Happy Father's Day

[older]

 

I've heard again and again how stay at home moms work as hard or harder than the full time working parent. Bullshit. Some five years ago my wife had surgery. She was temporarily debilitated. We had no parents or similar support system to help and I took probably about three weeks of leave to be a full time caretaker parent as well as to take care of my wife. All the cooking, cleaning, dishwashing, diaper changing, nurturing, parenting, and dealing with my wife's illness was actually very easy compared to my job. No, not washing the dishes while your wife watches TV after having been out working ten or twelve hours is not being a deadbeat.

 

 

Right on. I once was in almost the same situation. For about six months my wife worked full-time while I stayed home and did all the home-front stuff including caring for our toddler. She was the one who'd come home and collapse on the couch. After that period in our lives, I often told her how I'd gladly trade the salt mine for the home front in a heartbeat. My job was not physical; it was mentally exhausting. Fortunately, my honey is a keeper (42 years) and we both respect what we each bring to our relationship.

[SleeplessGhost]

I also like how he forgot to mention that, for the most part, dads don't need or expect constant praise for doing their job. Guess what I got for father's day? A text from my stepmom saying happy fathers day. I don't even think my wife knew what day it was. If I forgot mothers day? Let's just say that won't happen again.

 

Here's to all the dads out there that do work that nine to five job every day. To the guys who work as much over time as they can get so that maybe they can afford to get their kids something nice and not break the bank. Here's to the father's that will work in a the weather, in a factory, or even in an office and never complain. Here is to the dad that works a twelve hour shift and comes home to read a story to their kid before bed. In short, here's to us, guys: the lazy, sexist, unfeeling, pigs that we are. Here's to us.

[stryper]

I also like how he forgot to mention that, for the most part, dads don't need or expect constant praise for doing their job. Guess what I got for father's day? A text from my stepmom saying happy fathers day. I don't even think my wife knew what day it was. If I forgot mothers day? Let's just say that won't happen again.

 

Here's to all the dads out there that do work that nine to five job every day. To the guys who work as much over time as they can get so that maybe they can afford to get their kids something nice and not break the bank. Here's to the father's that will work in a the weather, in a factory, or even in an office and never complain. Here is to the dad that works a twelve hour shift and comes home to read a story to their kid before bed. In short, here's to us, guys: the lazy, sexist, unfeeling, pigs that we are. Here's to us.

 

 

Two pairs of pants and New belt. Not even wraped up...just tossed on the bed and slightly rumpeled from the little dude tormenting the cat.

 

But I don't resent it. I have never understood father's day and mother's day before anyway. father's day was actually an afterthought anyway. But my wife can't complain, because I do all the laundry and dishes and stay up and feed the baby at 1 am so she can go to work at 5 and be fresh....and get up with the little dude when he's puking at midnight.

 

Ya know just those little things.

 

[Onyx]

Happy father's day!

 

Anyway, any gender discrimination is wrong, but I also think judging fathers for playing trucks with their children or barbies for their children is wrong too. Cuique suum - each to their own. If you see a man cooking in apron and he chose it, it doesn't mean he's pussy whipped. If you see a man fishing, it does not mean he's a misogynist. They can do both. Any time spent with their children is quality time, regardless if the father joins in barbie play with his boy (or girl for that matter) or fishing with the girl (or boy) Better than having the mother or father (or both) hitting children daily. It may seem weird, but whatever happened to not judging eccentric activities that you do not understand?

 

As for women hating men, well, they are being petty and vindictive. Same with men hating women. Both haters should grow up and focus on better things. Revenge is not desirable when it comes to be nondiscrimination. I oppose Andrea Dworkin as much as I oppose Paul of the New Testament.

 

So as Thurisaz said in the illuminating post:

 

As a sidenote, I don't think you US folks have heard about what happened a short while ago in the German city of Goslar (not too far from where I live).Nowadays, every local administration here has a secretary of gender equality issues, which is basically a good thing for sure. Now, the lady sitting on that chair in Goslar did one thing that hardly any of those secretaries does: She pointed out that inequality can run both ways, that men can be discriminated against too. What happened? The entire administration, throughout ALL political parties, immediately conspired to make up reasons to get her fired, and they succeeded.Media in general: The common things airing here (those that aren't neutral on the issue) feature exactly two alternatives. Either men doing things that "everyone knows" men like (for example, weekly reports on automobile tech, new car models and such) or women applauding "womanly" things AND humiliating men at the same time. You never see any man in any situation doing anything that even possibly might be seen as putting down women, and I trust you can all imagine what would happen if any man ever did.It's becoming more and more aware here that in our schools the boys fall further and further behind but what is done about it? NOTHING. Why? Because "everyone knows that girls need special support". And they get their special support. Always. No matter whether they really need it or not. There's no need to think about it after all, because like I said "everyone knows".And lately there's been lots of brouhaha about a court trial here - the (formerly) rather popular TV weatherman Joerg Kachelmann was sued by his ex-girlfriend for alleged rape. From the very beginning all the media pushed through with what a monster this man supposedly is, even before the fucking trial started. Now, after several months, the judge declared him innocent because, well, there's no hard evidence either way, and in dubio pro reo is still one of the pillars of any decent system of justice. Guess what happened? The media and a nice number of rape victim support organizations started to scream from the rooftops that "this sentence will make women less likely to report rapes therefore that man MUST be sentenced to a tough and long jail time!". Ummm, excuse me everyone... so you do advocate that we forget about justice and human rights because somewhere someone might be less likely to have the balls and report a crime?Imagine what would've happened if the entire thing had happened the other way round... if he would've been declared guilty and some men's protection group had demanded that the judgment be overturned.I don't know much about actual percentages of discrimination and such against either of the genders, but looking around here in my German homeland, the mountain of evidence seems damn huge. Evidence that indeed in this era it's perfectly normal to bash men while you'd get your balls ripped off immediately if you even thought about doing likewise to women.I'm not against gender equality, definitely not. But what's happening, and been happening for a long time, here is not about justice. It's purely about vengeance. And that pisses me off.*off soapbox*Thanks for your attention

 

and I dislike that as much as I dislike the men telling women to be silent in church.

 

So, get your act together, men-haters or you will doom all sensible women to a retribution by your counterparts!

[stryper]

wow the testosterone in this thread is high.

[Kathlene]

Ok Im going to stick my foot in it. I really enjoyed this article. There are some men out there who never change nappies (diapers), who do bugger off all weekend and leave the mother alone to be with the kids. Some men don't realise that mothers need time out too. I hate it when men strut around and think they are some sort of amazing creature if they look after the children for a few hours, as though they are doing an amazing feat. Hello its not childcare, you are actually the parent!

 

I have no respect whatsover for those men who have no idea about their kids lives, or don't take the time out to get to know their children. They have no idea how long those scars are or how deep they go, to feel abandoned by your dad. That rejection hurts, big time. Yes I know women do it too, Im not saying this is just a gender case. From my own personal perspective, it seems to generally involve men though. I once heard somewhere that if you heal the men in the world, you heal the women. I do think men get left out a lot in that area. People assume because they don't say anything, they are ok. Far from it. It just comes out in other areas.

[florduh]

There are some men out there who never change nappies (diapers), who do bugger off all weekend and leave the mother alone to be with the kids. Some men don't realise that mothers need time out too.

All true. My rant is about the current tone that suggest it is most men who fall into the category. The stupid, lazy, uncaring and bumbling buffoon make up the majority of depictions of the male of the species. There are bad fathers and just as many bad mothers out there. Media molds opinion and unfortunately male bashing is riding a crest of popularity and advertisers, news outlets and entertainment offerings are on the bandwagon because a large demographic eats it up.

[dichotomy]

Happy Father's day for two days ago.

 

There was a time when all the social media focussed on the proper role of women and it was largely assumed that men were properly fulfilling their roles. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Your complaint is valid, but your mother undoubtedly suffered the same bullshit.

 

Let's not go back to picking on the Irish. I'm Irish. Let's pick on Civil War reenactors.

 

I agree with this. I agree that the role of 'man' and 'father' is certainly under scrutiny in society at the moment - I can't comment on TV adverts much as I don't have TV - but I am aware of how boys are expected to behave and how the expectations and role of men is being challenged and often unfairly critiqued. However this is no different to what women have suffered for decades, and contrary to what you're seeing, I don't believe this has stopped. The pressure on women to do and be 'everything' is ridiculous - good housewife, loving and supportive wife, good mother, well educated, successful career, active social life, active within the community, active with your child's school - and the conditions and expectations of how to meet these standards are continually increasing!

 

I dislike sexism whether it's towards men or women, by all means complain about male bashing, but please don't try and suggest that the media and society in general no longer do this women, it's just in a different way and it really doesn't help your 'cause'!

[dichotomy]

There are some men out there who never change nappies (diapers), who do bugger off all weekend and leave the mother alone to be with the kids. Some men don't realise that mothers need time out too.

All true. My rant is about the current tone that suggest it is most men who fall into the category. The stupid, lazy, uncaring and bumbling buffoon make up the majority of depictions of the male of the species. There are bad fathers and just as many bad mothers out there. Media molds opinion and unfortunately male bashing is riding a crest of popularity and advertisers, news outlets and entertainment offerings are on the bandwagon because a large demographic eats it up.

 

Having read the article I just didn't see it as men bashing at all. It wan't celebratory of fathers on fathers' day but then when else would it get as much attention? I also did not think that this particular article was suggesting that 'most' men were like this, just that many still are - which is true.

 

I think the reason this is a difficult topic and being bashed around an awful lot in general is because the level of expectations on the role of a man as father are changing and becoming higher, not so much that they are being bashed and mocked. My husband is a good dad, he is involved with his children, he changed nappies, did baths, takes them out occasionally so I can have a break etc. this is all good stuff, but to listen to his parent's and other people you'd think he was some sort of amazing and 'wonderful' father purely for doing what he and I believe are just basic obligations and expectations as a parent. No one has ever said 'oh Shona you're such an amazing mum for changing your daughter's nappy and breastfeeding her every other hour day and night." It is just expected of me - it is seen as my role as a mother to do that, and if I were to complain that I was tired or finding it difficult or perhaps ask my husband to 'please' do a little bit more when he comes home from work it is implied by society, the media, extended family, and occasionally even he and myself that I may not be coping as a mother and not doing my job very well. But on the days that he *does* take over the role as parent and do the majority of nappies and feeding and toddler entertaining, he is and has been described as *doing above and beyond* what he is expected to do - because he is 'such a good father'. Hell he was even told that he was a wonderful role model and dad for taking his children to a toddler group - the other mums there couldn't believe that a dad would do that!

 

I realise that this is not how everyone sees parenting and gender roles but the above is not exclusive to myself, this is common for the majority of mothers I know. It may not be their own or their husband's opinions but it is a very common view held by the older generation and the health professionals that mothers come into regular contact with. I realise that just because other people believe that my husband is this amazing father figure purely for doing the basics does not mean that he himself does or excuse male bashing - but it's a very likely reason why women find relief in such things and consequently why the media clicks onto it.

 

On a slight aside, the unbalance in how society and the media portray or view the difference in parent-gender roles is clear when it comes to abuse. It is quite accepted that 'men' can abuse their wives and children, but the idea that women do the same is still not accepted as much. this is obviously terribly sexist towards men, but it is equally sexist towards women. There was a case last year of a couple neglecting and abusing their son until he died. The media attention and vehemence focused significantly more on the mother than the man involved, people were much more disturbed and disgusted that a mother could do that to her child than a father and she was ripped apart in the media before the trial even happened. I think it was a very complex case and not as simple as it seemed but it was very clear that the mother was viewed as 'evil' whereas the focus on the father was much less despite him being equally if not more a part of the abuse.

[dichotomy]

I've heard again and again how stay at home moms work as hard or harder than the full time working parent. Bullshit. Some five years ago my wife had surgery. She was temporarily debilitated. We had no parents or similar support system to help and I took probably about three weeks of leave to be a full time caretaker parent as well as to take care of my wife. All the cooking, cleaning, dishwashing, diaper changing, nurturing, parenting, and dealing with my wife's illness was actually very easy compared to my job. No, not washing the dishes while your wife watches TV after having been out working ten or twelve hours is not being a deadbeat.

 

 

Right on. I once was in almost the same situation. For about six months my wife worked full-time while I stayed home and did all the home-front stuff including caring for our toddler. She was the one who'd come home and collapse on the couch. After that period in our lives, I often told her how I'd gladly trade the salt mine for the home front in a heartbeat. My job was not physical; it was mentally exhausting. Fortunately, my honey is a keeper (42 years) and we both respect what we each bring to our relationship.

 

It's not bullshit. Honestly, it's not a competition. You work hard, SAHM's work hard. Your job is tiring, my job is tiring. It's not a competition. You're not better than your wives because you found looking after her, the house and the children for a few weeks/months 'easier' than working. Your experiences as a SAHD may have been easy but that doesn't mean that another person's SAHM experiences may not be significantly harder than your job. Different horses for different courses and all that....

 

I started out reading this thread thinking I was going to empathise and nod along to the men who are sick of men bashing and sexism and yet I find men being sexist and stereotyping because they suffer sexism and dislike stereotyping and generalisation.

[Yrth]

I've heard again and again how stay at home moms work as hard or harder than the full time working parent. Bullshit. Some five years ago my wife had surgery. She was temporarily debilitated. We had no parents or similar support system to help and I took probably about three weeks of leave to be a full time caretaker parent as well as to take care of my wife. All the cooking, cleaning, dishwashing, diaper changing, nurturing, parenting, and dealing with my wife's illness was actually very easy compared to my job. No, not washing the dishes while your wife watches TV after having been out working ten or twelve hours is not being a deadbeat.

 

 

Right on. I once was in almost the same situation. For about six months my wife worked full-time while I stayed home and did all the home-front stuff including caring for our toddler. She was the one who'd come home and collapse on the couch. After that period in our lives, I often told her how I'd gladly trade the salt mine for the home front in a heartbeat. My job was not physical; it was mentally exhausting. Fortunately, my honey is a keeper (42 years) and we both respect what we each bring to our relationship.

 

It's not bullshit. Honestly, it's not a competition. You work hard, SAHM's work hard. Your job is tiring, my job is tiring. It's not a competition. You're not better than your wives because you found looking after her, the house and the children for a few months 'easier' than working. Your experiences as a SAHD may have been easy but that doesn't mean that another person's SAHM experiences may not be significantly harder than your job. Different horses for different courses and all that....

 

I started out reading this thread thinking I was going to empathise and nod along to the men who are sick of men bashing and sexism and yet I find men being sexist and stereotyping because they suffer sexism and dislike stereotyping and generalisation.

 

This thread has left a nasty taste in my mouth.

That's true. You can't accurately compare jobs and stay-at-home parenting because it's overbroad. There are easy jobs and difficult homes, etc.

 

My mom was a SAHM & also worked part / full time as a visiting nurse. I'd never do that. But she never felt as though she -had- to, she really loved (loves) her life. But some women take on more than they can handle and then transpose their discontent into some larger societal men vs. women phenomenon. Still others stay at home and really don't do shit. It's not like there's a manager checking up on you, and we are all subject to Parkinson's Law, so it's hard to judge.

 

It's all busted imo. But (white) (american) men have become the scapegoat, no question.