Galien Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Any genuine person would have to get the shits with the loveless church system at some point. Even if you did believe with all your heart, you couldn't stay in the system without it corrupting you with cynicism. I think the only thing church leaders do actually believe is that they have a divine unction to tell the rest of us how it should be done. Any genuine love or concern they had for others is overtaken by the power afforded them by the system. Anything pure or kind in them just fades away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I just had an amazing experience yesterday with regard to this topic, though I do not feel right posting about it as it is a personal issue for this person, let me just say yes. Definitively there are church leaders, even the most fundie, who do not believe. Props to the person I am referencing for being honest with himself. It must have been hard after building a career, a bible college education, friends, colleagues, as a fundie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 19, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2011 I was lucky enough to get to know Charles Templeton over the phone before he died. I talked to him extensively about religion 10 years ago.He spent hours on the phone with me. He sent me his own autographed book for a present to me.It was the first book I read that made a whole lot of sense to me. His story is sooo interesting. He was Billy Grahams best friend. Templeton warned Graham that it was ‘intellectual suicide’ to not question the Bible and to go on preaching God’s Word as authoritative. Following is the sad account of the life of a once prominent and successful evangelist, his slide into unbelief and his rejection of Christianity. In 1996, the book Farewell to God was published for all the world to see the author, Charles Templeton, claim: ‘I oppose the Christian Church because, for all the good it sometimes does, it presumes to speak in the name of God and to propound and advocate beliefs that are outdated, demonstrably untrue, and often, in their various manifestations, deleterious to individuals and to society.As this story unfolds, you will see the devastating results of compromising man’s theories with God’s Word, beginning in Genesis. He was generally acknowledged to be the most versatile of the new young evangelists. Templeton soon rose to prominence, even surpassing another dynamic young preacher, Billy Graham. In 1946, he was listed among those best used of God by the National Association of Evangelicals. In his autobiography, Farewell to God, Charles Templeton lists his ‘reasons for rejecting the Christian faith’. I will always remember the kindness of this man................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HistorySkptc Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Thanks for referencing the Templeton book, Margee. I will have to get a copy. That's cool he helped you out! As someone else mentioned the Dan Dennett study, I will just link to the article: http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP08122150.pdf It's quite fascinating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I remember reading a BG book where he said that the retention of new converts from his crusades were like 15% after 1 year and less than 10% after 3 years. From my experiences in the evangelical circles, the call to new converts at alter calls were always subsidized by re dedications just so the preacher would not look like an idiot. Many of the BG crusades, he asked for a believer to accompany the new converts and the numbers look good on camera. You see everyone saying the sinner's prayer but 50% or more are rededs. This of course takes into account only those that use this method of alter calls. Catechism folk are not deemed true xians as there was no emotional ball your eyes out-spirit of true repentance et al. even though in catechism, you are asked questions as to your belief, making a positive affirmation. I think that when you are a pastor and you see the youth leaving and end up preaching to an aging demographic, it must be disheartening and lead one to question the validity of all they believed was truth. Some I think simply go with the flow and make the best of a bad situation. Maybe this is why they slip in an evangelical bent at weddings and funerals. The dedications and/or infant baptisms IMO are merely just holding onto traditions and more for the grandparents to show off their grandchildren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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