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I'm Not A Religious Churchgoer But I Believe In Jesus Words, Anyone Else?


SummerMoon
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I believe Jesus' words are good wisdom but I don't understand how the churches interpret it. They think being a good person won't get you into heaven. It's very confusing and hypocritical.

 

Who else believes in Jesus words without the religion?

 

 

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What I take of Jesus' words are somewhat hit and miss - he did teach some good things that we can live by to make the world a better place, but what he said about his return,etc. was obviously not correct. Just curious, have you read the Jefferson Bible or by its formal name, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth? It's much better reading than the Gospels. All the supposed prophecies from the OT are removed, the resurrection, etc.

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If by "Jesus' words" you mean "those ascribed to him by his followers to further their agenda" then yes, I believe some of them are good wisdom. Not all though, just some. As Eugene has said, his statements can be a bit of a hit and miss.

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The whole problem is that we don't really know what "Jesus' words" really are and what were put in there by people later on.

 

I gave up because it was just too problematic.

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I believe Jesus' words are good wisdom but I don't understand how the churches interpret it. They think being a good person won't get you into heaven. It's very confusing and hypocritical.

 

Who else believes in Jesus words without the religion?

I would say yes in some ways. I often see truth in certain things attributed to him that transcends Christianity itself. The same with the words of other religious figures. Particularly being raised in the West, a certain ethos permeates our cultures and the sayings and teachings are infused in it, whether or not one is directly aware of the actual teachings or not (and that is both good and bad, actually). For me, its an easy language to use to talk about certain human principles if I were so inclined, since I am so vastly more familiar with its symbols than other religions.

 

As far as how churches interpret it in how you say, well, my view is that they are so stuck on the religious symbols in a child-mind that takes them so literally they fail to understand the symbolic nature of them that rises above religion. In their dogma, they fail to apprehend much of anything that transcends or elevates their humanity, any more than being part of a political party does. The confusion is removed when you realize they are immature.

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Thre are some "rules for living" that are very broad and just happen to be repeated by several different religions.

 

These are the teachings of Jesus that I am prepared to take on borad in general. Now don't you folks come and find some nasty little teaching that they all include. I am speaking of the nice peaceful, general ones, such as "Do unto others ...."

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I like the part where he says love your neighbors. Loving is much better than hating. But did I need a bible to tell me that? Nah, not really. I think a lot of the good stuff he says could have come from anybody (and it probably did).

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Some of it's good, some of it's out of touch. Some of it also showed that he suffered from paranoid delusions i,e, "he who is not for me is against me."

 

I put Jesus's teachings into practice at school. Scriptures like "turn the other cheek" and "bless your enemies" turned me into a doormat. Although it was good advice when it came to some people, it didn't work for all.

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The whole problem is that we don't really know what "Jesus' words" really are and what were put in there by people later on.

 

Good point. His words were written by people who weren't even there when he said them.

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My boyfriend likes to call himself christian, but says (to me) the part of the bible that makes the most sense to him is the Sermon on the Mount. Basically, all the moral stuff. So I started quoting Buddhist scriptures, Sufi poets, and lots of other stuff, and he agrees, he's more about general "don't be a dick" morals. But he largely doesn't care.

So, sure, for a long while, he counted himself as a Jesus-follower, and hated church. He still hates church, but is more an apatheist these days.

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Jesus was a dick. You have to do some serious cherry picking before you come away with a nice guy.

How do you conclude he was a dick?

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Jesus was a dick. You have to do some serious cherry picking before you come away with a nice guy.

How do you conclude he was a dick?

 

Just a basic straight-forward reading of his teachings results in creating a sense of guilt simply for being human, moreover, the idea that as a human you are utterly unworthy of love or even life without some form of interference. Add to that his claims that he was the only way out of this mess and you end up with a megalomaniacal cult leader, or in modern vernacular, a dick. :D

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Just a small sample from the beloved sermon on the mount:

 

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

 

23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

 

25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce

31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

 

Unless you do not take him directly at his word and approach this with the idea of seeking hidden gems in between the lines, every single person on the planet ends up being completely condemned. And who's their savior? Why he is. How convenient. Koresh and Jones had a perfect model.

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Anyone that marries a divorced woman commits adultery? Enough harm in that little phrase (no matter what the circumstances of the divorce) to condemn the whole.

 

Of course he was a man of his times.

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And add to the list that his entire purpose (as far as the anonymously authored gospels tell us) was to die and sate the blood-thirst of God, who was pissed at mankind for something done several millennia ago when Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree he planted in the same garden where they lived. Now of course, God is only pissed at those that don't believe this myth is really deep truth, so he tortures forever those that don't love him.

 

But the general concepts of being kind, sharing stuff with others who have none, focusing on mercy instead of vengeance, those are helpful for building a healthful society. But they are tainted by the rest of the scriptures, so why bother with the Bible to begin with?

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For an earnest search for the real words of Jesus (if there was such a person on whom the gospels were based), one should look to the Gospel of Thomas. Even some secular scholars believe that at least some of the sayings recorded there "might" be from the true Jesus.

 

As far as Jesus' alleged words in the gospels, some are okay some are total balderdash and would lead one to live a terrible life. On the whole, I reject Jesus' alleged words in the gospels as not being authentic (until proven otherwise).

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If you were to truely follow jesus's teachings you would have a miserable life. Even christians don't completely follow his teachings like the bible says to, atleast I've never met one who does. They all just cherry pick verses.When I read jesus's words(or atleast what the bible says are his words) it just sounds like the ravings of a mad man from a time period where science had yet to explain many of lifes mysteries.

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Thanks for all your replies. I agree with the moderator first off. They are immature and sticking to symbols like "having Jesus" without embracing and talking about what that means like loving others, all others, being humble, having good values, and the sermon on the mount like another poster said. I have mass mass confusion and I have for years. I have had some paranormal things happen and I know there is a God, spirits, and morality but I can't stand how church goers think that "having Jesus" "accepting Jesus" means they are going to heaven without good values and condemning those who have them to hell. These pretty nice churches with well educated people and nice smiling pastors have the worst outlook on life. Its like they want you to only be in their church or some church and ifyou aren't, you are evil.They need to justify you going to church and giving them money, while you are having trouble buying food or not eating because of lack, they are eating out, buying junk food, having hobbies of collections of things like trains or some kind of models, having inground pools, and a retirement account that you don't have yet. I really really hate this.

 

What happened tonight is that I was listening to a teaching from a church online. This has a man who is very very friendly looking and sounding, all the time. Its a terrible story he told. And this is typical even in the nice churches. This story took place, true: A man was doing cleaning work part time while in theology school and he starts talking to a man who works at the building he was cleaning. He tells the man he is in school for this, to know God's thoughts. The man has a degree in astronomy and says "do you want to know my thoughts on religion/philosophy?" "yes" "I believe in the golden rule, in doing to others how you would want to be treated, treating people fairly, and treating people right, in the end, with God, it will all work out" The theology student says "do you want to know my philosophy on astronomy" "yes" and in dripping sarcasm "twinkle twinkle little star how I wonder what you are...need I go on...in the same way you haven't studied the thoughts of God" This is insane. This is typical. They degrade people who do good. as if they are some criminal, evil, mean-spirited, conartist, satan worshipper.

 

I believe in God and Jesus but in the way that it means I must respect and care for all people and to not think that I am going to heaven simply because I believe but that everything I do or dont and the motive will be judged in the end. And I know that many nonchristians are good people. But many christians are not, they are wrongly devisive and elite.

 

 

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What happened tonight is that I was listening to a teaching from a church online. This has a man who is very very friendly looking and sounding, all the time. Its a terrible story he told. And this is typical even in the nice churches. This story took place, true: A man was doing cleaning work part time while in theology school and he starts talking to a man who works at the building he was cleaning. He tells the man he is in school for this, to know God's thoughts. The man has a degree in astronomy and says "do you want to know my thoughts on religion/philosophy?" "yes" "I believe in the golden rule, in doing to others how you would want to be treated, treating people fairly, and treating people right, in the end, with God, it will all work out" The theology student says "do you want to know my philosophy on astronomy" "yes" and in dripping sarcasm "twinkle twinkle little star how I wonder what you are...need I go on...in the same way you haven't studied the thoughts of God" This is insane. This is typical. They degrade people who do good. as if they are some criminal, evil, mean-spirited, conartist, satan worshipper.

So this online church now has the same type of bullshit stories that the regular church has used against the "elites" for years? The stories where some asshole college professor gets smacked down by a student, who is sometimes a soldier of some sort, for daring to challenge the one and only "god" of the universe? And so this apologetic gets turned around and still works to incite? How conveniently stupid.

 

You're being lied to and manipulated. Stop it.

 

I believe in God and Jesus but in the way that it means I must respect and care for all people and to not think that I am going to heaven simply because I believe but that everything I do or dont and the motive will be judged in the end. And I know that many nonchristians are good people. But many christians are not, they are wrongly devisive and elite.

So you believe in a "god" and a "jesus" that you've invented because they appeal to you and your values. Good for you. That doesn't mean they're real, like you seem to be, but they're what you want and they may be what you need right now. If the xians you know are divisive and elite then don't bother with them.

 

mwc

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Just a small sample from the beloved sermon on the mount:

 

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

 

23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

 

25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce

31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

 

Unless you do not take him directly at his word and approach this with the idea of seeking hidden gems in between the lines, every single person on the planet ends up being completely condemned. And who's their savior? Why he is. How convenient. Koresh and Jones had a perfect model.

@Summermoon: Add to that, Jesus was also a racist. He called gentiles, 'dogs.' This does nothing to reinforce any concept I had about a nice Jesus. Considering Moses and Jesus were both mythological figures, neither one of them had anything to say. The writers wrote what they wanted to write about Jesus and Moses. It is still fiction. Buddha is a better role model. At least he was real and alive at one time. How can someone believe in a Real Jesus™ or his Real Message™ if Jesus did not exist or if the babble was written on the fly and claims made about Jesus were not true? What do you have left to believe about Jesus when you take away the bible? Nothing. Jesus was not a perfect sacrifice. The prophet Jeremiah wrote in the OT that the law was untrue, the prophets made claims that were not true, the scriptures were not true concerning Moses and else where in the bible even God claimed he abhorred sacrifice. If God hated sacrifice then how does Jesus become the perfect sacrifice? The bible is a fairy tale factory. Take away the bible and the religion disappears.

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I believe in God and Jesus but in the way that it means I must respect and care for all people and to not think that I am going to heaven simply because I believe but that everything I do or dont and the motive will be judged in the end. And I know that many nonchristians are good people. But many christians are not, they are wrongly devisive and elite.

You've really hit the nail on the head about Christians being wrong for telling people being good doesn't get you to heaven. Most Christians don't see how twisted that is, but you have. As for still believing in Jesus and God, you should keep believing the way you want to and never let anyone tell you you're wrong or just imagining. When you're a Christian you think you know what everyone else should believe, and sometimes that attitude carries over to ex-Christians, but it's bullshit.. do whatever you want to do, believe whatever you want to believe.

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Jesus was a dick. You have to do some serious cherry picking before you come away with a nice guy.

How do you conclude he was a dick?

Someone here had a signature that said in effect... "Anyone who commands you to love is a dick."

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What happened tonight is that I was listening to a teaching from a church online. This has a man who is very very friendly looking and sounding, all the time. Its a terrible story he told. And this is typical even in the nice churches. This story took place, true: A man was doing cleaning work part time while in theology school and he starts talking to a man who works at the building he was cleaning. He tells the man he is in school for this, to know God's thoughts. The man has a degree in astronomy and says "do you want to know my thoughts on religion/philosophy?" "yes" "I believe in the golden rule, in doing to others how you would want to be treated, treating people fairly, and treating people right, in the end, with God, it will all work out" The theology student says "do you want to know my philosophy on astronomy" "yes" and in dripping sarcasm "twinkle twinkle little star how I wonder what you are...need I go on...in the same way you haven't studied the thoughts of God" This is insane. This is typical. They degrade people who do good. as if they are some criminal, evil, mean-spirited, conartist, satan worshipper.

So this online church now has the same type of bullshit stories that the regular church has used against the "elites" for years? The stories where some asshole college professor gets smacked down by a student, who is sometimes a soldier of some sort, for daring to challenge the one and only "god" of the universe? And so this apologetic gets turned around and still works to incite? How conveniently stupid.

 

You're being lied to and manipulated. Stop it.

 

I believe in God and Jesus but in the way that it means I must respect and care for all people and to not think that I am going to heaven simply because I believe but that everything I do or dont and the motive will be judged in the end. And I know that many nonchristians are good people. But many christians are not, they are wrongly devisive and elite.

So you believe in a "god" and a "jesus" that you've invented because they appeal to you and your values. Good for you. That doesn't mean they're real, like you seem to be, but they're what you want and they may be what you need right now. If the xians you know are divisive and elite then don't bother with them.

 

mwc

 

The online church is a real church near my house. I didn't want to say that in case anyone wanted the link. The theology student was condemning to someone who in paraphase said to "love your neighbor" as Jesus said this himself that hangs on the whole law and the prophets. He said that he didn't know anything when he gave a good response.

 

I didn't invent a moral God. I believe there is one and it scares me into not going to church because they don't have moral common sense. I have always believed this and the church has always tried to play down works and loving others, and humility etc.

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I believe in God and Jesus but in the way that it means I must respect and care for all people and to not think that I am going to heaven simply because I believe but that everything I do or dont and the motive will be judged in the end. And I know that many nonchristians are good people. But many christians are not, they are wrongly devisive and elite.

You've really hit the nail on the head about Christians being wrong for telling people being good doesn't get you to heaven. Most Christians don't see how twisted that is, but you have. As for still believing in Jesus and God, you should keep believing the way you want to and never let anyone tell you you're wrong or just imagining. When you're a Christian you think you know what everyone else should believe, and sometimes that attitude carries over to ex-Christians, but it's bullshit.. do whatever you want to do, believe whatever you want to believe.

 

It's down right bizarre to say that doing what Jesus said to do and letting God work it out in the end is evil and satanic. They want you do say you have faith, do no works and then believe you are one of the elite going to heaven. I do not know about myself and I don't mean that to just sound humble. I am lazy and have had mental problems over this and been irresponsible. I am definelty not any elite. I am proud to see others succeed and be happy and good without any screwed up noncommon sense religious language that is in every church.

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