Ivy's Story

[IvyFairy]

 

Okay. Here is my Story… In A Nut Shell…

 

Where should I begin???

 

I was born in the early 1980s. My father (WM - Former Army – a POW during Vietnam, Mechanic, Truck Driver, Maintenance, etc…) and mother (EM - a Waitress since the age of 17) were both from the working class. At the time of birth, I had 1 older half sister (MB – From my mother’s first marriage) and 1 older half brother (SR – from my mother’s first marriage) and one real brother (DO – from my mother’s second marriage to my father).

 

When I was 3 weeks old my mother and father dedicated me to the church they attended. The good old Four Square Church. This was a big deal. My dedication was the first time in a long time my grandpa (Red) and grandma (Fairy) entered a church… So it was a big deal in our family. So, needless to say I went to a four square church for a little while. Then things started to get rocky between my parents. My dad then started to go to a church called.. The First Church Of God. I’m not sure if it was Four Square-esk or more on the Methodist side.

 

When I was around the age of three, I was sexually molested from my baby sitter. He (BK) was 17 years old and my father was friend of his mother (MK). They went to church together. Needless to say, my mom started to notice that when coloring in my coloring book, I preferred the color black and I was digging the black into the paper.. hard-core. This caught my mother attention and then I was taken to a councilor to see what was going on with me. This was when my mom found out about everything going on with me. While my molestation was happening, my parents were in the process of getting a divorce. My mom filed a report with the Salina, Kansas police department and after they interviewed me like a billion times, the cops said that none of my stories matched. BK was given a slap on the wrist and told to go home. To this day, my dad doesn’t believe this ever took place. He feels that my mom told me to say all of this, that way she could say my dad was bad guys for letting this happen to his child. Needless to say – I being touched in a bad way at the age of 3 and no one listening or caring did damage me, just a little bit. During the divorce, my mom tried to fight for custody over my brother and me. I remember sitting in the hall way while my parents were in the court room. To this day I have some bad memories about this. Anywho… According to my father he was given custody for my brother and me because my mom was deemed as a bad mother. According to my mother, she was given custody but my father kept us anyways. Who should I believe… ? Doesn’t matter….. Later in life I found out that they were both con-artists… so I guess it really doesn’t matter.

 

My mother moved on… 5 years after I was born, my mom has my little half sister (AR – from my mom’s 4th marriage). [Technically AR is from my mom’s 3rd marriage. See after getting a divorce from my dad, she married this Mexican man… who later found out he had a wife in Mexico, so that marriage was annulled. I remember that guy too. His name was Mario… My mom would take me over to his house… give me a Dr. pepper and sit me in front of the TV, while they went into the bed room and had sex for a while…. I hate that memory, along with many others.]

 

So, I grew up with my Father (WM) and my older brother (DO). Obviously when kids are getting older, a parent will give the cold daily/weekly responsibilities. One of my daily responsibilities was to take all of my dad’s medications and set them up for the week. He took many pills for his problems. They reacted badly to each other. My dad would get violent to us (my bother and I). Whenever I got in trouble my dad would take my hairbrush and smack my ass. When I was 7 or so he hit so hard it broke my hairbrush. Once that happened he stopped hitting me with the brush. My dad would scream and yell, take all the dishes and throw them on the kitchen floor, get made and leave for hours.. with me and my brother lone in the house. Maybe this is why I hate to take medication. It just sucks having these memories and them still affecting me in some way or another.

 

Even though my family was dysfunctional…. We still went to church every Sunday to save face. It’s like, a bad egg sitting with the good eggs pretending to be one of the good ones, when in al actuality all the eggs are all really bad. They pretend -- just to save face. Most of the adults that attended the church had dark secrets. Alcoholics, wife beaters, child molesters, bad parents, etc… It’s like people used their “faith” as a protection. I believe in God, therefore he loves me no matter what I do.

 

All children are sexually curious at an early age. My firs kiss was at the age of 6. It was with my brother’s best friend. I had a huge crush of him (MF) so I so liked the idea of someone liking me in that way… When I started to develop (yes I got boobs at the age of 8 – YES 8 AND IT SUCKED), I started to get curious about the idea of intimacy and sex. I would play house with my best friends. Boys…. .No, it was the girls I was interested in experimenting with. I was too scared of boys, plus I was at the stage were boys still had cooties. My mom and dad never really did the sex talk, when I needed it. My dad avoided it at all cost, since he didn’t know how to approach the subject with a girl. Sex talk was forbidden in our house. It was okay for my dad to view pornographic material, since he wasn’t his little girl doing it. My mom on the other hand, when I was 17 said.. there are condoms in my drawer, if you need it – use it… No questions asked…

 

My dad re-married when I was 8. When him and her (NA) were dating she was kewl. I liked her a lot even though she was like 15 years older than my dad. Once they got married, she flipped and became a bitch to me and my brother. BUT, NA did teach me one thing that always stuck to me… It doesn’t matter what you believe in, as long as you believe in something. Because of NA, I wanted to study up on different religions, other than Christianity. Now, I was never baptized or claimed to be a believer in Jesus type of “Christian” (I just went to church like I was told to by my dad). I always thought that the ideas behind Christianity were good (i.e. the golden rule). I was always curious about Judaism and Buddhism and Wicca. My dad always told me that I could practice any religion as long as I never became Catholic… I think that’s kind of funny since when I was 7, I wanted to be a Catholic nun.. Good thing I never went into that direction.

 

My Dad, Step-mom, older brother and myself moved to Southern California when I was 9, almost 10. When we moved we didn’t go to church anymore. My dad says it was because of the fact that he couldn’t find a church he liked.. Back in KS he was very apart of the church. I think that one reason we didn’t go to church anymore is because my dad didn’t care anymore. He didn’t have to save face or pretend because he had his kids and he had NA. Hell, maybe he figured out that Christianity is a big scam.. after all my dad was a con-artist himself.

 

When I was in High School, that is when I dabbled in Buddhism and Wicca. My friends on the other hand constantly invited me to youth bible Study on Wednesday nights or to their church on Sunday. Yeah, I went.. I went because I felt as though I had to.

 

The worst Sunday of my life……. Now I was born on a Sunday and Sunday’s were usually good days for me. But I went to this Baptist church with a friend one Sunday and during the sermon the guy was talking on and on about something… and in my head I had creepy apocalyptic type of “visions”. It freaked me out so much I started to have a panic attack and I had to leave. The Bible is not a book for children to read. I feel that religion is for adults that choose to follow. NA had such an affect on me, about it doesn’t matter – just be who you are, type of idea that instead of saying I believed in this or that or that… I would tell people that I follow the ideas of ----Angela-ism---- That’s right… Angelaism… My own ideas on the matter of Spirituality. I was always Spiritual… never religious.

 

In HS I was a major feminist. I couldn’t understand how woman could say that they are a feminist, yet be a hard core Christian (Protestant/other) or even a Mormon for that matter. At least in the Jewish faith the Jewish line runs down by the mother. Also in HS I was experimenting again with my sexuality. I never really had a boyfriend. I was always the girl with guy friends, but no boyfriend.. I was “one of the guys”. I did have some interesting times with a couple of girls though. At the age of 16 (Jr. in HS) I figured out that I am Bi-Sexual. I am attracted to both sexes. Why Not? It’s not about the sex anyways…. It’s all about the person. Just this idea, I knew I could never be a Christian.. After all God hates fags and women who actually think.

 

I went to college after HS. An All Women’s College. I think I picked this college just to figure myself out. After all I didn’t want to go to college and I was just there to make my daddy proud. After all, I was the straight A student. There I met a beautiful woman named Alexis. I liked her so much but I was too afraid to say anything. She was also Bi, but I was always too shy… [unless the topic was politics and then I’d rip you a new asshole - OR – Religion. Surprisingly after NA became my mother in law I would fight tooth and nail when Religion was mentioned…. I had to hold my tongue MANY times on both of these subjects when family and friends were around]

 

I met Jester in December of 2000. Jester and I met ONLINE. Funny huh? We both listen to Live 105 in the Bay Area and we met on the BBS for their Sunday Night Talk Show we listened to.. Ahh the good old days.. Now Jester is a son of a Dr. in Theology, Blah Blah Blah. I always had to hold my tongue at that house. Jester understood my ideas on spirituality. Instead of going to church we would take long drives and just talk about things regarding spirituality. Jester’s parents didn’t like the fact that he married a woman who was not a Christian. Apparently most Christians only marry Christians. People say it makes for a better marriage or some Bull Shit like that. When Jester and I married, people in his family said that I only married Jester for his Family… You know, since my family was shitty and his family isn’t or something like that. True his family might be more clean-cut, but they are still dysfunctional. Now on the flip side, Jester was said to have only married me for the good sex. I will NOT LIE about that. I’ve been told I am good in bed… but is anyone just so damn good that makes them marriage material?

 

Due to Jester’s family I felt pressured to become a Christian. Not a “fake Christian” but a Real one. When I was Prego with Emily I got caught up in the idea or becoming a real Christian. I think with all of the hormones, etc… it was making me think weird things. Jester mentioned to me one night that he was scared that one day the rapture would happen and I would be left behind. So I was no longer just getting the pressure from Jester’s family, but I was starting to get it from him as well. Wait a minute… Does it matter if I’m a Christian or someone who believes in a higher being? Why should I change who I am just to save face?

 

All I have to say is THANK GOD FOR JESTER’S OLDER BROTHER. Jester looks up to his older brother a lot. I think if it wasn’t for his brother de-converting then Jester wouldn’t have opened his eyes to realize the shit he was raised to believe. Yeah, I will admit, seeing Jester’s brother and Sister-in –Law de-convert was pretty hard on the family. Hell, seeing Jester make a 360 was pretty scary at first too. But does it really matter? No, I married Jester for Jester, not for what God or Gods he believed in.

 

Now when I first joined the board as: NakedSmurf I listed myself as what I was… A Theist. The idea that it doesn’t matter as long as you believe in something. I joined the board to be a supportive wife and friend to Jester. I didn’t understand and I felt left out when he would be up on the computer at 3am looking threw the board. I felt like I was kicked to the curb because he wanted to chat with the people on this board more. It’s like I was rejected. BUT doing research and reading posts and articles was Jester’s way of dealing with his ideas.

 

Jester would pass me reading materials. Yes, I read them. I still had Theist ideas, but deep down I knew that it was all bullshit. I took anthropology in college. The power of Myth. Cultures create myths to use as a crutch. If God is the one and only then why did other cultures have their own ideas about life. … It’s all the same. Our society created God and Jesus, just like the other cultures form the past. God didn’t create the stars. There is a scientific answer for the stars. People are people. We are not perfect. People should believe what they feel is right to them, not to make other people happy. I was not born to make someone else happy. I am here for ME, but I’m also here for my family. Deep down inside I knew.. There is no god. I don’t believe in this bull shit any longer, but I couldn’t say it out loud and admit it to myself.

 

Now I am online as: IvyFairy. Why? Because of the fact that I no longer believe in society’s bullshit. I went from a Theist to an Atheist. Now if evidence is placed before me of god’s existence, then I’ll research it and possibly have a change in ideas.. but I don’t see that happening. All Religion and God seems to me is.. Believe in me or Go To Hell and Suffer. Maybe that is by I like the TV show StarGate SG-1 so much. It shows how people claim to be a god, so that others or less fortunate people will obey them.. Why? I don’t know, maybe they are self conscious in some way that they need to control others. It’s a complex some people have and I think it the complex that the Christian God has.

 

So, Yes NA (My step mom) had a big part in my way of thinking. I doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you believe in something… Well, I do believe in something. I believe that God does NOT exist. Therefore, when I die.. If there really is a god, at least I can say… Hey! At least I believed in something and I stood for it, instead of saving face.

 

- Thank you for your time and this is MY Story.

 

 

- IvyFairy

[Lizard]

I'm reading your story..and got totally caught up in it. You have been through much.

I had to go back to the beginning to make sure I read the first line right:

I was born in the early 1980s.

 

I have at least 20 years on you..and my children were all born in that same timeframe.

 

You have much wisdom..thank you for sharing that part of you.

 

I am also glad that you didn't fully fall for the bullshit that so many of us did, causing further harm..

[IvyFairy]

I'm reading your story..and got totally caught up in it.  You have been through much.

I had to go back to the beginning to make sure I read the first line right:

I have at least 20 years on you..and my children were all born in that same timeframe. 

 

You have much wisdom..thank you for sharing that part of you. 

 

I am also glad that you didn't fully fall for the bullshit that so many of us did, causing further harm..

99098[/snapback]

 

 

Yup. Good Old 1981 to be exact.

 

Yeah, as much as I disliked my Step-Mom (RIP),

I have to give her credit for the ideas on spirituality she shared with me.

 

----

 

Sorry for the novel everyone. I could have been more detailed from 1999-2005, but I wanted to spare you all since I was detailed about my shitty childhood.

 

----

 

Ohh One thing I didn't mention in my story.

 

My Mom - Baptist

 

Older Half Sister - Converted Non-Practicing Mormon

 

Older Half Brother- Converted Non-Practicing Mormon

 

Older Brother- Converted Mormon (He's the one that converted My older half sibling and tried to convert me the summer of 1999. Jester has orders that if I converted to Mormonism to shoot me in the head. I'm not joking about that BTW...)

 

Younger Half Sister - Baptist

 

My Father - Was a Protestant of some type (but I think my older brother is trying to convert him to Mormonism)

 

My Step-Mother (I think she was a Theist but not sure. She always said that Earth was Hell. I'm not sure what that belief really is though)

 

My Great Great Grand-Father Olaf... I'm not sure what he was originally, but My Older Brother was able to convert him to Mormonism in 2001. (THAT IS FUCKING CRAZY!!!)

[Dianka]

Maybe that is by I like the TV show StarGate SG-1 so much.

 

Dude! I love that show.

 

Born in '81???

 

 

I already have a twin......

 

Could we be triplets?

 

 

Btw, thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry that no one believed you. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

 

But you grew up to be a good egg, and what cute children!

[Lunar Shadow]

Ivy baby

 

your 20-somthing paragraphs make me feel like I wasn't detailed enough in my X-imony.

 

 

but thank you for sharing

[Lanakila]

Thanks Ivy for sharing.

[Fweethawt]

Thank you for sharing, Ivy.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Pretty fucked up life Ivy..

 

Glad that you made it through to *the Other Side* and eventually here to Dave's House to post your story.

 

Appreciated.

 

kevinL.

[Lunar Shadow]

how ever baby I am glad that you have stood by me and been supportive in my rejuction of gawd not many would do that I would think most would not want any thing to do with it. I love you

[Reach]

Deep down inside I knew.. There is no god. I don’t believe in this bull shit any longer, but I couldn’t say it out loud and admit it to myself.

Isn't it liberating and exhilarating to face your fears (especially that there is no God and the ramifications and the uncertainties that follow) and walk right through that fear to freedom?

 

Thank you for sharing your story with us, Ivy. It's incredible what we can get through, what we can survive, if we have to, but I'm so sorry that you were abused at such a tender age. It never should have happened to you and I'll bet you will watch your own children and make certain no molester gets to them.

[IvyFairy]

I know that some of you just see me as Jester's wife. But we have totally different stories. I knew that I needed to post "my story" eventually. It took me 3 hours to type that out. Some of you could spend 30 mins and have it done. But I did it at night while jester and I were watching BatMan (the new one that just came out). I had to take time out for Keela, etc... I'm just happy I was able to do it. It was More than you all probably wanted to know.

 

Can you believe after that I came out pretty "normal". I'm not psycho or anything (which is always good). I don't see myself as a victim anymore. About 2 months ago I wrote my dad a long letter stating that whatever may have happened in my childhood I forgive him. He was pissted off and he took it the wrong way. After explaining it like 5 times I think he understood. No one is a perfect parent, but damn... one should at least give sometype of credit to their children. Sometimes Shit Happens.. I guess it's just the way one reacts to the situation. I'm keeping a close out on my two girls. But it something does happen to them we don't want to over-react.. If we do, it could get ugly.

 

Anywho... That is my story... in a nut shell.

 

~Ivy

[IvyFairy]

Okay. It has been a little while since I posted this stuff. I've just hit my BITTER Phase. And It's bad. Jester says it's normal... But maybe since it's the Holidays, etc and Jester being gone, it's worse. I'm just ohh so f*ckin bitter....

 

 

 

Thursday, December 08, 2005

Jester & Ivy's MySpace.....

 

Atheist and Agnostic Musicians & Songs

Current mood: awake

Category: Movies, TV, Celebrities

 

Imagine

Writen by: John Lennon

 

Imagine there's no heaven,

It's easy if you try,

No hell below us,

Above us only sky,

Imagine all the people

living for today...

 

Imagine there's no countries,

It isnt hard to do,

Nothing to kill or die for,

No religion too,

Imagine all the people

living life in peace...

 

Imagine no possesions,

I wonder if you can,

No need for greed or hunger,

A brotherhood of man,

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world...

 

You may say Im a dreamer,

but Im not the only one,

I hope some day you'll join us,

And the world will live as one.

 

 

---

Atheist and Agnostic Musicians

http://www.atheistalliance.org/aaw/atheistmusicians.html

 

John Lennon (1940-1980) was the composer of what has become an anthem for atheists around the world, "Imagine." Lennon rejected religion and dogma, but he was not really an atheist - he espoused a sort of vague spirituality.

http://www.john-lennon.com/

http://www.legend-johnlennon.com/

http://www.instantkarma.com/

http://www.bagism.com/

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

River of Dreams Lyrics

By: Billy Joel

 

In the middle of the night

I go walking in my sleep

From the mountains of faith

To the river so deep

I must be lookin' for something

Something sacred I lost

But the river is wide

And it's too hard to cross

 

Even though I know the river is wide

I walk down every evening and stand on the shore

I try to cross to the opposite side

So I can finally find what I've been looking for

 

In the middle of the night

I go walking in my sleep

Through the valley of fear

To a river so deep

I been searching for something

Taken out of my soul

Something I'd never lose

Something somebody stole

 

I don't know why I go walking at night

But now I'm tired and I don't want to walk anymore

I hope it doesn't take the rest of my life

Until I find what it is I've been looking for

 

(Two beat Pause)

 

In the middle of the night

I go walking in my sleep

Through the jungle of doubt

To the river so deep

I know I'm searching for something

Something so undefined

That it can only be seen

By the eyes of the blind

In the middle of the night (break)

 

’M’not sure about a life after this

God knows I've never been a spiritual man

Baptized by the fire, I wade into the river

That is runnin' to the promised land (Long Four beat Pause)

 

In the middle of the night

I go walking in my sleep

Through the desert of the truth

To the river so deep

We all end in the ocean

We all start in the streams

We're all carried along

By the river of dreams

In the middle of the night

 

 

Atheist and Agnostic Musicians

http://www.atheistalliance.org/aaw/atheistmusicians.html

 

Billy Joel is listed in Celebrity Atheists as "ambiguous," though he has, over the years, repeatedly said he was "an atheist." Still, he makes quasi-religious statements like, "God knows I've never been a spiritual man."

 

As a child he was exposed to Judaism, Catholicism, and the Church of Christ -- but rejected them because of their exclusivity and guilt inducing beliefs.

 

"...I still feel very much like an atheist in the religious aspects of things," Joel says. "But there are spiritual planes that I'm aware of that I don't know anything about and that I can't explain..." Joel believes music connects with these planes and he uses religious allusions in many of his songs.

 

Visit Columbia Records site: http://www.billyjoel.com/

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear God

By: XTC

Lyrics By: Andy Partidge

 

Dear god,

Hope you got the letter,

And I pray you can make it better down here.

I don’t mean a big reduction in the price of beer,

But all the people that you made in your image,

See them starving on their feet,

’cause they don’t get enough to eat

 

From god,

I can’t believe in you.

 

Dear god,

Sorry to disturb you,

But I feel that I should be heard loud and clear.

We all need a big reduction in amount of tears,

And all the people that you made in your image,

See them fighting in the street,

’cause they can’t make opinions meet,

About god,

I can’t believe in you.

 

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue?

Did you make mankind after we made you?

And the devil too!

 

Dear god,

Don’t know if you noticed,

But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.

Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look,

And all the people that you made in your image,

Still believing that junk is true.

Well I know it ain’t and so do you,

Dear god,

I can’t believe in,

I don’t believe in,

 

I won’t believe in heaven and hell.

No saints, no sinners,

No devil as well.

No pearly gates, no thorny crown.

You’re always letting us humans down.

The wars you bring, the babes you drown.

Those lost at sea and never found,

And it’s the same the whole world ’round.

The hurt I see helps to compound,

That the father, son and holy ghost,

Is just somebody’s unholy hoax,

And if you’re up there you’ll perceive,

That my heart’s here upon my sleeve.

If there’s one thing I don’t believe in...

 

It’s you,

Dear god.

 

Atheist and Agnostic Musicians

http://www.atheistalliance.org/aaw/atheistmusicians.html

 

Andy Partridge is lead singer and songwriter of the band XTC. His views are expressed in the band's song "Dear God" about which Andy says, "It should've been a nail in throat of the public, but instead some took it as a declaration of faith when I wanted to make it clear that I don't believe in God."

 

Find out more about XTC at: http://chalkhills.org/who.html

Visit the Official XTC website at: http://www.xtcidearecords.co.uk/

 

[charley]

Hi Ivy ! -

My name's Charley, I'm new here. Your post was the first one that I read and I was completely enthralled. Everything that you mentioned was pertainant and informative. Your post also made me feel very welcome here and glad that I have finally found an island of sanity....people who want to use their minds for something more than a rhetorical database. Unfortunately, that distinction we have from the herd around us is most often gained by being forcibly alienated from the mainsteam by traumatic incidents., and them trying to think our way back into the comfortable solace of normalcy with religious sustanance.....only to find what weak and sterile thinking is at it's core. As long as one doen't connect the dots, they can comfortably graze with the herd at the oasis of spirituality. But, apply the same common sense that you would with doing anything well to these matters, and you have strayed from the safety of the herd, wandering alone in the jungle...where the predators lurk. So, the gospel according to Charley is to be a bigger predator than the ones who threaten you. It sounds like you have been doing well with that, kiddo.

I'm about bursring with advice because our religious dabblings (xianity, buddhism, wicca) are similar....and well, I've gone a bit farther. But, I'm too concerned with making a good first impression as a board newbie to offer unsolicited advice. So, if you want some warm-hearted guidance from an old sinner, ask away.

Hey, did you ever see this site? GREAT for christian-taunting gifts :

 

Miss Poppy

 

Thanks for your post and be a good bad girl.

[IvyFairy]

Hi Ivy ! -

My name's Charley, I'm new here. Your post was the first one that I read and I was completely enthralled. Everything that you mentioned was pertainant and informative. Your post also made me feel very welcome here and glad that I have finally found an island of sanity....people who want to use their minds for something more than a rhetorical database. Unfortunately, that distinction we have from the herd around us is most often gained by being forcibly alienated from the mainsteam by traumatic incidents., and them trying to think our way back into the comfortable solace of normalcy with religious sustanance.....only to find what weak and sterile thinking is at it's core. As long as one doen't connect the dots, they can comfortably graze with the herd at the oasis of spirituality. But, apply the same common sense that you would with doing anything well to these matters, and you have strayed from the safety of the herd, wandering alone in the jungle...where the predators lurk. So, the gospel according to Charley is to be a bigger predator than the ones who threaten you. It sounds like you have been doing well with that, kiddo.

I'm about bursring with advice because our religious dabblings (xianity, buddhism, wicca) are similar....and well, I've gone a bit farther. But, I'm too concerned with making a good first impression as a board newbie to offer unsolicited advice. So, if you want some warm-hearted guidance from an old sinner, ask away.

Hey, did you ever see this site? GREAT for christian-taunting gifts :

 

Miss Poppy

 

Thanks for your post and be a good bad girl.

 

Did you ever get my Personal Message?

I would love to chat with you.

[beverly]

HI,

 

I love John Lennon too...

but, the poor man pissed off the christians with the infamous quote " we are the Beatles, more popular than Jesus Christ" (it was sarcasm, not boasting,,, but.....way above the mentality of a basic christian)

 

and, some born again christian guy shot him in the head

 

I'm sorry about all you suffered

 

the churches are corrupt

so the god thing is not working the way it is supposed to

 

and, if I ever meet god, I will personally bitch slap him for the pentecostals

and then I shall make him turn his cheek and bitch slap him again for the baptists

 

because too many children have suffered the damnation of the churches

innocent children

 

BTW, John Lennon did try to say the same things that Jesus taught, peace, love, share the planet

 

so,, I am holding on to the basic tenants of the faith,,, same like John

 

it's just that the churches have fucked it all up

 

I'm glad that you have been able to survive it all

 

Beverly

[SkepticOfBible]

So is Jester a member of this club?or has he stopped posting here