Has Anyone Actually Found The Historical Jesus Of The Nt

[nebula]

The websites that had the greatest impact on me were http://rationalrevol...h_history.htm#1 and http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

 

These are great links. I knew about R.G. Price (Rational Revolution) whom I greatly admire but not the Jesus Never Existed one so thanks for including that. Here is another one which has 3 Jesus candidates if I remember correctly.

[Godless Dave]

Doesn't it seem suspicious nobody who knew Jesus thought to write something down during his lifetime?

 

Well most written records from that time (and most history) didn't survive. There are decades of Roman history that are lost, and they kept written records like madmen.

 

The first century was actually pretty well documented. There were many scholars writing things down.

 

 

And many records that didn't survive.

 

Also, you'd think if Jesus was such a huge figure, as the gospels make him out to be, that some record of him would survive. After all, a lot was written about Joseph Smith in his time, and not just by his followers.

 

Joseph Smith was a lot more recent, and was after the invention of the printing press, so I don't think that's a fair comparison. I certainly agree that if Jesus was as huge a figure as the gospels make him out to be - even without the miracles - we would expect to find records mentioning him. But that's a different question than if he actually existed. If he did, I suspect he was one of many minor apocalyptic preachers in that place at that time, and the gospels reflect later stories that were embellished after his death.

[hereticzero]

Doesn't it seem suspicious nobody who knew Jesus thought to write something down during his lifetime?

 

Well most written records from that time (and most history) didn't survive. There are decades of Roman history that are lost, and they kept written records like madmen.

 

The first century was actually pretty well documented. There were many scholars writing things down. Also, you'd think if Jesus was such a huge figure, as the gospels make him out to be, that some record of him would survive. After all, a lot was written about Joseph Smith in his time, and not just by his followers.

Documented by who? Joseph Smith was documented by historians because he was actually alive at one time. Claiming the first century was well documented is a real stretch of the imagination.

[ChurchSucks]

Hi All,

 

 

Six months ago I would not have been writing this. I was, to all intents and purposes, a fully-fledged, bible-believing Christian.

 

 

If I had come across this website I would have been sad and prayerful for all the 'lost souls' posting whose assured destiny was hell.

 

I became a born again Christian over 14 years ago and had not doubted the inerrancy of the bible nor my belief in Jesus Christ after my conversion.

 

My church life had not gone smoothly as I quickly discovered that most churches are mainly interested in worker bees with big pockets rather than the well being of the individual and difficult questions tend to be glossed over with the polish of someone running for political office.

 

As a result I was not a regular church attendee but was part of a local bible study group.

 

I received my wake up call in January during my daily bible reading whilst studying Timothy, in particular, 2 Timothy 3:16 - 'All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..'.

The internal thought conversation went a bit like this...

 

"hmmm I wonder what scripture Paul was referring to as I'm sure that the whole bible hadn't been written before Timothy"

 

"Well maybe it was just a general comment.."

 

"Must look at this in a bit more depth when I have time".

 

Bible closed and off to work however the thought just wouldn't leave me alone. By the time I had finished work I felt the need to do some self study.

 

Many of you will not be suprised at the journey I have been through over the last few months - reviewing the compilation of the bible, early church fathers, Christianity's resemblance to earlier pagan religions, interpolations into historical documents and discovering the differing view points of the early Christians.

 

Essentially doing all the 'due diligiance' about the religion that I would advise anyone to do who was considering a business proposal or investment. Let's be honest Christianity is an investment of your time, heart and money.

 

The aspect that suprised me most was the virtually total absence, if not complete absence, of any qualified historical data regarding the existance of the Jesus of the bible. Plenty of Jesus' mentioned but not THE Jesus.

 

The websites that had the greatest impact on me were http://rationalrevol...h_history.htm#1 and http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

 

I really wanted to dismiss the information that I was uncovering but after comparing the modern apologetics with the likes of Ken Humphreys, Bart Ehrmann, D M Murdock, G Massey etc etc - I realised that I was losing the battle and couldn't hold back the tide any longer.

 

The roller coaster of emotions is quite painful and have been quite angry that pastors, who have completed theological qualifications, can stand at the front of the congregation state that the bible is inerrant. Especially as trained pastors must know that there is such a derth of historical data

 

On the positive side I can now embrace people for what they are and no longer judge people basis on their religion or life choices.

 

Freedom of mind is a precious gift, which allows us to explore concepts and ideas untainted by pre constraining ideologies.

 

There is one question that I would like to throw open to all...has anyone actually found the historical Jesus?

 

I'm fairly certain there was at least a historical Jesus, even though it is likely that the stories about him were inflated in order to try and win converts. Even though the New Testament books aren't authoritatively "scripture" that doesn't mean they can't be viewed as historical documents.

 

I recommend checking out what Bart Ehrman has to say about the topic, he's who convinced me that Jesus actually existed, even though he wasn't divine and most of the things said about him weren't true.

[Yask]

Hi and welcome, WUC.

I think yours is the one question every ex-Christian asks. Was there ever a real Jesus? In any regard to what's related in the NT especially?

 

 

Professor Bart Ehrman, a New Testament Scholar, who was formerly a fundamentalist Christian and even pastor for awhile, asserts that credible evidence does exist to say that a man named Yeshua (Jesus in the Greek) did exist. However, he wasn't the miracle magician Paul, who wrote 2/3rds of the NT, promotes.

 

Professor Bart D. Ehrman website.

 

He's written a number of books, so perhaps reviewing those at the site will help you decide if you want to read his findings. Many of his books are available in audio format as well.

 

I have found most public libraries carry his books. If not, I always check with "Interlibrary Loan" (A borrowing system of libraries that share their materials.) so as to obtain what I'm looking for. Thanks to ILL I'm very well traveled in my reading.

[Yask]

P.S

There appears, allegedly, a reference in the Babylonian Talmud that relates a story of Jesus. Though not at all in keeping with the Biblical narrative of his life and actions.

 

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald . . . cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy." The Babylonian Talmud, translated by I. Epstein (London: Soncino, 1935), vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a, 281, cited in Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 203.

[nebula]

P.S

There appears, allegedly, a reference in the Babylonian Talmud that relates a story of Jesus. Though not at all in keeping with the Biblical narrative of his life and actions.

 

I think this Jesus is Yeishu ha-Notzri who is mentioned in this article. Also, here is an interview with R.G. Price:

 

 

[lilcoppertop]

I, too, started out looking for the historical Jesus (well...that and the compiling of the canon of scripture. I want to know motives!)...and while I haven't gone REALLY deep into it...I haven't found anything. Which has made me wonder if he even really existed. Or if he DID exist, what is the likelihood that he was who the gospels claim he was and did the things they claim he did and nobody made a record of it for at least 70 years? It just all seems suspect to me.

[Guest Valk0010i]

I am sorta of the opinion, of you can't really say for sure based of the evidence. While I find the idea of a historical jesus more convincing then the mythcist position. I certainty don't think the matter could be considered settled by any means.