Daniel, a question for you.

[Fweethawt]

That doesn't explain anything. What did he do, what did you see, what happened precisely. That's my question.

 

Oh, I see. You can't tell us, because then we'd go to you - instead of to Christ... right?

That's it, Silent One. It's up to you to let the theology tie your mind into knots so that it becomes understandable to you. No person could possibly explain it to you.

 

Ahhh! This just keeps gettin' better'n better.

[daniel_1012]

Once again, you've proven my point even further. (you're getting really good at that.)

 

ExChristians aren't on the look-out for getting something for nothing. Whereas, well... You can see where this is going.

 

We're not talking about getting something from nothing. We're talking about illegitimate bills not negating the value of legitimate bills whether you choose to acknowldge them or not. The false does not negate truth, no matter how much error exists around it. That is the core of the analogy. Replace $20 bills with something else that can be counterfitted, and it remains the same. Say, papers written by an author. Even if many of them are forged... that does not negate the fact that the author still exists.

 

 

Tell that to the judge. 

 

Tell a judge that the real $20 dollar bills still have value, despite the fake ones surrounding them? He would agree... Why wouldn't he? You think a judge would say that because of the fakes, $20 bills don't exist of hold no value...?

[daniel_1012]

That doesn't explain anything. What did he do, what did you see, what happened precisely. That's my question.

 

Oh, I see. You can't tell us, because then we'd go to you - instead of to Christ... right?

100076[/snapback]

 

I told you... He revealed the power of the cross to me, and He even went so far as to back it up with the power of answer prayer, in result of *obedience*.

 

Amen, it is as I said. If I could reveal it to you, you would not have to go to Christ. So then, go to Christ... in truth, and prove me wrong. It is impossible to do that though, and come back wanting.

[Fweethawt]

We're not talking about getting something from nothing.  We're talking about illegitimate bills not negating the value of legitimate bills whether you choose to acknowldge them or not.  That is the core of the analogy.  Replace $20 bills with something else that can be counterfitted, and it remains the same.  Say, papers written by an author.  Even if many of them are forged... that does not negate the fact that the author still exists.

No, I guess that wouldn't negate the existence of the author. But if the author is still around (I.e. not dead), I would expect him to expose the forgeries, and those who profit from them.

 

Tell a judge that the real $20 dollar bills still have value, despite the fake ones surrounding them?  He would agree... Why wouldn't he?  You think a judge would say that because of the fakes, $20 bills don't exist of hold no value...?

No, but he would still throw your ass in the slammer for taking all of the bills especially if he knew that you knew that there were counterfeits mixed in. (which is pretty much what you claimed that you would do in one of your previous posts)

 

I myself, wouldn't want to be caught with any of them.

 

 

The false does not negate truth, no matter how much error exists around it.

I think you've just written your first truth since you've been here. Now just take that, and run with it! Embrace it! Don't ever let it go!

[The Silent One]

I told you... He revealed the power of the cross to me, and He even went so far as to back it up with the power of answer prayer, in result of *obedience*.

 

Amen, it is as I said.  If I could reveal it to you, you would not have to go to Christ.  So then, go to Christ... in truth, and prove me wrong.  It is impossible to do that though, and come back wanting.

100081[/snapback]

 

Danny, your experience is not proof to anyone except yourself, and never will be because you refuse to answer with anything more than vagueness and half-statements.

 

Of course, I was waiting for the sales pitch.

 

No thank you. The Goddess already made herself known to me, I was just curious as to your experience. Heck, the Goddess doesn't even mind me sharing how she touched my heart.

 

Frankly I think everything you said was blown out of proportion by you to make it seem 'miraculous.' If I'm wrong, I'm sure you can prove it. Unless of course, God doesn't want you doing that either.

 

For now however, I'm going to consider you nothing more than a:

 

[daniel_1012]

Danny, your experience is not proof to anyone except yourself, and never will be because you refuse to answer with anything more than vagueness and half-statements.

 

Of course, I was waiting for the sales pitch.

 

No thank you. The Goddess already made herself known to me, I was just curious as to your experience. Heck, the Goddess doesn't even mind me sharing how she touched my heart.

 

Frankly I think everything you said was blown out of proportion by you to make it seem 'miraculous.' If I'm wrong, I'm sure you can prove it. Unless of course, God doesn't want you doing that either.

 

For now however, I'm going to consider you nothing more than a:

 

100084[/snapback]

 

Hey, you can consider me a liar for Christ, but I am rather content in the revelation God has given me in answer to prayer . I've told you know lie, only experience and answered prayer. Call me what you will.

[daniel_1012]

Danny, your experience is not proof to anyone except yourself, and never will be because you refuse to answer with anything more than vagueness and half-statements.

 

Of course, I was waiting for the sales pitch.

 

No thank you. The Goddess already made herself known to me, I was just curious as to your experience. Heck, the Goddess doesn't even mind me sharing how she touched my heart.

 

Frankly I think everything you said was blown out of proportion by you to make it seem 'miraculous.' If I'm wrong, I'm sure you can prove it. Unless of course, God doesn't want you doing that either.

 

For now however, I'm going to consider you nothing more than a:

 

100084[/snapback]

 

BTW... why do you ask and not recieve? Why do you ask, and call me a liar? Why have you let your heart grow so hard?

[LadyFeline]

Look at that, in His sovreignty, God used you.  He used you and you didn't even know it! It is better for those that choose to have Him use them though.

 

You know, Damniel, the folks in the law enforcement profession have a term for "using" a person without their consent.

 

Yeah. It's called "rape".

 

You're a disgusting freak.

[LadyFeline]

BTW... why do you ask and not recieve?  Why do you ask, and call me a liar?  Why have you let your heart grow so hard?

 

His heart isn't hard. I know the man personally - he's quite possibly the kindest, most generous individual I've ever met.

 

He called you a liar, because you're lying. You're making announcements, then stammering and stumbling for something to back them up with, or backing them up with nothing at all.

 

And he did not "recieve" because you'd given nothing to him. He asked you a question, and you dodged it - you provided no answer, only more dogma and more prostyletizing. You gave him nothing to recieve.

[daniel_1012]

His heart isn't hard. I know the man personally - he's quite possibly the kindest, most generous individual I've ever met.

 

He called you a liar, because you're lying. You're making announcements, then stammering and stumbling for something to back them up with, or backing them up with nothing at all.

 

And he did not "recieve" because you'd given nothing to him. He asked you a question, and you dodged it - you provided no answer, only more dogma and more prostyletizing. You gave him nothing to recieve.

100091[/snapback]

 

Oh, I have given, but it was not wanted. It is the same reason all of you have not found God. You can't find God for the same reason a theif cannot find a police officer.

[daniel_1012]

You mean, if I find god that I too can become a heartless bastard?

100095[/snapback]

 

With that, I am done in this thread. I've given plenty of proof, but you do not believe so there is nothing more to say.

[daniel_1012]

Wow Danny, funny, I cried uncontollably wanting for God to help me keep faith amd begged him but, no answer.  So if your version of god is true, he plays favorites and is the biggest prick in the whole universe.  If that is the case, you have no agenda here but to gloat over your salvation.  Why don't you just go the hell away?  Apperently our tears and heartbreak did nothing to move your god.

100092[/snapback]

 

Actually, I didn't see this post was part of this thread so I'll reply to it first.

 

If say, I were somehow able to fall away at this point with the understanding I have now, the feelings I have now, the experiences I have now, know the people's hearts that I know now, and I somehow lost my faith... I would not have the animosity so many of the ex-Christians on this board have towards Christianity (including yourself). I would have compassion, and I would like to only see their (Christians) faith strengthened, because the stronger their faith is... I know the better a person they would become. I would, myself, be a kind and very gentle person if I fell away from Christianity. I would be humbled by my deception, and I would love Christians even if I thought they were totally in error. I would know that they were wrong, and I would be at peace not having to bother them. There really is nothing I am saving them from, because I know any Christian that is convinced of Christianity is truly happy. Knowing my heart when I was a "Christian," I wouldn't want to destroy their faith, nor would I join a group of ex-Christians to help myself, if I had true understanding that Christ was not real. But you see, people come here for support... just as Christians go to other Christians for support. Christians have doubts too, but they confide in God and they love the bretheren. You love your bretheren too, but what is your goal?

 

I would have compassion for Christians, and in fact... I would not even try to convince them otherwise. If I were somehow able to fall away, I would not be shocked, befuttled, and angered when a Christian told me they thought I was going to hell... I would love them more, knowing that I had once been there. I would truly understand, but you see... so few people on this board exemplify this because, like many, they were false Christians. They never found love in God, at least not the love I have found in Him... if they would have, then they would see just as I see and would love Christians even when they outright told them they were going to hell without Christ. But so many here, just want to belittle and insult. So many here just want to shut down, and show the Bible's contridiction. They don't see how Christianity can make a person better *because they themselves, were never a Christian, and therefore God never made them better.* because they themselves were never Christians, they have not experienced the love I have experienced, the faith, or the compassion for others I have or they would promote Christianity, or at the very least... not be shocked by it. They would understand it -- A man of understanding is of a calm spirit.

 

Another thing... when I cried tears before the Lord... it is because I believed. So many others have cried tears before the Lord, because they did not believe... and this I believe, is key.

 

I have not made up my experiences, and He is real, and He is to be known. I know that God loves the world, because I know that Christ died for us. For what other reason would such a thing be done?

[Vigile]

Really.... So, because of counterfit bills in a stack of bills in which there are many legit dollar bills... the entire stack is worthless because of the fakes?  Wow, if you or I ever encounter such an event in real life, I am going to be a very wealthy man (depending on how big the stack is and how many legit bills are there of course) .

 

Even if there is only 1 single, $20 bill in a stack of fakes... the legit bill still is there, it still has value, and it is still real despite the fakes the surround it.  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but it is the honor of kings to search out a matter.

100071[/snapback]

 

Daniel, I'm going to let god use me to help you just like he used Silent One. Why don't you consider going to school? You are still young from what I can gather.

[daniel_1012]

Daniel, I'm going to let god use me to help you just like he used Silent One.  Why don't you consider going to school?  You are still young from what I can gather.

100099[/snapback]

 

Why do you assume I haven't been to school? Because learned man could not possibly be a Christian? Knowledge of the truth will only bring me closer to God, not further away.

[Vigile]

Why do you assume I haven't been to school?  Because learned man could not possibly be a Christian?  Knowledge of the truth will only bring me closer to God, not further away.

100102[/snapback]

 

Absolutely not. I know many Christians who have higher education under their belts. I know you didn't go to school (university level) because you are functionally illiterate.

 

Of course you will take this as a slam and not as constructive criticism.

[crazy-tiger]

If say, I were somehow able to fall away at this point with the understanding I have now, the feelings I have now, the experiences I have now, know the people's hearts that I know now, and I somehow lost my faith... I would not have the animosity so many of the ex-Christians on this board have towards Christianity (including yourself).  I would have compassion, and I would like to only see their (Christians) faith strengthened, because the stronger their faith is... I know the better a person they would become.

Daniel... you're saying that you'd be happy to see them be decieved and would like them to become even more decieved...

I would, myself, be a kind and very gentle person if I fell away from Christianity.  I would be humbled by my deception, and I would love Christians even if I thought they were totally in error.  I would know that they were wrong, and I would be at peace not having to bother them.  There really is nothing I am saving them from, because I know any Christian that is convinced of Christianity is truly happy.

That is sick... how can anyone be truely happy believeing a LIE? How can you have any kind of compassion and not want to save them from wasting their life on a lie?

Knowing my heart when I was a "Christian," I wouldn't want to destroy their faith, nor would I join a group of ex-Christians to help myself, if I had true understanding that Christ was not real.  But you see, people come here for support... just as Christians go to other Christians for support.  Christians have doubts too, but they confide in God and they love the bretheren.  You love your bretheren too, but what is your goal?

You have no idea just how hard it is to live as an EX-Christian... We are constantly under attack, described as evil, immoral, untrustworthy, decieved, and forced to hide our beliefs amongst the general public.

We come here for support to help us cope with what we suffer on a daily basis.

 

Hell, we come here to be US, to let down the mask that we are forced to hide behind...

I would have compassion for Christians, and in fact... I would not even try to convince them otherwise.  If I were somehow able to fall away, I would not be shocked, befuttled, and angered when a Christian told me they thought I was going to hell... I would love them more, knowing that I had once been there.  I would truly understand, but you see... so few people on this board exemplify this because, like many, they were false Christians.

First, try showing them that love when they tell you that you were a false christian... second, try showing that love when they inform you that you are a evil person and are going to hell for the thousandth time...

They never found love in God, at least not the love I have found in Him... if they would have, then they would see just as I see and would love Christians even when they outright told them they were going to hell without Christ.  But so many here, just want to belittle and insult.  So many here just want to shut down, and show the Bible's contridiction.  They don't see how Christianity can make a person better *because they themselves, were never a Christian, and therefore God never made them better.*  because they themselves were never Christians, they have not experienced the love I have experienced, the faith, or the compassion for others I have or they would promote Christianity, or at the very least... not be shocked by it.  They would understand it -- A man of understanding is of a calm spirit.

Erm... if you "fell away" then you wouldn't have been a "True Christian" either, so you wouldn't have experienced the love, faith or compassion either.

 

The moment you used the "False Christian" line, you showed that you understand NOTHING about EX-Christians. Nothing you just said means a damn thing and was a total waste of time...

Another thing... when I cried tears before the Lord... it is because I believed.  So many others have cried tears before the Lord, because they did not believe... and this I believe, is key.

Yep... the same old "you never believed" line...

 

We've heard this all too many times and it just annoys us when someone uses it. There's a limit to how many times you can be annoyed by something before you get angry at the person using it.

That, and it belittles and insults the life of the person you use it on.

 

Small wonder that some here go on the attack when you're daft enough to use it...

I have not made up my experiences, and He is real, and He is to be known.  I know that God loves the world, because I know that Christ died for us.  For what other reason would such a thing be done?

100098[/snapback]

Made up story to control the gullible masses maybe?

[Amethyst]

Well, I went to church that next day expecting... but, nothing happened. He didn't give me one. I went to church the next week expecting... but he didn't give me one. A third time I went, and nothing... but I still expected, and Sunday morning on the forth week during church... my pastor was speaking up front and there was a box full of something at the foot of the stand in the front of the church where he was talking. He was talking about witnessing, and what a great witnessing tool this could be. What he was talking about, were gospel of John tracts. Low and behold, John was sitting directly in front of me that day... and who turned around to give me a gospel of john tract? Non other than the John God told me would give me one.

 

You never mentioned what happened to the lady. Did she did, just like my mother did, evne though so many prayed for her and my mother was extremely religious? Having been "saved" apparently didn't make a difference to the disease. You see, unlike humans, cancer doesn't discriminate between followers of a cult over non-followers.

[Amethyst]

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved, and Christ died for you.  It is true.

 

Prove it.

[Amethyst]

He showed Himself to me. He revealed the power of the cross to me.

 

No, he didn't. You had an emotional experience that proves nothing. How do you know that it wasn't Allah? Or Buddha? Or Zeus? Or any other deities? The only reason you believe it was Jesus was because you live in the US and Christianity is the predominant cult in our society. You have been brainwashed to believe that, nothing more.

[Vulgaris Prime]

BTW... why do you ask and not recieve?  Why do you ask, and call me a liar?  Why have you let your heart grow so hard?

100087[/snapback]

 

For your sole information, you filthy lying fuck, TSO is about the nicest guy in the world. He's not a duplicitous lying scheming captious filthbag like you. You're the shit I scrape off my shoes.

 

Kindly begone, Danny, as you've aroused my ire. Any more of your lying lies and I just might reach through my cable modem and slap the shit out of you.

[All Gods Fail]

Danny's conversion story sounds almost exactly like mine - a very emotional feeling of relief, peace and forgiveness from feelings of extreme guilt. That lasted for about 6 months until I started getting involved with a fundamentalist sect.

 

Then I started studying the scriptures - and there my troubles began...

 

Danny, you are not a unique snowflake. If what you are saying is the truth, I actually feel a little sorry for you now. I went down that road and it ended very badly (in the short term - long term it was good). Maybe things will be different for you, tho.

 

Emotions can really fuck with your head. Try not to let your heart cloud your mind - that's how they got me.

 

Good luck, dude. You're gonna need it.

[bob]

I, like many of you, was once a false convert.

Not much need to read any further, but I did.

Could you please give a definition for the term "false convert"? How does someone convert falsely? Do they pretend to convert, but know in their own mind that they are not really converting, or are they truly desiring to convert, but, for some *@#&-up reason, the conversion didn't take? Please explain.

[daniel_1012]

You never mentioned what happened to the lady.  Did she did, just like my mother did, evne though so many prayed for her and my mother was extremely religious?  Having been "saved" apparently didn't make a difference to the disease.  You see, unlike humans, cancer doesn't discriminate between followers of a cult over non-followers.

100108[/snapback]

 

The point of witnessing, and my call to witness was not that she would be saved from cancer... Actually... when I prayed that she would live past her cancer, it was only in addition to her receiving Christ. it was so that when she would know God before she died. People dying does not surprise me, and when I first knew God... I was not under the impression that I would live forever on earth. I knew that it was appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment.

[The Silent One]

BTW... why do you ask and not recieve?  Why do you ask, and call me a liar?  Why have you let your heart grow so hard?

100087[/snapback]

 

My heart is hard? Because I don't want to believe you when you refuse to answer simple questions?

 

Sir, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You gave nothing for me to receive. You provided NO proof. Your experience, which none of us have any way of verifying as true, is not proof, you liar.

 

You've provided no proof. NONE. Saying that you have, once again shows you to be a:

 

[daniel_1012]

For your sole information, you filthy lying fuck, TSO is about the nicest guy in the world.  He's not a duplicitous lying scheming captious filthbag like you.  You're the shit I scrape off my shoes.

 

Kindly begone, Danny, as you've aroused my ire.  Any more of your lying lies and I just might reach through my cable modem and slap the shit out of you.

100122[/snapback]

 

 

 

I haven't lied about anything, and the fact that a person such as yourself... who would call me and address me as you just did, doesn't exactly build his case.