sjessen Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I saw a fascinating documentary on this guy... Do you recall what channel that documentary was on? I'd like to try to find it and watch it. Maybe Netflix has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 SJessen, Here is a quote of what i referred to, Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-- after that it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it can not be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to ME, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason] Here's a link of some quotes: http://atheism.about...bl_q_TPaine.htm It must have been "The Age of Reason"...I read it quite some time ago but I'll always remember that line of reasoning. It was such an eye opener for me. While reading it I just remember thinking that "this guy understands....." the burden of bible religion slowly started to become less & less a burden & I let it all go. It was quite the journey as I can't believe that I'm not a "true believer" anymore...haha, but I'm glad I'm not. It was just so damn oppressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonQuest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The quote from Paine about not being obligated to believe revelations made to other people was a huge eye opener for me. I got the audiobooks app on my iPhone, and listening to The Age of Reason, plus lectures fom Ingersol, d'Halbach, and others were instrumental in my deconversion. Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christion is also very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Reading the writings of Thomas Paine & Ralph Waldo Emerson were crucial in my re-thinking the bible & it's twisted belief system. NAV, What have you read by Emerson that helped you? I would be interested in reading that too. BTW, I Paine, too, especially for his examination of the prophesies. What an eye opener that was! It made things so easy to see that the gospels can't be inspired by God cuz they just don't make any sense! I have this compilation of Emerson quotes in a book. But I don't know where the book is because we moved in 2010....& I still have a LOT of stuff in boxes. I will try to find what I am looking for, but basically he questions religion & from what I recall he was against dogma & pointed out how religion is divisive. I thought you wanted the Thomas Paine info...gawd I'm losing it! Too much going on....can't keep it straight! If I can't find the book I will look online...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 “To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson From Wikipedia: ....On July 15, 1838,[71] Emerson was invited to Divinity Hall, Harvard Divinity School for the school's graduation address, which came to be known as his "Divinity School Address". Emerson discounted Biblical miracles and proclaimed that, while Jesus was a great man, he was not God: historical Christianity, he said, had turned Jesus into a "demigod, as the Orientals or the Greeks would describe Osiris or Apollo".[72] His comments outraged the establishment and the general Protestant community. For this, he was denounced as an atheist,[72] and a poisoner of young men's minds. Despite the roar of critics, he made no reply, leaving others to put forward a defense. He was not invited back to speak at Harvard for another thirty years.[73]..... Some quotes I found online, Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. - Ralph Waldo Emerson The god of the cannibals will be a cannibal, of the crusaders a crusader, and of the merchants a merchant. - Ralph Waldo Emerson The religion that is afraid of science dishonors God and commits suicide. - Ralph Waldo Emerson The Emerson book I have I actually highlighted in it because it spoke to me. I don't recall if I was still a bible believer, but what he wrote resonated with me & like with Paine I felt I was reading the thoughts of someone who truly understood!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The quote from Paine about not being obligated to believe revelations made to other people was a huge eye opener for me. I got the audiobooks app on my iPhone, and listening to The Age of Reason, plus lectures fom Ingersol, d'Halbach, and others were instrumental in my deconversion. Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christion is also very good. I agree. I love the works of Paine, but I slightly prefer Ingersoll. "Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith, evict me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat from the tree of knowledge" Robert Green Ingersoll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The quote from Paine about not being obligated to believe revelations made to other people was a huge eye opener for me. I got the audiobooks app on my iPhone, and listening to The Age of Reason, plus lectures fom Ingersol, d'Halbach, and others were instrumental in my deconversion. Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christion is also very good. I agree. I love the works of Paine, but I slightly prefer Ingersoll. "Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith, evict me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat from the tree of knowledge" Robert Green Ingersoll. I like Ingersoll too. I think they have some links here at Ex-C.....I need to check them out again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The quote from Paine about not being obligated to believe revelations made to other people was a huge eye opener for me. I got the audiobooks app on my iPhone, and listening to The Age of Reason, plus lectures fom Ingersol, d'Halbach, and others were instrumental in my deconversion. Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christion is also very good. I agree. I love the works of Paine, but I slightly prefer Ingersoll. "Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith, evict me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat from the tree of knowledge" Robert Green Ingersoll. I like Ingersoll too. I think they have some links here at Ex-C.....I need to check them out again! You can go to Archive.org and get his books there, along with some other greats. Check out M.M Mangasarian. He was a prominent Theologian in Phili until he turned Rationalist. His works are brilliant, in my opinion. I reference, Paine, Ingersoll, Mangasarian, Washburn, and many other similar authors in my books, because I feel that they have been lost to modern ex-Christians and freethinkers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The quote from Paine about not being obligated to believe revelations made to other people was a huge eye opener for me. I got the audiobooks app on my iPhone, and listening to The Age of Reason, plus lectures fom Ingersol, d'Halbach, and others were instrumental in my deconversion. Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christion is also very good. I agree. I love the works of Paine, but I slightly prefer Ingersoll. "Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith, evict me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat from the tree of knowledge" Robert Green Ingersoll. I like Ingersoll too. I think they have some links here at Ex-C.....I need to check them out again! You can go to Archive.org and get his books there, along with some other greats. Check out M.M Mangasarian. He was a prominent Theologian in Phili until he turned Rationalist. His works are brilliant, in my opinion. I reference, Paine, Ingersoll, Mangasarian, Washburn, and many other similar authors in my books, because I feel that they have been lost to modern ex-Christians and freethinkers. I haven't read a whole lot of what modern ex-christians, atheists or rationalists have written, other than at this site, some online. No time right now. but when I did read more, I remember Clarence Darrow too.... Have you read anything on him? BTW LIKE your website, wasn't able to browse long though....gotta cook dinner now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Paine. Gooooood. And everybody thought my name was just about my irritating personality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I saw a fascinating documentary on this guy and have started reading one of his books online. He does a very logical job of de-constructing the premises of Christianity. The book is online as a free download if anyone is interested: generation.feedbooks.com/book/3781.pdf I truly thought more people had read and were up on Paine's thoughts and how they related to our Republic. I guess I am just old. I'm an "X'er", but perhaps just an esoteric one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I got The Age of Reason as an audiobook for my Audible membership credit yesterday and started listening to it today while I was getting my hair colored. He starts right off with the argument about how we are not obligated to accept a "revelation" unless it is to us personally. Otherwise it is hearsay and we are not obligated to believe it. I totally agree with you NAV, this is a very good point. NAV, I looked up Emerson on Amazon. No need to look into that for me. I just thought if you knew off the top of your head a book by him that had an impression on you I might check it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 We should be a protected and respected minority. We did give the world Billy Bob Thornton and Bear Bryant after all. And walmart BWBWBWWBAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I got The Age of Reason as an audiobook for my Audible membership credit yesterday and started listening to it today while I was getting my hair colored. He starts right off with the argument about how we are not obligated to accept a "revelation" unless it is to us personally. Otherwise it is hearsay and we are not obligated to believe it. I totally agree with you NAV, this is a very good point. NAV, I looked up Emerson on Amazon. No need to look into that for me. I just thought if you knew off the top of your head a book by him that had an impression on you I might check it out. This is bad but I can't even remember exactly the name of the book by Emerson, but I am pretty sure it was quotes from his various writings.I was reading that Emerson book during a very stressful time still in the cult & I think some of those memories are whacked...like my kids will tell me "don't you remember this or that??" & i'm like....no I don't. At least I got some stuff right in my memory.. sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I got The Age of Reason as an audiobook for my Audible membership credit yesterday and started listening to it today while I was getting my hair colored. He starts right off with the argument about how we are not obligated to accept a "revelation" unless it is to us personally. Otherwise it is hearsay and we are not obligated to believe it. I totally agree with you NAV, this is a very good point. NAV, I looked up Emerson on Amazon. No need to look into that for me. I just thought if you knew off the top of your head a book by him that had an impression on you I might check it out. This is bad but I can't even remember exactly the name of the book by Emerson, but I am pretty sure it was quotes from his various writings.I was reading that Emerson book during a very stressful time still in the cult & I think some of those memories are whacked...like my kids will tell me "don't you remember this or that??" & i'm like....no I don't. At least I got some stuff right in my memory.. sheesh! I don't know a lot about your experience, but if it was like mine I can totally understand your absence of mind. My mind was so filled with religious thoughts that I could barely function. I would phase out where I was caught up in these thoughts. It really did a number on me. So I can relate! Please don't burden yourself with looking. I can look into his work myself. I'm so glad you escaped from that cult you were in!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micksherlock Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 The quote from Paine about not being obligated to believe revelations made to other people was a huge eye opener for me. I got the audiobooks app on my iPhone, and listening to The Age of Reason, plus lectures fom Ingersol, d'Halbach, and others were instrumental in my deconversion. Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christion is also very good. I agree. I love the works of Paine, but I slightly prefer Ingersoll. "Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith, evict me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat from the tree of knowledge" Robert Green Ingersoll. I like Ingersoll too. I think they have some links here at Ex-C.....I need to check them out again! You can go to Archive.org and get his books there, along with some other greats. Check out M.M Mangasarian. He was a prominent Theologian in Phili until he turned Rationalist. His works are brilliant, in my opinion. I reference, Paine, Ingersoll, Mangasarian, Washburn, and many other similar authors in my books, because I feel that they have been lost to modern ex-Christians and freethinkers. I haven't read a whole lot of what modern ex-christians, atheists or rationalists have written, other than at this site, some online. No time right now. but when I did read more, I remember Clarence Darrow too.... Have you read anything on him? BTW LIKE your website, wasn't able to browse long though....gotta cook dinner now. Sorry, missed this. Thanks. What did you cook? I love to cook. I have the best food critics in my house, a 2 year old girl and a four year old boy. If they don't like my food they say something like, "This is vommit to me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I am ignorant sometimes. LOL I lived in the town Where Thomas Paine was born in Thetford Norfolk. UK for several years when I was younger. The school he attended still stands and is still a school. There are other reminders of him around the town that honor his life including a monument that I have passed a hundred times. I knew the statue was of Thomas Paine but I had no clue who he was and what he had done. Now I have some clue but I have not read any of his work. If I did then I may able to contribute to some of these discussions you guys sometimes have. Anyway here is the statue of him in the town I use to live. http://en.wikipedia....rd,_Norfolk.jpg The one thing I don't know is what the plaque says on the base of the statue. I hope I haven't interrupted your discussion too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I am ignorant sometimes. LOL I lived in the town Where Thomas Paine was born in Thetford Norfolk. UK for several years when I was younger. The school he attended still stands and is still a school. There are other reminders of him around the town that honor his life including a monument that I have passed a hundred times. I knew the statue was of Thomas Paine but I had no clue who he was and what he had done. Now I have some clue but I have not read any of his work. If I did then I may able to contribute to some of these discussions you guys sometimes have. Anyway here is the statue of him in the town I use to live. http://en.wikipedia....rd,_Norfolk.jpg The one thing I don't know is what the plaque says on the base of the statue. I hope I haven't interrupted your discussion too much. That statue is neat! Thanks for sending the link. Hey it's a discussion, your comments are always welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Hey it's a discussion, your comments are always welcome. Agreed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffyMac Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I am ignorant sometimes. LOL I lived in the town Where Thomas Paine was born in Thetford Norfolk. UK for several years when I was younger. The school he attended still stands and is still a school. There are other reminders of him around the town that honor his life including a monument that I have passed a hundred times. I knew the statue was of Thomas Paine but I had no clue who he was and what he had done. Now I have some clue but I have not read any of his work. If I did then I may able to contribute to some of these discussions you guys sometimes have. Anyway here is the statue of him in the town I use to live. http://en.wikipedia....rd,_Norfolk.jpg The one thing I don't know is what the plaque says on the base of the statue. I hope I haven't interrupted your discussion too much. have you read Paine yet? you really should.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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