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How Do You Answer To The "lack Of Faith Argument"


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Christian Apologetics use a lot the "lack of faith argument".

 

Why won't we see miracles? Because of our lack of faith...

 

Why won't God heal amputees? Because God heals people according to their faith and every normal person knows rationally that an amputated limp cannot regenerate - therefore there's no person who really believes that God is able to do so - and that's why God doesn't do so...

 

Jesus calmed the stormy weather. The ordinary people didn't do it... Why? Because of their lack of faith...

 

This is scary and it seems that the apologetics argument I call "lack of faith argument" is without a satisfying answer...

 

What to say in this situation?

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Why do you have to answer it at all? All christian apologetics are based on circular reasoning and not logic. You cannot win this argument. It's a waste of your energy. The very idea that your eternal destiny would be decided by whether or not you believe hearsay is ludicrous. If god is so fucking all powerful, then he should be able to prove his existence and love without faith when all evidence points against his very existence.

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Why do you have to answer it at all?

 

There is an ongoing discussion in a local Bulgarian forum... And I got spammed by many questions like this one...

 

And I answered you rather abruptly because I get very fed up with Christian bullshit. I really don't know if there is a good answer, but perhaps someone else here will. It's rather convenient, however, to say that it's a 'lack of faith' when someone doesn't get what they want. It's similar to saying that if your prayers aren't answered, the truth is the answer is no. The best I can offer is that you redirect the conversation and put the burden of proof on them. For example, why does god allow people to get sick or lose limbs to begin with?

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Written as though I was arguing with them directly.

 

Christian Apologetics use a lot the "lack of faith argument".

 

Why won't we see miracles? Because of our lack of faith...

 

Why don't you see the evil that your God does?

 

Why won't God heal amputees? Because God heals people according to their faith and every normal person knows rationally that an amputated limp cannot regenerate - therefore there's no person who really believes that God is able to do so - and that's why God doesn't do so...

 

So God is limited in power by the lack of faith in him. Sounds mighty powerful to me.

This is great news for those who believe in hell currently.

All they have to do is admit there is no hell and they cannot ever go there!

God becomes impotent.

Of course, I say go full hog and conclude God doesn't exist.

Then by his own impotence he no longer exists.

 

Jesus calmed the stormy weather. The ordinary people didn't do it... Why? Because of their lack of faith...

 

I fought for my life and house during Australia's worst bushfire. I saved my house and a few neighbours houses too. My wife was by my side all the way.

All the Christians houses in the street burned to the ground.

All the atheists houses survived.

They lacked faith in themselves but had faith in God.

We lacked faith in God but had faith in ourselves.

 

Guess which one prevailed. The impotent God or the prepared atheists...

 

This is scary and it seems that the apologetics argument I call "lack of faith argument" is without a satisfying answer...

 

What to say in this situation?

 

 

I have total faith that you're crazy.

Say it with a smile too.

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They have to make it appear that God is blameless. It is never God's fault - because God is supposed to be good, so it must be our fault. This runs throughout Christian apologetics. Contrary to all evidence of the world, God is good and it must be argued that he is good and we are bad.

 

Yes, you cannot win this argument.

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I think that AlphaToOmega gave the best answer here ... I think I understand the whole siliness of apologetics... Christians are claiming that God is omnipotent, but at the same time they're limiting his omnipotence and make him impotent

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Biblical faith: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

 

In other words, wishful thinking.

 

Why won't God heal amputees? Because God heals people according to their faith and every normal person knows rationally that an amputated limp cannot regenerate - therefore there's no person who really believes that God is able to do so - and that's why God doesn't do so...

 

If no one in the entire world has this kind of faith, it means it's impossible, so what power does it have?

 

The entire lack of faith argument is a cop out. You aren't going to win an argument with people too stupid to see what is plainly obvious to the rest of the rational world.

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Why do you have to answer it at all?

 

There is an ongoing discussion in a local Bulgarian forum... And I got spammed by many questions like this one...

 

Are there a lot of Bulgarians involved in protestant christianity these days? I've been rolling around the idea of spending some time there, but I may give it a second thought if it's rolling in fundies like the US.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

Why don't your wishes come true? Because you don't believe in magic!

 

As a child, you may have believed that, but probably don't no more. The thing is, its the same as with prayer, yet they don't realize it. You won't be able to use logic to convince people that have minds of children.

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NS don't I know you from Tentmaker? I was Seeker there.

 

You cannot win these arguments as they will not capitulate, that is more fearful than hell to them.

 

I just keep plugging away showering them with logic and rationale while they shower me with blessings of the middle finger kind :D

 

I pose questions upon questions and they are never answered. Mainly I use the bible against them and not the skeptics version but if you know it well enough, there tons of examples you can cherry pick and show them the implausibility of it all.

 

The guided evolution folk are a bit more open and as the US enters into election cycle 2012, its all about morality. The US having the highest divorce rate, highest teen pregnancies and abortions plays marvelously into my hands, it really boils down to whose fucking who and how and how god is upset at how much we like to fuck, they are obsessed with sex.

 

As for the faith, it is the go to answer for everything that does not happen. You can throw in stats of prayer vs no prayer and the results being the same but that is merely a conspiracy of stan, stan is good with twisting numbers except when they claim argumentum ad numerum for the 2Bn xians on the planet.

 

Any failing of any xian pointed out, they roll out the no true Scotsman fallacy.

 

But we all held onto the flimsiest threads when we were starting to question. Know your audience, some guys can be reasoned with others you waste your time and effort.

 

It is my opinion that and xian on the webs in forums and debating are ripe for deconversion, the trick is to find out where they stand and feed them the best seeds of doubt that will work.

 

Don't waste time on links to long articles, summarize and post the link as a back up.

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Bernie: I am your friend, B_T from Tentmaker :D

 

 

Are there a lot of Bulgarians involved in protestant christianity these days? I've been rolling around the idea of spending some time there, but I may give it a second thought if it's rolling in fundies like the US.

 

Vigile, Bulgaria is traditionally an Eastern Orthodox Country and our Orthodoxy is flirting with Christian Universalism (or at least I think so) ... Of course, nobody has admitted that openly and orthodoxals still believe in hell, but hope that everyone will get to heaven...

 

However... after the fall of communism many, many protestant churches appeared, under the American influence.

 

So yeah, it's full of fundies these days.

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Bernie: I am your friend, B_T from Tentmaker

 

I though you were. Still have not come over to the dark side I see :wicked:

 

How's your fiance/wife (can't remember)

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However... after the fall of communism many, many protestant churches appeared, under the American influence.

 

Bummer.

 

They, for whatever reason, haven't made many inroads into Russia. I don't know any Russian fundies here in Russia. The only ones I know live in the US.

 

Of course, nobody has admitted that openly and orthodoxals still believe in hell, but hope that everyone will get to heaven...

 

I wasn't aware they believed in hell. Russians don't seem too worried about it. I did meet an Orthodox priest the other day. With my limited Russian, I understood he is trekking around Russia on a spiritual quest kind of like a Hindu guru might. He was very nice and while I don't buy into his beliefs, I gave him 100 rubles (about $3.75, give or take) just because I liked him and he looked like he could use a good meal.

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Why won't God heal amputees? Because God heals people according to their faith and every normal person knows rationally that an amputated limp cannot regenerate - therefore there's no person who really believes that God is able to do so - and that's why God doesn't do so...

 

Why won't God heal then child amputees? It would be nice of him to show his powers and the power of faith through kids. Who, by the way, usually DO believe they can be healed if they are indoctrinated into the Xtian faith! Also by healing child amputees God could humiliate adults for their lack of faith and teach them a lesson. So that would be perfect.

 

BTW, according to the Bible you don't need huge faith to work miracles:

 

"I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

 

(Matthew 17:20)

 

 

 

 

Don't tell me nobody on this Earth has at least a little faith.

 

 

 

 

 

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BTW, according to the Bible you don't need huge faith to work miracles:

 

"I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

 

(Matthew 17:20)

 

Don't tell me nobody on this Earth has at least a little faith.

Yup the promise that fails to deliver.

 

The standard apology of this verse not being taken literally can be loosely translated as;

 

If you pretend just a little bit, this insurmountable problem you face (mountain) will go away (well till reality kicks in again) jeebus will kiss it and make it aaaaall better.

 

Or dumbed down further

 

Don't worry, be happy...

 

Here's a little poem I wrote... deflect, deflect

Just gimme those pennies in your overcoat

Don't worry, be happy...

Woohoo.......

 

Just make shit up as you go along, the bible makes perfect sense.

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The mustard seed argument is an excellent response to the "lack of faith" apologetic.

Jesus made numerous promises of wonder working power that are utter failures, along with his promise of a second coming.

Another response centers around the Pope, specifically John Paul II, who suffered from severe illness for years.

If the Pope of the Catholic Church, nor any of its members don't have enough faith to have healed him, then that's a scathing condemnation for the power of faith.

The same can be applied to Protestants, and every time a mega preacher crows about the power of faith, ask them if they carry insurance, why they wear glasses, take medication, etc.

The power of faith is a crock sold to give people hope while making them feel inferior at the same time.

Since none of these preachers has ever emptied a nursing home, the burden of proof is on them to deliver the goods according to the promises of the Bible.

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Jesus calmed the stormy weather. The ordinary people didn't do it... Why? Because of their lack of faith...

 

I fought for my life and house during Australia's worst bushfire. I saved my house and a few neighbours houses too. My wife was by my side all the way.

All the Christians houses in the street burned to the ground.

All the atheists houses survived.

They lacked faith in themselves but had faith in God.

We lacked faith in God but had faith in ourselves.

 

Guess which one prevailed. The impotent God or the prepared atheists...

 

 

That is simply a powerful illustrative story! It should be the most effective come back to the "not enough faith" retort. It won't convince a theist right then and there, but it should cause a few cogs to spin and grind that haven't been used in a long time!

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Jesus calmed the stormy weather. The ordinary people didn't do it... Why? Because of their lack of faith...

 

I fought for my life and house during Australia's worst bushfire. I saved my house and a few neighbours houses too. My wife was by my side all the way.

All the Christians houses in the street burned to the ground.

All the atheists houses survived.

They lacked faith in themselves but had faith in God.

We lacked faith in God but had faith in ourselves.

 

Guess which one prevailed. The impotent God or the prepared atheists...

 

 

That is simply a powerful illustrative story! It should be the most effective come back to the "not enough faith" retort. It won't convince a theist right then and there, but it should cause a few cogs to spin and grind that haven't been used in a long time!

 

 

Sadly my cousin who knew what we went through, knew how many others died overall, knew how many houses were destroyed, knew that 5 people burned to death just across the road from us simply says, "God works in mysterious ways".

There is no arguing with a biased mind. It simply convinces itself it is us that are the biased ones and we are the non-objective ones.

 

 

 

 

 

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VADER

Don't be too proud of this

technological terror you've

constructed. The ability to destroy

a planet is insignificant next to

the power of the Force.

 

MOTTI

Don't try to frighten us with your

sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your

sad devotion to that ancient religion

has not helped you conjure up the

stolen data tapes, or given you

clairvoyance enough to find the

Rebel's hidden fort...

 

Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's spell.

 

VADER

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

 

TARKIN

Enough of this! Vader, release him!

 

VADER

As you wish.

In this example the "lack of faith" is immediately corrected through a direct and personalized demonstration. Vader cares.

 

mwc

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As a FB friend put it , "I used to believe in all sorts of things. Then I grew my curly hair and not so much anymore."

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Gee, this sounds like....................maybe you didn't pray enough or fast (food) enough or hard enough or whatever.

 

What a crock of crap! It used to piss me off when I would hear other christians say these things to people who really believed and were praying for something that wasn't stupid (winning the lottery, etc.).

 

My husbands cousin had colon cancer and her church would pray over her, fast for her, you name it and went on and on about how she was going to be cured when it was obvious there was no way in hell she was going to survive. People actually stopped believing in god and left the church because it opened their eyes to the craziness of it all.

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You know, the church I left went on a missionary trip. Complete with a faith healer and all. When they came back they said that an amputee was healed and made whole again. You wouldn't believe how many people ate that shit up. They had no pictures, or evidence of any kind, but people still believed it.

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