Deva Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Ok, I joined a Facebook group for cult survivors of a certain Christian cult with which I am intimately familiar. It seems the vast majority of posters still love Jeebus, the Bible, and still go to Church. I am completely mystified and just don't know what to make of this. Some even claim to have been sexually abused but still remain in the cult or one of its other Christian offshoots. Its the "I love God and they just had the wrong idea" I can't stay there because I can't comprehend why anyone would want to CONTINUE the abuse by exposing themselves to the teachings of said cult as if there were no connection. Beats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted June 27, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2011 Ok, I joined a Facebook group for cult survivors of a certain Christian cult with which I am intimately familiar. It seems the vast majority of posters still love Jeebus, the Bible, and still go to Church. I am completely mystified and just don't know what to make of this. Some even claim to have been sexually abused but still remain in the cult or one of its other Christian offshoots. Its the "I love God and they just had the wrong idea" I can't stay there because I can't comprehend why anyone would want to CONTINUE the abuse by exposing themselves to the teachings of said cult as if there were no connection. Beats me. That would be me Deva - I just couln't cut those last god damn ties!! It's been 2 years for me now - not attending any church. Ya- hooooo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Good for you, Margee. But you say its been two year and you haven't attended any church? That's great! These folks are still mired in the whole thing for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted June 27, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2011 Good for you, Margee. But you say its been two year and you haven't attended any church? That's great! These folks are still mired in the whole thing for the most part. I stayed and stayed and stayed and stayed.............. I even looked the part - lifting holy hands and shouting praises unto the lord. I wanted soooooo hard to believe in the end............ but it really was over for me. I wonder how many of them are faking it like I did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScifiChick Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I stayed and stayed and stayed and stayed.............. I even looked the part - lifting holy hands and shouting praises unto the lord. I wanted soooooo hard to believe in the end............ but it really was over for me. I wonder how many of them are faking it like I did? Good question. One of the most terrifying moments in my life was when I had to tell my mother, who is also my best friend, that I no longer believed. I geared up, sat her on the sofa and told her. To my astonishment, she said she's been having these questions for years, and within one conversation I had all her questions answered and she left right along with me. At first, I was angry and appalled that she hadn't shared her doubts with me, but then, I had to be honest. I wouldn't have been receptive to her questions and would have merely put up the shield of nonsense that true believers carry around with them, and then I would have prayed for her - she, on the other hand, was afraid to make me question as she was afraid it would make me unstable and suicidal. She was completely mistaken, but her motives were honest. So, for whatever reason, lots of people stay in longer than they should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Ok, I joined a Facebook group for cult survivors of a certain Christian cult with which I am intimately familiar. It seems the vast majority of posters still love Jeebus, the Bible, and still go to Church. I am completely mystified and just don't know what to make of this. Some even claim to have been sexually abused but still remain in the cult or one of its other Christian offshoots. Its the "I love God and they just had the wrong idea" I can't stay there because I can't comprehend why anyone would want to CONTINUE the abuse by exposing themselves to the teachings of said cult as if there were no connection. Beats me. I'm convinced that religious faith mis-programs a basic survival mechanism that treats an imaginary possibility with the same gravity as though it were real. Valerie Tarico wrote about this on the main blog a few months back. Once believers feel that the only alternative to fervent faith is torture in hellfire, the mechanism seals itself to most contrary information in order to protect the individual from harm, or from making the ultimate Daddy angry. This is why most arguments and facts bounce right off of believers, some of whom will just laugh and say we don't know "their Jesus". It takes something that really penetrates to that person's core to get past the security systems and enable questioning. I think the particular thing that does this is different for each person. The things that shook me awake didn't seem to phase others I knew who saw the same things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I exited the madness via christian univeralism which teaches that all are saved. In a nutshell, it dealt with the hell concepts but still holds to the inerrancy and afterlife. IOW a sugar coated turd. I got banned as an administrator of a CU website when I dared to question the inerrancy of the bible. It was merely folk who had abuse but still wanted to believe in god in one form or another. I started my own forum and dragged 50% of their member with but that only lasted a year or so while we thrashed out the topics we were not allowed to discuss. I guess for some it is just too hard to finally admit and let go and do anything to maintain the false hope of some afterlife. Thanks to a UK atheist Transponder aka Arequipa who is very knowledgeable pointed me to all the right sites for info. Once the walls began to crumble it was a chain effect. This is why groups like this are essential as we tend to seek out like minded folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Read up on Stockholm Syndrome, might provide some insight. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with people such as that though if they are that far gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 To me a survivor of the cult is someone who is free of the damn cult, not someone who is still in one being victimized. To me, there isn't hardly an iota of difference in the Southern Baptists and the Independent Baptists. Its still the same basic crap. Probably I will stay out of there. Otherwise it could get ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 The very day I deconverted I very briefly (as in, for three hours) considered Christian Universalism. I could hold on to the God/Savior I had been so devoted to while abandoning the horrible hell doctrine that did the most to prompt my deconversion. But then I said "fuck it" and went the full agnostic. Here are the reasons as to why I didn't go with Christian Universalism, in no particular order: 1. I had to get as far away from that crazy-ass abusive God as possible. I feared that if I stayed too close, I'd get reeled back into the nightmare of fundamentalism, so I had to make my escape complete. 2. Christian Universalists burn in the same hell as atheists, according to my former Pentecostal faith. I'd be just as fucked either way! And my fundie friends would reject me just as hard. Might as well go with the way that allows for the most fuc*COUGH*freedom. 3. I'd long had creeping suspicions that the Bible was complete bullshit, regardless how progressive the interpretation, and that the universalists had no better leg to stand on than the fundamentalists. 4. As a fundamentalist I'd long thought liberal/universalist Christians were pussies engaging in what was tantamount to heresy, and would roast hotter than even atheists for having fucked with the true gospel. My disdain for them didn't disappear overnight, and certainly not during the throes of my deconversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 As a fundamentalist I'd long thought liberal/universalist Christians were pussies engaging in what was tantamount to heresy, and would roast hotter than even atheists for having fucked with the true gospel. My disdain for them didn't disappear overnight, and certainly not during the throes of my deconversion. I tried to be a good liberal Christian, but it was this attitude, which I share and was deeply ingrained, made me eventually turn away in disgust. To me the liberal churches were not serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 For me, I stayed for so long because of my initial conversion experience. I couldn't (and can't) deny God because of it. However, I now question the bible and wonder if people just use the bible to explain the inexplicable. I dunno. Anyway, people stay because they believe God and their bad experiences are two separate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 For me, I stayed for so long because of my initial conversion experience. I couldn't (and can't) deny God because of it. However, I now question the bible and wonder if people just use the bible to explain the inexplicable. I dunno. Anyway, people stay because they believe God and their bad experiences are two separate things. I am of the mind that says religion started out as a way to explain natural phenomenon when humans had not yet fully grasped the study of science. The more we have grown in our understanding of science, the more we have demoted the role and influence of the gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 For me, I stayed for so long because of my initial conversion experience. I couldn't (and can't) deny God because of it. However, I now question the bible and wonder if people just use the bible to explain the inexplicable. I dunno. Anyway, people stay because they believe God and their bad experiences are two separate things. You will get past this eventually. I was the same and it really is/was all in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I am of the mind that says religion started out as a way to explain natural phenomenon when humans had not yet fully grasped the study of science. The more we have grown in our understanding of science, the more we have demoted the role and influence of the gods. I think also that people wanted to make shit cooler than it really was. Your bad-ass dead uncle still lives on, transmitting his bad-assedness from beyond the grave. The platypus has a mind of its own and can communicate to you in your dreams. Shit like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 To me a survivor of the cult is someone who is free of the damn cult, not someone who is still in one being victimized. To me, there isn't hardly an iota of difference in the Southern Baptists and the Independent Baptists. Its still the same basic crap. Probably I will stay out of there. Otherwise it could get ugly. It certainly demonstrates the power of indoctrination. The feeling of being a ship without an anchor is too much for many people and they cling to just about anything for security. From what I've observed, most people will not make a dramatic change in belief until they feel they have more to gain by changing than from staying the same. In time, some of them may reach the point where they no longer want to carry around their acquired beliefs, which have ceased to provide security and now represent unwanted baggage. It's probably best to stay away in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 It's probably best to stay away in this case. Words of wisdom, as usual from you centauri. I am happy to have you as my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 which have ceased to provide security and now represent unwanted baggage. Oh hell, the last couple of years I wanted out badly, but couldn't get out. The fear of demons and hell was just that strong. I wanted nothing more than to fuck, sleep in on Sunday, and not have to ever again give a shit about God or satan or any of that shit. Those few years were anguishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutate Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I went to a Methodist church a few sundays ago. I had been curious about it for a while and thought what the heck, lets see what its like. I'd heard they were more liberal and non-literalist than evangelical and into social issues, anti-war etc. to be honest, it creeped me out a bit. There was a boy on piano who looked really sullen and grumpy, and the minister seemed kind of, mischeivous, with twinkly eyes and a kind of witty tv presenter personality. The congregation were small, old people, a few couples and kids. Probably 40 at most. When he was giving communion, the minister gave everyone this intense stare while giving them the bread, that was supposed to look loving and personal, (he said "this is given for you" over and over to each person as he did it). I dunno, I was just feeling down, my feelings were through the "prism" of me being down. Had i still been Xian though I probably would have felt my bad feelings were intuition it was a bad church or something. The sermon was more philosophical and witty than anything really impassioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 I think the Fundamentalist Independent Baptist Churches that I came out of are almost uniquely twisted. As crazy as I can see some of the other denominations are - with speaking in tongues and all that - The IBFs are about the most misogynist group of people I can imagine. I honestly think that women have a really, really tough time. There are all kinds of ideas about the inferiority of women that are planted. Being raised with this shit, it becomes a part of who you are - with the resulting bad self-image that never entirely goes away. All thought is made to be sinful and the world is nothing but a battlefield with Satan and God. They insist that evolution is a lie and literally believe everything in the Bible. Biblical scholarship is unknown to them or "of the devil". They are not interested in history or science. It is not even historical Christianity. This mess came out of the late 19th and early 20th century -- but to hear a fundy - they were the original church that hasn't changed. I don't know how the hell I ever managed to free myself to the extent that I have and to see through this charade for what it is when NONE of my relatives managed to. Maybe I was more serious? I know that my siblings who hated it at the time we had to go to church much more than I did are still Christians. I bought into it more at the time. I really believed it then. I know it. Contrary to the excellent advice I have been given I can't seem to stay away from there. I want to help. I really do. I had no one to help me. Maybe that is my motivation. I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstInTheDance Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Deva, I feel your pain. My former church sounds much the same. I'm also the only one in my family who escaped - and yet, like you, I was the most devout sibling. That's probably why it was me. I really thought about it, studied it, agonized over it, questioned it from every angle. I think most people who are able to stay Christian are the ones who don't really look too deeply. Or maybe it was that I was more sensitive? I don't know. But I don't think you'll be able to help. Unless you know someone is on the fence? Most people don't deconvert easily, and you may get hurt for your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hey, Firstinthedance I haven't seen you around here in awhile. Nice to see you back! You are probably right about not being able to help these people. To me they are just so obviously brainwashed and its hard to understand why they don't see it. What people say does bother me. I am very greatly affected by slights and stuff although intellectually I can brush it aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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