daniel_1012 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 My heart is hard? Because I don't want to believe you when you refuse to answer simple questions? Sir, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You gave nothing for me to receive. You provided NO proof. Your experience, which none of us have any way of verifying as true, is not proof, you liar. You've provided no proof. NONE. Saying that you have, once again shows you to be a: 100187[/snapback] Not so. It simply shows you don't believe. Whether I provide you anything tangible or not, it is not your belief that makes it the truth... it is the fact that it is true. Just like a $20 bills doesn't need your belief to be real, neither would anything else that was true. Physical laws were laws, before we believed them or knew them. Calling me a liar, is what is based on nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 I haven't lied about anything, and the fact that a person such as yourself... who would call me and address me as you just did, doesn't exactly build his case. 100188[/snapback] Doesn't exactly hurt his case either. You did lie, you said you provided proof. Proof is solid and unarguable. Show us where you provided PROOF Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Not so. It simply shows you don't believe. Whether I provide you anything tangible or not, it is not your belief that makes it the truth... it is the fact that it is true. Just like a $20 bills doesn't need your belief to be real, neither would anything else that was true. Physical laws were laws, before we believed them or knew them. Calling me a liar, is what is based on nothing. 100189[/snapback] Bullshit. It's not a fact unless it's proven, and you're refusing to prove it. It's not fact, therefore once again: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_1012 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Bullshit. It's not a fact unless it's proven, and you're refusing to prove it. It's not fact, therefore once again: 100193[/snapback] So the laws of thermal dynamics, by this statement, were not true until we believed them. Also, I'm curious as to what proof it would take in order for you to accept what I have told you. I've given you proof, but you don't believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 So the laws of thermal dynamics, by this statement, were not true until we believed them. Also, I'm curious as to what proof it would take in order for you to accept what I have told you. I've given you proof, but you don't believe. 100196[/snapback] For all intents and purposes the laws of thermal dynamics have been proven, as far as a principal can be. It's not about 'true when believed' stop saying that, no one here has said that at all, except for you. What proof? Any. You haven't given, any proof. You keep saying you have, but you refuse to show us where. Personal experience is NOT proof. Get it through your head. You seem to have trouble understanding English, lets try this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 So the laws of thermal dynamics, by this statement, were not true until we believed them. 100196[/snapback] You're right, I agree with you; the LoTD exists independent of belief or proof. Also, I'm curious as to what proof it would take in order for you to accept what I have told you. I've given you proof, but you don't believe. 100196[/snapback] You see the difference here is that you are making an extraordinary claim that demands an extraordinary amount of evidence. You relaying your thoughts, your fears, your own experience are far removed from the level of proof we would need. Physicists who discovered the LoTD provided extraordinary proof to back up their findings. Their findings as such are now well known and accepted in the scientific community because they have been observed and verified independently and consistantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_1012 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Mark 16 100199[/snapback] Jesus isn't saying men would live forever on earth. So, if this is interpretted that way, it's of course not right. If every single Christian never died from sickness of some kind... whether it be age or a virus or whatever... Jesus taught that we would die. Christians have been dying ever since God has been making them. Daniel 3:15-18 15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands? 16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. 17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. 18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were men of faith. They knew that even the men that truly worshipped God could be brought to death. There is no foundational teaching of Christianity that says Christians will never die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_1012 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 You're right, I agree with you; the LoTD exists independent of belief or proof. You see the difference here is that you are making an extraordinary claim that demands an extraordinary amount of evidence. You relaying your thoughts, your fears, your own experience are far removed from the level of proof we would need. Physicists who discovered the LoTD provided extraordinary proof to back up their findings. Their findings as such are now well known and accepted in the scientific community because they have been observed and verified independently and consistantly. 100203[/snapback] Well, I'm done with defending the legitimacy of what I say. If you don't believe it, then it is your loss... but I've given you true events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I, like many of you, was once a false convert.Not much need to read any further, but I did. Could you please give a definition for the term "false convert"? How does someone convert falsely? Do they pretend to convert, but know in their own mind that they are not really converting, or are they truly desiring to convert, but, for some *@#&-up reason, the conversion didn't take? Please explain. 100159[/snapback] Ditto. Please answer these questions. I have asked similar ones in a another threaed very recently. If you have answered already, please refer us to your post. I am not about to go reading the entire forum for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 PROVE THEY ARE TRUE EVENTS. PROVE IT OR SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 No, he didn't. You had an emotional experience that proves nothing. How do you know that it wasn't Allah? Or Buddha? Or Zeus? Or any other deities? The only reason you believe it was Jesus was because you live in the US and Christianity is the predominant cult in our society. You have been brainwashed to believe that, nothing more. 100110[/snapback] maybe it was SATAN playing with his head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgaris Prime Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Well, I'm done with defending the legitimacy of what I say. If you don't believe it, then it is your loss... but I've given you true events. You haven't proven it, Danny boy. You have to prove that your bullshit isn't bullshit. Until then: Roughly, the text in that image says, "Liar for the son of man!!" (NOTE: Since Japanese isn't something I excel at, if this is wrong, someone point it out and show me how to fix it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 maybe it was SATAN playing with his head LOL. Or the Pagan Goddess, or Zoraster, or Mithrais, or Allah, or any number of deities that are claimed to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bdp Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The point of witnessing, and my call to witness was not that she would be saved from cancer... Actually... when I prayed that she would live past her cancer, it was only in addition to her receiving Christ. it was so that when she would know God before she died. People dying does not surprise me, and when I first knew God... I was not under the impression that I would live forever on earth. I knew that it was appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. 100186[/snapback] ...so she died, just like my dad did when I, my brother, my sister, my mother, the rest of my family, the campus fellowship I was attending, my church, and tons of friends, were all praying for him. I know a fake $20 and know enough to throw it away. bdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The point of witnessing, and my call to witness was not that she would be saved from cancer... Actually... when I prayed that she would live past her cancer, it was only in addition to her receiving Christ. it was so that when she would know God before she died. Then you are truly a selfish bastard. All you wanted was the recognition for bringing her to Christ, not her being cured. Can't you see that? Are you really so brainwashed you can't see that? Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 He showed Himself to me. He revealed the power of the cross to me. "The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing, but to those that are being saved it is the glory of God." #1, He made the cross the glory of God to me. Confirmed it's truth to me... and let me explain something to you. Jesus Christ said that if you have His commandments and keep them... you are the one that loves Him, and He would reveal HIMSELF to YOU. If then, I was able to reveal what He revealed to me, in a tangible provable way you may require... then going to Christ is nullified. You don't have to go to Him, because you could just go to me. 100074[/snapback] Daniel, there is a problem you can't see here. I, as much as the Silent One, can't understand what exactly happened to you while you were in your car. You speak about the cross. Did you actually see a cross before your eyes while you were driving? Did you feel some kind of sensation in your chest, or in your head? Can you please explain with precision what happened to you that "confirmed its truth to you"? Did your senses register something miraculous, or what? I'm not rejecting anything, I simply don't get it, because your words are vague. Before telling me that I say such things because I "don't want" your god inside me, could you please remember that jesus decided to show Thomas his wounds and he let him touch the wounds just so that Thomas could be convinced of his identity? Before judging us, could you try to explain what happened to you in terms of sensations and happenings? Thank you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well you see...he called it the mystery of the cross for a reason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well you see...he called it the mystery of the cross for a reason.... 100628[/snapback] So he saw a mystery? Now I'm curious, what IS exactly the shape and color of a mystery? I want him to answer me as he would answer someone that has lived all of her life in a little tribal community, and doesn't understand the meaning of abstract concepts like mystery or glory and so on. I don't want him to simply assume that I share his own point of view about what glory is and what a mystery is: I want him to explain what happened to him with proper words about sensations and experiences. And I'm waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Now I'm curious, what IS exactly the shape and color of a mystery? 42. Or purple triangle, take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 No it isn't. 100047[/snapback] Why would we believe it from the mouth of some guy who spends most of his time attacking us anyway, even if it wasn't utter drivel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 You mean, if I find god that I too can become a heartless bastard? 100095[/snapback] Apparently. True Christians are the best at being heartless bastards, after all--they think they're Righteous and Godly, so any cruelty they commit against another must be Deserved--or For Our Own Good. Anyway, his implication that we couldn't find God because we were all sinful and unworthy is yet another example of that blind, compassionless arrogance. Jesus (as in the human Jewish reformer who got himself killed for his beliefs) was a very compassionate and tolerant person, even to nonbelievers. To tell you the truth, I still find myself getting offended when some asshole like this one thinks that he can be compassionless and arrogant, yet somehow still Christ-like. How does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Prove it. 100109[/snapback] *holds up her life experiences* I've got your DISproof right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider2 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Actually, I didn't see this post was part of this thread so I'll reply to it first. If say, I were somehow able to fall away at this point with the understanding I have now, the feelings I have now, the experiences I have now, know the people's hearts that I know now, and I somehow lost my faith... I would not have the animosity so many of the ex-Christians on this board have towards Christianity (including yourself). I would have compassion, and I would like to only see their (Christians) faith strengthened, because the stronger their faith is... I know the better a person they would become. I would, myself, be a kind and very gentle person if I fell away from Christianity. Another thing... when I cried tears before the Lord... it is because I believed. So many others have cried tears before the Lord, because they did not believe... and this I believe, is key. 100098[/snapback] There sure are a lot of assumptions coming out of that post. First, you assume that if you left Christianity you would be a gentle person. How can you assume this when you have not and will not leave Christianity? Then you assume that we are bitter and angry people. I know it will be difficult for you to understand, but that is the far from true. Of course, to understand us would involve time and no rehashing of the "You were never a true christian" line, but we al know that you are here soldify your theory about us and not have a dialogue. Also you assume that people here did not cry out to the Lord in belief. Why would someone cry out for help from something they did not believe in? If you really got to know people here you would find out that your assumption and your book are incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider2 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Well, I'm done with defending the legitimacy of what I say. If you don't believe it, then it is your loss... but I've given you true events. 100208[/snapback] If you read the ex-testimonies you would see that we have given you true events why we deconverted. If you don't believe... Well, then it is your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 42. Wow! So he saw The Mystery? So he keeps in his head the fundamental question about life, the universe and everything? Let's crack his skull open and search inside his neurons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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