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No More Jesus For Me


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Hi, i want to tell my story.

 

I'm a very curious person, and.. i love God. Really, i do. Some people call it "universe", but i believe it is God, and he's great - as creator, artist etc. I live in christian part of the world (i know there many different people here in Europe, but the civilization itself is christian - or why nobody is shocked by christian symbols - like dead body hanged on a cross?). I decided to become closer to God, (and since i live in christian world - the only way i knew was church, what christians call bible ets). I was very enthusiastic at first, i started visiting chirch, reading etc. And i was curious.. too curious for christianity. Very soon i noticed that something is wrong.. very wrong.

 

I found out, that all disgusting, evil, bad things are.. supported by christians with enthusiasm. They made an idol - a dead body of a cruelly killed man, main "god" in their pantheon. That poor dead guy is surrounded by.. surprise! more corpses. And this disgusting cemetery is wrapped in a big fat lie - they say their origin is judaism. Curious me decided to find out is - it true? And yet another surprise - no it is not, there is nothing in common. Nothing, you can check yourself, first of all - jews don't have idols. And even more surprises - christians lie that what they call Old Testament is.. jewish Tanach. Short investigation - and another surprise - no it is not, christians made some .."improvements" there. They put some lies not only there, but in other historical books and sources, Flavius Josephus for example.

 

So many lies that lead to.. what? What good things christians did in worlds history? Nothing, except pieces of art, music and architecture - but all of those dedicated to lies and death, and it makes it disgusting to me.

 

 

But much worse than that "good" are countless crimes against humanity committed by christians (in the name of hanged corpse, it's crazy, really). They killed, tortured and robbed millions of people. They destroyed civilizations, cultures, and history itself was rewritten many times to cover their awful crimes. And that christian civilization leaded to most awful - two world wars.

 

And what we have now?

 

 

Christianity is still treated like "religion", not a criminal organization. The disgusting pictures of tortures and death are ..in museums, like pieces of art. Crimes of christianity are called ..history. And they continue to lie, steal and even kill.

 

As i mentioned before - i love God. I do, really. And it's very sad for me, the fact that God is wrongly associated with those people.

 

 

They don't have anything in common - God is a creator of all beautiful things and christians are thieves and murderers. And i decided that what i really should do to be closer to God - it's to tell other people what christianity really is.

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This doesn't sound like an extimony. It sounds like proselytizing. Suzy is here to tell us that she has the secret of True Christianity.

 

And it's very sad for me, the fact that God is wrongly associated with those people.

 

By those people, you mean christians.

And i decided that what i really should do to be closer to God - it's to tell other people what christianity really is.

 

We know. We've heard it a million times. It's not a religion, it's a relaaaaaaytionship.

 

 

 

mods: Perhaps this is better suited for the Lion's Den or maybe the Ex-Christian Spirituality section. ????

 

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edited: See Post #6

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This doesn't sound like an extimony. It sounds like proselytizing. Suzy is here to tell us that she has the secret of True Christianity.

:twitch:

 

Is my english that bad? For me christianity looks like a crime wrapped in a lie, it sounds like proselytizing?

 

I do believe in God, but it doesn't have anything in common with Jesus (why should it? :shrug:, it's only common for christians to see thing this way ).

 

"God" it's just the way i call the world itself (in complex, including the logic of all things, laws, physics etc). For example - some people make wishes on stars, and i don't make a wish - i ask.

 

 

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Hi, i want to tell my story.

 

I'm a very curious person, and.. i love God. And i decided that what i really should do to be closer to God - it's to tell other people what christianity really is.

 

Hi Susie. Welcome to EX-c. Good to have you. I am looking forward to you telling us what christianity is all about. I would also love to hear about the god you believe in, cause I am always 'open' to believing again, if it makes sense to me!! :grin:

 

Thanks! looking forward to hearing more from you!

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Hi!

Hi, i want to tell my story.

 

I'm a very curious person, and.. i love God. And i decided that what i really should do to be closer to God - it's to tell other people what christianity really is.

 

Hi Susie. Welcome to EX-c. good to have you. I am looking forward to you telling us what christianity is all about. I would also love to hear about the god you believe in, cause I am always 'open' to believing again!!:grin: Thanks! looking forward to hearing more from you!

 

Hi! Actually the "God" i believe in is life itself (in complex). I'm curious and i explore the world around me and i see some logic there (that's why i call it "God"). I find explanations to some things, and some other are not so easy - for example i have a cat, he's a predator etc, but.. he's funny. Just funny with his cute ears, tail and fur. And there is just no functional reason for it (or may be i just don't understand it) - so i think there is somebody who made him this funny way. Just for one reason - to smile when looking at him :HaHa:

 

Of course i can be wrong :scratch:

 

And christianity has nothing to do with this - christians used to kill (burn, torture) animals, and cats too. And killing or making suffer a living being (not for food, hunt etc) doesn't look natural for me, it goes against the logic of life.

 

 

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As i mentioned before - i love God. I do, really. And it's very sad for me, the fact that God is wrongly associated with those people.

 

Those people = christians.

 

Sorry I misinterpreted your comments. I just read something very similar to your post somewhere else. After a lot of toying around, the poster concluded with the zinger that she was the Really True Christian and all those other christians were, at best, misguided fakes -- if not outright evil criminals. Glad that's not what you're saying. phew.gif

 

So let me start over please. Welcome, to Ex-C. Hope you enjoy your time here. You might find the Ex-Christian Spirituality section of great interest. Here is the description of it:

 

This area is for those who have left Christianity for another form of theism or spirituality (Deism, Paganism, Wicca, Great Spirit, The Force, Buddhism, etc.).

 

 

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As i mentioned before - i love God. I do, really. And it's very sad for me, the fact that God is wrongly associated with those people.

 

Those people = christians.

 

Sorry I misinterpreted your comments. I just read something very similar to your post somewhere else. After a lot of toying around, the poster concluded with the zinger that she was the Really True Christian and all those other christians were, at best, misguided fakes -- if not outright evil criminals. Glad that's not what you're saying. phew.gif

 

So let me start over please. Welcome, to Ex-C. Hope you enjoy your time here. You might find the Ex-Christian Spirituality section of great interest. Here is the description of it:

 

This area is for those who have left Christianity for another form of theism or spirituality (Deism, Paganism, Wicca, Great Spirit, The Force, Buddhism, etc.).

Thanks! I'll explore it too!

 

In the moment i noticed something very strange for me in this forum. A huge part of it looks not ex-christian but.. christian to me :twitch:

 

Something like "i don't believe in Jesus = i don't believe in God".. But it seems to me, that if for somebody Jesus=God, then the person is christian (if not believing - a "bad" one then).

 

Seems like for many people it's not so easy to part with christianity, people fell bad, are afraid of hell etc :twitch: Christianity makes them suffer even now. For me the idea of some dead body being a "God" (the creator, the universe etc) is just wrong, it looked right only until i found out what and why christians really mean.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi, Susie. The huge disconnect or incompatibility or whatever you want to call it between the NT and the OT was a big factor in my deconversion also. Welcome to Ex-C!

 

 

 

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Welcome Susie! Several of us still follow a variety of spiritual paths after leaving Jesus. There is a section called Ex-Christian Spirituality on this forum, where we talk about our "God" concepts.

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Hi, Susie. The huge disconnect or incompatibility or whatever you want to call it between the NT and the OT was a big factor in my deconversion also. Welcome to Ex-C!

 

I had even started learning Hebrew - it helps a lot, even on a newbie level - i can read (with online dictionary :grin: ) what is actually written in Tanach in places i'm curious about (i don't read OT any more, because there are falsifications there, for example the Book of Malachi is placed last, so that a prophecy of the coming of the Messiah leads into the birth of the Christ in the Gospel of Matthew, the book of Daniel is moved to Prophets section etc)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

 

 

 

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Thanks! I'll explore it too!

 

In the moment i noticed something very strange for me in this forum. A huge part of it looks not ex-christian but.. christian to me :twitch:

 

Something like "i don't believe in Jesus = i don't believe in God".. But it seems to me, that if for somebody Jesus=God, then the person is christian (if not believing - a "bad" one then).

 

Seems like for many people it's not so easy to part with christianity, people fell bad, are afraid of hell etc :twitch: Christianity makes them suffer even now. For me the idea of some dead body being a "God" (the creator, the universe etc) is just wrong, it looked right only until i found out what and why christians really mean.

 

 

First of all, welcome and secondly, bravo for joining a forum that's not in your native language. what is your native language btw, if you don't mind my asking. :)

 

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but it sounds like you're saying people who don't believe in Jesus or God are bad christians? I know I must be misunderstanding you, 'cause that doesn't make sense.

 

Many of us have taken a path along these lines - we believed in Christianity - we had doubts - we started looking for evidence - we found none. so we left Christianity, and now, a lot of us want evidence for believing in anything, and there is no evidence, scientifically speaking, that there is a god.

 

Others have chosen religions and spiritual paths that are kinder and gentler than Christianity.

 

Still others, believe in a force or an intelligence but they don't choose to call it god.

 

None of those groups qualify as Christian. :)

 

 

 

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Thanks! I'll explore it too!

 

In the moment i noticed something very strange for me in this forum. A huge part of it looks not ex-christian but.. christian to me :twitch:

 

Something like "i don't believe in Jesus = i don't believe in God".. But it seems to me, that if for somebody Jesus=God, then the person is christian (if not believing - a "bad" one then).

 

Seems like for many people it's not so easy to part with christianity, people fell bad, are afraid of hell etc :twitch: Christianity makes them suffer even now. For me the idea of some dead body being a "God" (the creator, the universe etc) is just wrong, it looked right only until i found out what and why christians really mean.

 

 

First of all, welcome and secondly, bravo for joining a forum that's not in your native language. what is your native language btw, if you don't mind my asking. :)

 

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but it sounds like you're saying people who don't believe in Jesus or God are bad christians? I know I must be misunderstanding you, 'cause that doesn't make sense.

 

Many of us have taken a path along these lines - we believed in Christianity - we had doubts - we started looking for evidence - we found none. so we left Christianity, and now, a lot of us want evidence for believing in anything, and there is no evidence, scientifically speaking, that there is a god.

 

Others have chosen religions and spiritual paths that are kinder and gentler than Christianity.

 

Still others, believe in a force or an intelligence but they don't choose to call it god.

 

None of those groups qualify as Christian. :)

 

 

 

 

 

For me people who think that Jesus is God are christians. And then a person says "I don't believe in God" meaning he or she doesn't believe in Jesus - for me it's a christian, just a "bad" one. It's very strange to read about ex-christian who is ..afraid of christian hell :twitch: , or feels guilty for ..not visiting christian church etc. I just don't see any other reason except christianity, why would anybody connect some very dead person to "global" things like creation of the world, laws of nature, life etc (wherever the person believes in god or not).

 

My native language is russian and i study hebrew in the moment.Helps a lot, to explore christian lies about what is written in jewish books, it's very interesting for me.

 

For example - any christian knows a story about Adam, Eve, Satan, Apple and God (i even found it in children's Bible that way). And the real story is about Adam, Hava, a snake (just a snake, no Satan), some fruit (not apple) and God. So in christian story the man was seduced by some powerful and evil force (and was not fairly punished for that) and in the real one - just made a decision on his own, inspired by a talking snake.

 

 

 

 

 

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For me people who think that Jesus is God are christians. And then a person says "I don't believe in God" meaning he or she doesn't believe in Jesus - for me it's a christian, just a "bad" one. It's very strange to read about ex-christian who is ..afraid of christian hell :twitch: , or feels guilty for ..not visiting christian church etc. I just don't see any other reason except christianity, why would anybody connect some very dead person to "global" things like creation of the world, laws of nature, life etc (wherever the person believes in god or not).

 

 

 

In the Christian mythology, Jesus is not dead. He rose from the dead and is part of the Trinity. People who have been brainwashed in that belief system, when exiting, are often scarred and have residual effects from the brainwashing. Many of them were taught about hell from a young age, and part of the brainwashing is that doubts are from Satan, so when they start to lose their beliefs, fear kicks in and tells them that Satan is just lying to them and so they worry that if it all turns out to be true, they will be sent to hell for not believing. It's a vicious cycle and often requires therapy in order to recover. But it doesn't make them "bad" Christians.

 

I was indoctrinated in the stuff for twenty years and it took a good five years to get over it. I don't believe in any of it anymore. I also do not believe in a single personality known as god creating everything. I am not a Christian, bad or otherwise. In fact, to be a Christian, one must be a follower of Christ.

 

To give you an example, a bad Christian is someone who still believes but simply isn't following the lifestyle. Not believing, but still having residual fear is not the same thing. Does that make sense?

 

 

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For me people who think that Jesus is God are christians. And then a person says "I don't believe in God" meaning he or she doesn't believe in Jesus - for me it's a christian, just a "bad" one. It's very strange to read about ex-christian who is ..afraid of christian hell :twitch: , or feels guilty for ..not visiting christian church etc. I just don't see any other reason except christianity, why would anybody connect some very dead person to "global" things like creation of the world, laws of nature, life etc (wherever the person believes in god or not).

 

 

 

In the Christian mythology, Jesus is not dead. He rose from the dead and is part of the Trinity. People who have been brainwashed in that belief system, when exiting, are often scarred and have residual effects from the brainwashing. Many of them were taught about hell from a young age, and part of the brainwashing is that doubts are from Satan, so when they start to lose their beliefs, fear kicks in and tells them that Satan is just lying to them and so they worry that if it all turns out to be true, they will be sent to hell for not believing. It's a vicious cycle and often requires therapy in order to recover. But it doesn't make them "bad" Christians.

 

I was indoctrinated in the stuff for twenty years and it took a good five years to get over it. I don't believe in any of it anymore. I also do not believe in a single personality known as god creating everything. I am not a Christian, bad or otherwise. In fact, to be a Christian, one must be a follower of Christ.

 

To give you an example, a bad Christian is someone who still believes but simply isn't following the lifestyle. Not believing, but still having residual fear is not the same thing. Does that make sense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course it does, but if a person is afraid of hell or just feels guilty (for example) for me it looks like he still believes.

 

Trinity, Satan (in christian version) and Jesus are just a "pagan" pantheon, like ancient greek, for example. There are even numerous lesser gods - saints. It's a cruel and very aggressive polytheism, that worships death, suffering, lies and even promotes human sacrifices (that dead Jesus, for example).

 

For me an ex-christian is a person who parted with that polytheism completely - not with just one of it's deities - Jesus.

 

 

 

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For me an ex-christian is a person who parted with that polytheism completely - not with just one of it's deities - Jesus.

 

 

Since you say you still believe in God, that would mean, by your own definition, you're still a Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For me an ex-christian is a person who parted with that polytheism completely - not with just one of it's deities - Jesus.

 

 

Since you say you still believe in God, that would mean, by your own definition, you're still a Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

How? Christianity is polytheistic, i personaly believe in one God - it's monotheism (or it may be defined as agnosticism, since my God is life itself, not sure how to call it).

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Hi, Susie, and welcome to ExC. I'm glad you saw the truth about Christianity and left it. Good move on your part.

 

Don't be too tough on those on this forum who have a fear of hell. It does not necessarily mean that they remain Christians. To understand this, you need to take the time to read a lot of posts on this forum. When you do, I think you will come to realize that this is a frairly eclectic group.

 

There are those who come here already convinced that Christianity is a false religion. That sounds like you and it was me when I came here. For many of us in this group, once we came to the rational conclusion that Christianity is a false religion, then the concept of hell held no more sway over us. It was swept away with the religion.

 

Others come here not exactly sure what to believe. They know there are problems with Christianity but have not yet made up their minds. These are seekers of the truth and many of us do what we can to help them find the truth. Occasionally, someone in this category will come here, ask earnest questions and get earnest answers from many of us, but decide to stay with Christianity. But many of those in this category eventually come to the conclusion that Christianity is a false religion.

 

Then there is a special category of people on this forum. These are people for whom there is a disconnect between their intellect and their fears. I am not putting them down by saying this, because many in this category readily admit this disconnect. They will often say something to the effect that intellectually they know that Christianity is a false religion, but there is something about the religion that lingers and causes them fear. For many that which lingers is an irrational fear of hell. These people are not to be put down in the slightest because what they are dealing with is no different from other irrational fears that some people have. For example, there are those who fear dogs. I could explain to them all day long that my two little white dogs are completely harmless and prove to them that those little house dogs would never in a million years do harm to them. But to the person with an irrational fear of dogs, my demonstration will be to no effect. What I am saying is that just because a person who intellectually knows and accepts that Christianity is a false religion still has an irrational fear of hell that person is not still a Christian. Rather, they are the victim of Christian brainwashing which left them scarred.

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Hi, Susie, and welcome to ExC. I'm glad you saw the truth about Christianity and left it. Good move on your part.

 

Don't be too tough on those on this forum who have a fear of hell. It does not necessarily mean that they remain Christians. To understand this, you need to take the time to read a lot of posts on this forum. When you do, I think you will come to realize that this is a frairly eclectic group.

 

There are those who come here already convinced that Christianity is a false religion. That sounds like you and it was me when I came here. For many of us in this group, once we came to the rational conclusion that Christianity is a false religion, then the concept of hell held no more sway over us. It was swept away with the religion.

 

Others come here not exactly sure what to believe. They know there are problems with Christianity but have not yet made up their minds. These are seekers of the truth and many of us do what we can to help them find the truth. Occasionally, someone in this category will come here, ask earnest questions and get earnest answers from many of us, but decide to stay with Christianity. But many of those in this category eventually come to the conclusion that Christianity is a false religion.

 

Then there is a special category of people on this forum. These are people for whom there is a disconnect between their intellect and their fears. I am not putting them down by saying this, because many in this category readily admit this disconnect. They will often say something to the effect that intellectually they know that Christianity is a false religion, but there is something about the religion that lingers and causes them fear. For many that which lingers is an irrational fear of hell. These people are not to be put down in the slightest because what they are dealing with is no different from other irrational fears that some people have. For example, there are those who fear dogs. I could explain to them all day long that my two little white dogs are completely harmless and prove to them that those little house dogs would never in a million years do harm to them. But to the person with an irrational fear of dogs, my demonstration will be to no effect. What I am saying is that just because a person who intellectually knows and accepts that Christianity is a false religion still has an irrational fear of hell that person is not still a Christian. Rather, they are the victim of Christian brainwashing which left them scarred.

 

 

 

 

Hi! I don't want to be tough on anyone, I used fear of hell just as an example of how difficult it is really to part with christianity - even without Jesus there is still hell left (and its not in afterlife this hell is right here and now). This fear seems to be the most powerful of christian brainwashing (along with guilt) and looks very effective.

 

I noticed some other very "sticky" things - the whole idea of christianity being an monotheism for example. It's irrational but many people believe (or "know") it, even those who are not christian, i used to think that way myself, but once i decided to count :HaHa: After carefull counting christianity doesn't look even like abrahamic religion - i think that Abraham (if existed) would have been terrified by this monstrosity, it's rituals and a dead body on a stick.

 

BTW it seems i also have a problem with fear, but of some other sort. Those images of corpses on a cross, tortured and killed "saints" etc. make me very uncomfortable. If feel like i'm forced to watch all those horrors and they appear in most unexpected places - on t-shirts, posters, TV, museums of course, souvenirs and numerous trinklets (my best friend always wears 3 of them on her neck, one of dead Jesus and the other two are dead ladies).

 

 

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Hi! I don't want to be tough on anyone, I used fear of hell just as an example of how difficult it is really to part with christianity - even without Jesus there is still hell left (and its not in afterlife this hell is right here and now). This fear seems to be the most powerful of christian brainwashing (along with guilt) and looks very effective.

 

I noticed some other very "sticky" things - the whole idea of christianity being an monotheism for example. It's irrational but many people believe (or "know") it, even those who are not christian, i used to think that way myself, but once i decided to count :HaHa: After carefull counting christianity doesn't look even like abrahamic religion - i think that Abraham (if existed) would have been terrified by this monstrosity, it's rituals and a dead body on a stick.

 

BTW it seems i also have a problem with fear, but of some other sort. Those images of corpses on a cross, tortured and killed "saints" etc. make me very uncomfortable. If feel like i'm forced to watch all those horrors and they appear in most unexpected places - on t-shirts, posters, TV, museums of course, souvenirs and numerous trinklets (my best friend always wears 3 of them on her neck, one of dead Jesus and the other two are dead ladies).

 

I agree that in a very real sense Christianity is not a true monotheistic religion. There had to be some major torturing of the concept of monotheism for the early church to take care of their obvious problem of proclaiming Jesus as god yet also the son of god. Of course, that's where the concept of the trinity comes in. Once I got out of the religion, I began to see the concept of the trinity for what it truly is - a way to take a polytheistic religion and attempt to turn it into a monotheistic religion.

 

When I see those symbols of the dying Jesus on the cross, they really gross me out. Yet when I was a Christian, I saw them as an important reminder of the sacrifice that Jesus made for all of us. It's amazing what a proper perspective can do to one's views.

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