today, the religious tell us the word BELIEVER is a good word. The Clear Thinkers say the word still means EXACTLY what it did when it was first made up out of three old commonly used early English words, namely, one who will still "be a lie lover.”[/b]

 

http://www.jovialatheist.com/miracles.html

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MQTA thank you so much for that post! I also enjoy how words evolve. I suppose there isn't an online resource for that?

 

Having said that... I hate to be the devil's advocate here... but what if one is a believer, or has a belief in science?

[MQTA]

MQTA thank you so much for that post! I also enjoy how words evolve. I suppose there isn't an online resource for that? 

 

Having said that... I hate to be the devil's advocate here... but what if one is a believer, or has a belief in science?

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If they have a belief in science, they probably believe some pretty wierd shit.

 

However, if they learn it and understand it, then they have knowledge of science, perhaps in which they believe to be correct.

 

I like word roots, spoonerisms, and word play. I like semantics.

 

I don't like people who are anti-semantic though. LOL

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

Forgive me while I quote from the movie Napoleon Dynamite.

 

ND:    "This is pretty much the worst video ever made."

Kip:    "Napoleon, like anyone could even know that..."

 

Kip is right.  In order for Napoleon to know that this is the worst video ever made, he would have had ot have seen every single movie ever made -- including those that have only been seen by one person.  Unless he has seen every single video ever made, he couldn't possibly make this statement and hope that it be a fact; morever, even if he did see every video, his conclusion would still be merely opinion.

 

When you say I blindly have followed anything, or that I'm too damned lazy to go out and thank for myself... you are basing that on a plethura of ignorance.  You don't know me, my life, my conversion, my struggles, my research, my prayers, or my experiences... and yet, I feel even if you did... that would still be just a matter of opinion, because Christianity does claim that it is folly to men... so are you so surprised?

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So you are using Napoleon Dynamite to defend the fact that you are basically

an ignoramus?

 

I don't really have to know what your experiences, etc., ad nauseum, are.

Your responses on this board demonstrate that you are an ignoramus. You

never really debate anyone. Instead, you like to play cute little word games

like some third-rate country lawyer, you evade people's questions, you make

baseless assertions, and then you go into the usual, lame proselytizing spiel

that would put an entire congregation of Pentecostalists to sleep. You have

demonstrated on this board that you are a blithering idiot that is not to be

taken too seriously.

 

But that's OK, Daniel, just keep coming back and taking the abuse. You

make for a few decent laughs, and we can always use the added

entertainment.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

God has to exist for anything to be God damned.

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How do you know he was talking about your gawd? Not

everyone on this board is an atheist.

[Amanda]

I like word roots, spoonerisms, and word play.  I like semantics. 

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Hi MQTA...

 

Is there a website resource for researching words to their root meanings?

 

I find that really interesting also!

 

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

Hi MQTA...

 

Is there a website resource for researching words to their root meanings?

 

I find that really interesting also!

 

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Hi Amanda,

 

If you wanted to try an etymological game, you might try this

site.

 

The Oxford English Dictionary online does provide etymologies,

but unfortunately it doesn't trace the full history of each word

the way the unabridged, print version of the dictionary does.

[Asuryan]

If they have a belief in science, they probably believe some pretty wierd shit.

 

However, if they learn it and understand it, then they have knowledge of science, perhaps in which they believe to be correct.

 

I like word roots, spoonerisms, and word play.  I like semantics. 

 

 

Me too

 

I always disliked the whole "faith" concept. Believing something without proof. Now, it seems to me that having "faith" and having "a belief" are rather similar in meaning... I'm not too sure though, as english is not my native tongue

Give me "having an opinion" over "having a belief" every day of my life

 

I still remember one of the prayers they made us repeat over and over like mindless drones. It was the "Credo", I think it can be translated as "I believe". A horrible, horrible prayer.

Have you ever been inside an italian church during Mass? Well, if you do, brace yourself, it's ugly. I don't know if it's the same thing in america, but here, people have some sort of ...special voice they use only for reciting prayers during Mass.

A droning, mindless empty voice, repeating those words with *Exactly* the same inflections and accents and speed (very slow)...

I can still do it at present time just as some of you can still talk in tongues.

 

The word "credo", or "believe", still leaves me something of a bitter taste in my mouth, so many times I've repeated it saying that I believed things I really didn't. That's a curious side effect... I perceive my experience with christianity as something that spoiled some words for me forever. Someone else out there that feels the same way?

[MQTA]

over here all Preachers seem to sound the same, Southern Drawl and slow emphatic speaking. They must not realize they sound like idiots. And people believe them?

 

I always thought it was funny how people talked about "The Big LIE"

 

I never realized it was in the middle of that word. beLIEve

[Asuryan]

over here all Preachers seem to sound the same, Southern Drawl and slow emphatic speaking.  They must not realize they sound like idiots.  And people believe them?

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Sometimes, when I'm in the mood, I do the Voice just to see my parents' reactions. I start droning on and they look at me a bit scared, as if I was possessed

 

 

Once I thought that the "Voice" (gosh, sounds like something from frank Herbert's Dune if I call it that way!) was something used only during Masses.

But then I discovered that the Voice is everywhere!

 

In Italy we have a weird custom. Once per year (roughly before easter), a catholic priest goes around the town he's assigned to, and he asks people for a money donation. In exchange, he'll bless the house, sprinkle some holy water here and there, and then recite the Pater Noster before going away with his hard earned money. If you don't give a thing, of course, in a matter of days all of town WILL know how much of an "asshole" you are, refusing to let the good priest blessing your house! SHAME on you!

The worse thing is that those catholic priests go to workplaces too. When I still worked at a call center, once this priest came inside... the owner gave him a LOT of money to have him bless the call center, the offices, the phones, and so on. I was there, on my chair, and couldn't believe it. The owner went on to explain that the priest was about to say a little prayer and then preach a bit about the subject of working. Everybody was then invited to stand up and recite the Pater Noster with the priest.

And everybody stood up... and then Lo and behold, the Voice came out, the same Voice I've came to dread. I stayed there and my buttocks didn't leave the chair for a single moment. Sadly I was the only one.

Then the priest went on to preach, then he went away, and then the owner said that the time the priest used up by preaching and so on would've been detracted from our Lunch time.

What a bastard.

[All Gods Fail]

What a load of crap! I feel for you, Asuryan. It must be tough to be a doubter in an environment like that!

 

Just another example of how religion makes our lives better!

[daniel_1012]

Explain what you mean by "proven true".

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John 14:19-21

 

Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

[crazy-tiger]

John 14:19-21

 

Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.  Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

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Same kind of thing is written in the Quran... does that mean it's been proven true as well?

 

 

Of course not... never let it be said that you hold your own beliefs to the same standards of proof that you do others.

 

Fucking hypocrite...

[willybilly30]

just cause the bible and jesus says its true dont make it true. why should we beleave jesus. sorry i barely trust people i know personally much less someone i dont know at all and couldnt meet cause hes been dead 2000 years. i cant even get the writters of the bible too talk too. proove the the bibles true. and like i said just cause it says its the word of god dont make it so. hell anyone could say that. all religions say they were from god how do u know u got the right one? come on if were gonna debate lets do it right talk dude dont just shoot bible verses and bumper sticker catch phrases.

 

 

 

John 14:19-21

 

Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.  Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

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[daniel_1012]

Same kind of thing is written in the Quran... does that mean it's been proven true as well?

Of course not... never let it be said that you hold your own beliefs to the same standards of proof that you do others.

 

Fucking hypocrite...

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You missed the point entirely. I not talking merely about what has been written.

[daniel_1012]

just cause the bible and jesus says its true dont make it true. why should we beleave jesus. sorry i barely trust people i know personally much less someone i dont know at all and couldnt meet cause hes been dead 2000 years. i cant even get the writters of the bible too talk too. proove the the bibles true. and like i said just cause it says its the word of god dont make it so. hell anyone could say that. all religions say they were from god how do u know u got the right one? come on if were gonna debate lets do it right talk dude dont just shoot bible verses and bumper sticker catch phrases.

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Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.

 

That is how I know. There was a time, when like you perhaps once did as a professing ex-Christian... I depended upon my beliefs. However, there was a time after this, that I moved from the realm of belief and into experience. Like when at first you believe fire is hot, or a kind of candy is sweet. Once you find it out, by touching the fire or tasting the candy, you have moved from the realm of belief, into the realm of knowledge. I don't rely merely on the Bible or something someone has written to keep my faith alive. I have experience, given to me by God.

 

The proof is in the pudding, but I can't make you taste it and cause you to experience it.

[Mr. Neil]

You missed the point entirely.  I not talking merely about what has been written.

Well then please refrain from cryptic hints. We don't want to play games. We expect explicit responses.

 

So basically you're saying that Jesus has revealed himself to you. Is that right?

 

I'll just assume that's what you're saying. In what way has Jesus revealed himself to you? Did he knock on your door? Did he speak to you from inside your head? How did you know it was Jesus and not some other entity? Or even your own imagionation?

 

Most importantly of all, why should we take your anecdote at face value? How is it any different than people who claim to be in regular contact with aliens?

 

However, there was a time after this, that I moved from the realm of belief and into experience.  Like when at first you believe fire is hot, or a kind of candy is sweet.  Once you find it out, by touching the fire or tasting the candy, you have moved from the realm of belief, into the realm of knowledge.  I don't rely merely on the Bible or something someone has written to keep my faith alive.  I have experience, given to me by God.

You're a fan of Ray Comfort, aren't you? Some of this is like word-for-word.

 

Again, these are charming anecdotes, but ultimately meaningless. You haven't even described these experiences other than conveying them to us with analogies to touching fire or tasting candy. I suspect that you don't even know what these "experiences" actually entail.

 

You used the word "proven", yet you've not explained what you mean by that. You just pointed to a verse and tried to make us fill in the blanks. That's not good enough.

 

What standard of proof are you even using? Proof depends on falsifiability. Are your experiences repeatable? Are they falsifiable? Would you be willing to consider that this vague experience you had was just your imagination? If no, then why not?

 

What do you mean by "proven"?

[MQTA]

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.

 

That is how I know.  There was a time, when like you perhaps once did as a professing ex-Christian... I depended upon my beliefs.  However, there was a time after this, that I moved from the realm of belief and into experience.  Like when at first you believe fire is hot, or a kind of candy is sweet.  Once you find it out, by touching the fire or tasting the candy, you have moved from the realm of belief, into the realm of knowledge.  I don't rely merely on the Bible or something someone has written to keep my faith alive.  I have experience, given to me by God.

 

The proof is in the pudding, but I can't make you taste it and cause you to experience it.

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Of course not, the delusions and psycheouts are in your own mind.

 

If you were feeling the Truth, it would be Mithra or Sol Invictus, before all the bullshit was planted in your brain.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.

 

That is how I know.  There was a time, when like you perhaps once did as a professing ex-Christian... I depended upon my beliefs.  However, there was a time after this, that I moved from the realm of belief and into experience.  Like when at first you believe fire is hot, or a kind of candy is sweet.  Once you find it out, by touching the fire or tasting the candy, you have moved from the realm of belief, into the realm of knowledge.  I don't rely merely on the Bible or something someone has written to keep my faith alive.  I have experience, given to me by God.

 

The proof is in the pudding, but I can't make you taste it and cause you to experience it.

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::Yawn::

 

No, Daniel, it just means you're delusional. So now you're getting special

revelations from gawd that somehow make you special? So you're now

adding to gawd's word with your own experiences, hmmmm? Wasn't there

a curse in Revelations about people adding stuff to gawd's holy book?

Oh, but you must have new words from gawd, that say now he's changed

his mind! Right!

 

I see that you are still evading questions, and instead you're only giving

us another line of proselytizing bullcrap. Since the hellfire and brimstone

thing didn't work, now you're using this retreaded Jesus freak thing to

peddle your gawd. Looks like you'll have to come up with another sales

pitch, because this one isn't working either.

[MQTA]

Well then please refrain from cryptic hints.  We don't want to play games.  We expect explicit responses.

 

So basically you're saying that Jesus has revealed himself to you.  Is that right?

 

I'll just assume that's what you're saying.  In what way has Jesus revealed himself to you?  Did he knock on your door?  Did he speak to you from inside your head?  How did you know it was Jesus and not some other entity?  Or even your own imagionation?

 

Most importantly of all, why should we take your anecdote at face value?  How is it any different than people who claim to be in regular contact with aliens?

 

UNFORTUNATELY, there may be more truth to 20th and 21st Century sightings and stories than there could ever be in fables from 2000+ years ago.

 

The Sumerian tales may have more fact than any would WANT to accept.

 

The word, which is most often translated into English as “angels,” is the Hebrew word that should be translated as "watchers." There are many ancient writings, myths and stories about these encounters with the watchers. Some of these stories are in civil and secular writings and many others are found in religious stories. In the religious stories, they are attributed to angels, gods, spirits and demons. I have read hundreds of these accounts from both ancient and modern writers. I have searched out a large number of these stories from religious works. In every case, secular or religious, the results of this experience of being visited by these aliens has made great changes in the lives of those visited (some for good and some for bad).

 

To make matters worse, some of these watchers seem to be good guys and some of them seem to be bad guys. One thing seems certain. The technological, biological and neurological science and abilities possessed by these beings is beyond our comprehension, indeed, it is beyond our imagination. It seems they can heal diseases from a distance, read minds, place thoughts and urges into men's minds, cause physical change and activity in the area of material matter and many more unusual and astounding things. But, and this is an important, but, these intrusions into human life are extremely limited. We do not know upon what basis they intrude.

 

 

 

http://www.jovialatheist.com/ufo.html

[Asuryan]

What a load of crap! I feel for you, Asuryan. It must be tough to be a doubter in an environment like that!

 

Just another example of how religion makes our lives better!

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Well, it is tough, this is true. Of course I had all the eyes of the call-center on me after the priest went away. Suddenly I wasn't a colleague anymore, I was "the girl that didn't stood up during the prayer". Hooray!

 

But whenever I think about the Catholic religion, and I wonder if it was right to abandon it completely like I did, it is also thanks to these little aneddotes (spelling?) that I can smile and metaphorically pat myself on the back

[Asuryan]

If you were feeling the Truth, it would be Mithra or Sol Invictus, before all the bullshit was planted in your brain.

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Ahh, those times when Latin was the language of ancient romans, with their republic and their freedom of religion and their wars of conquest. Then came the church and stole it from my land's ancestory... curse them

 

How is that the guy still can't understand that we don't think the bible is a reliable source of historical events or "proven true" things? He's here on the boards since, what, a month, two? And yet he keeps trying to use the bible as source and proof?

He just doesn't get it.

[Mr. Neil]

UNFORTUNATELY, there may be more truth to 20th and 21st Century sightings and stories than there could ever be in fables from 2000+ years ago.

Well that may be true, but I was talking about beyond just sightings. I mean people who actually claim to have regular contact, such as claiming to be married to an alien.

[daniel_1012]

Well then please refrain from cryptic hints.  We don't want to play games.  We expect explicit responses.

 

So basically you're saying that Jesus has revealed himself to you.  Is that right?

 

I'll just assume that's what you're saying.  In what way has Jesus revealed himself to you?  Did he knock on your door?  Did he speak to you from inside your head?  How did you know it was Jesus and not some other entity?  Or even your own imagionation?

 

Most importantly of all, why should we take your anecdote at face value?  How is it any different than people who claim to be in regular contact with aliens?

 

You're a fan of Ray Comfort, aren't you?  Some of this is like word-for-word.

 

Again, these are charming anecdotes, but ultimately meaningless.  You haven't even described these experiences other than conveying them to us with analogies to touching fire or tasting candy.  I suspect that you don't even know what these "experiences" actually entail.

 

You used the word "proven", yet you've not explained what you mean by that.  You just pointed to a verse and tried to make us fill in the blanks.  That's not  good enough.

 

What standard of proof are you even using?  Proof depends on falsifiability.  Are your experiences repeatable?  Are they falsifiable?  Would you be willing to consider that this vague experience you had was just your imagination?  If no, then why not?

 

What do you mean by "proven"?

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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing of the Word of God.

 

He revealed Himself to me, and Jesus said whoever keeps these commandents of His are the ones that love Him, and that He would reveal Himself to them. He revealed Himself to me, in Spirit and in Truth.

[daniel_1012]

::Yawn::

 

No, Daniel, it just means you're delusional.  So now you're getting special

revelations from gawd that somehow make you special?  So you're now

adding to gawd's word with your own experiences, hmmmm?  Wasn't there

a curse in Revelations about people adding stuff to gawd's holy book?

Oh, but you must have new words from gawd, that say now he's changed

his mind!  Right!

 

I see that you are still evading questions, and instead you're only giving

us another line of proselytizing bullcrap.  Since the hellfire and brimstone

thing didn't work, now you're using this retreaded Jesus freak thing to

peddle your gawd.  Looks like you'll have to come up with another sales

pitch, because this one isn't working either.

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I added nothing. Jesus said whoever has these commandments and keeps them, He would reveal Himself to them. I am just telling you that He did just that, and His Word as recorded in the Bible I have within my grasp, has proven true. I can't nor intend to reveal that to you... Jesus said He would, and since I'm not Jesus... I can't give you the proof that has been given me. You have to go to Him for that, but you must first believe.

[All Gods Fail]

How is that the guy still can't understand that we don't think the bible is a reliable source of historical events or "proven true" things? He's here on the boards since, what, a month, two? And yet he keeps trying to use the bible as source and proof?

He just doesn't get it.

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Clearly Danny doesn't understand that we don't believe in his book of fairy tales.

 

Something have torpedoed his faith and now he's desperately trying to bail out his leaky ship to prove it still floats. But he's plugging holes with more holes.