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The Ledge


Guest MadameX
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Guest Xtech

Have you heard about it? Looking forward to the dialog it is sure to spark in this country.

 

A thriller in which a battle of philosophies between a fundamentalist Christian and an atheist escalates into a lethal battle of wills.

 

 

 

 

Director:

Matthew Chapman

Writer:

Matthew Chapman

Stars:

Charlie Hunnam, Terrence Howard and Patrick Wilson

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1535970/

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I watched it through Sundance Now online. It's pretty good! I found it to be a dark, sad, but thought provoking flick. I would recommend it.

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I watched it through Sundance Now online. It's pretty good! I found it to be a dark, sad, but thought provoking flick. I would recommend it.

 

 

I watched the trailer........looks real good! See if I can get this today! Thanks for posting this!:grin:

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I've watched it also. I agree it's dark (which I like) and sad (I had hoped for a different ending -- but deep down, I knew better! ). It's a movie that really stuck with me. Even after watching it a couple of weeks ago, at the oddest times, little snippets of it keep popping up in my mind.

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This isn't spiritual.

Oh? What do you mean when you say "spiritual?"

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I mean that this is a thread about a movie with an atheist and belongs in the Critic's Corner. Don't be a dick.

Really? I ask you a question and YOU call me a dick?

 

That's not spiritual either, LH.

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Wow! This could have been a nice discussion about what it means to be "spiritual" in a non-christian context, especially if one is a humanist or an atheist/agnostic. I don't understand your reaction, LH.

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Rejecting God doesn't mean you aren't spiritual. Therefore believing that there are no gods (atheist) doesn't mean that you aren't spiritual either. heathenfail

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Rejecting God doesn't mean you aren't spiritual. Therefore believing that there are no gods (atheist) doesn't mean that you aren't spiritual either. heathenfail

 

Even when I was a fundamentalist Christian in seminary, I never found the term "spiritual" very useful. It's so dependent on one's own personal belief system or world view. It's one of those words you kind've think you know the meaning of but whenever you try to strictly define it the meaning slips away. Dictionary dot com has about 12 definitions for the word.

 

Personally, I don't mind using the word "spiritual" to indicate a person's attentiveness to an inner life - intellect, emotion and will. I don't believe in a spirit in the sense of an entity that inhabits a meat machine and lives on after the body dies. But I do believe that there are private aspects of our minds - a purely subjective aspect of our experiences that provides overtones and texture to how we experience reality that is ours and only ours. Only the most gifted communicators can express this inner reality adequately to others ; and then only partially.

 

But, to me, the word "Spirit" or "spiritual" employs an artifact of a past that is filled with gods, demons, spirits, sprites and mythical underworlds and transcendent kingdoms of glory. However, I can't think of a better word to utilize and don't mind using the word "spirit" as long as it is understood that "spirit," to me, is a metaphor for the intertwining of emotion, mind, and will.

 

What does this have to do with the movie, "The Ledge?" I think all the elements that constitute a spiritual life were present in the final decision made by the main character. An imperfect man finds that he loves and values the life of a person he finds beautiful on so many levels that he feels responsible to try to save her even if it means giving up his life to prevent hers from being taken.

 

Is that "spiritual" even though the man is an atheist? And why would someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife even think twice about doing something so - err - Christ-like?

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Guest Xtech

oddbird what a great reply. And sorry of this topic does not belong in the spirituality sub-forum. I have a hard time figuring out where these topics belong sometimes. There is a lot of overlap. If I have made an error, apologies.

 

I certainly put myself in the atheist camp yet I also describe myself as a spiritual person. Agree the word is imperfect. As is the word atheist. Language is imperfect, but it's all we got, especially here on an internet forum.

 

Spiritual is a sloppy term for an emotional state. I'll describe mine: a sense of wonder and awe at the world I find myself in, of appreciation for the positive and even horrible things that exist. Practitioner of extreme gratitude, for life is very short and at my age I feel I have attained a certain wisdom about it: it is way way too short, and I am surprised to find myself on the downhill slope of it. Life is full of meaning and purpose but I am humble about the scale of it: it is meaningful to the people around me, and I serve them with the intention of making life better for them, with incredible appreciation for the opportunity to do so.

 

Sorry for the treacly writing. Oddbird expresses himself so much better than I do, but I needed to respond here.

 

People have observed than I am more spiritual than most Christians they know. Fine, I can see how those who get really deep into the mental pretzel-twisting that comes with trying to live that wacky theology become very legalistic in their struggles to make practice-able the murk that is the Christian Bible. I know many atheists who are deeply wise, wondrously grateful, and inspired individuals. Open-minded observation of nature can do that to a person. A worldview free of the pretense of 'knowing God' apparently leads one to a more generous and kind attitude towards our human foibles.

 

Can atheism be spiritual? Oh yes. And many Christians who have been raised in a bubble apparently do not know that. Can a movie like this reach those prejudiced people? That is the director's hope. There are many preconceptions about atheists, about any class of people outside the Christian Tribe that can be smashed via movies, perhaps better than a book or an internet debate can do.

 

Hooray for The Ledge.

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oddbird what a great reply. And sorry of this topic does not belong in the spirituality sub-forum. I have a hard time figuring out where these topics belong sometimes. There is a lot of overlap. If I have made an error, apologies.

 

I certainly put myself in the atheist camp yet I also describe myself as a spiritual person. Agree the word is imperfect. As is the word atheist. Language is imperfect, but it's all we got, especially here on an internet forum.

 

Spiritual is a sloppy term for an emotional state. I'll describe mine: a sense of wonder and awe at the world I find myself in, of appreciation for the positive and even horrible things that exist. Practitioner of extreme gratitude, for life is very short and at my age I feel I have attained a certain wisdom about it: it is way way too short, and I am surprised to find myself on the downhill slope of it. Life is full of meaning and purpose but I am humble about the scale of it: it is meaningful to the people around me, and I serve them with the intention of making life better for them, with incredible appreciation for the opportunity to do so.

 

Sorry for the treacly writing. Oddbird expresses himself so much better than I do, but I needed to respond here.

 

People have observed than I am more spiritual than most Christians they know. Fine, I can see how those who get really deep into the mental pretzel-twisting that comes with trying to live that wacky theology become very legalistic in their struggles to make practice-able the murk that is the Christian Bible. I know many atheists who are deeply wise, wondrously grateful, and inspired individuals. Open-minded observation of nature can do that to a person. A worldview free of the pretense of 'knowing God' apparently leads one to a more generous and kind attitude towards our human foibles.

 

Can atheism be spiritual? Oh yes. And many Christians who have been raised in a bubble apparently do not know that. Can a movie like this reach those prejudiced people? That is the director's hope. There are many preconceptions about atheists, about any class of people outside the Christian Tribe that can be smashed via movies, perhaps better than a book or an internet debate can do.

 

Hooray for The Ledge.

 

I think you've expressed yourself quite beautifully, Xtech!!

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Rejecting God doesn't mean you aren't spiritual. Therefore believing that there are no gods (atheist) doesn't mean that you aren't spiritual either. heathenfail

"This area is for those who have left Christianity for another form of theism or spirituality (Deism, Paganism, Wicca, Great Spirit, The Force, Buddhism, etc.). "

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Rejecting God doesn't mean you aren't spiritual. Therefore believing that there are no gods (atheist) doesn't mean that you aren't spiritual either. heathenfail

"This area is for those who have left Christianity for another form of theism or spirituality (Deism, Paganism, Wicca, Great Spirit, The Force, Buddhism, etc.). "

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they reject spirituality, it means they reject theism. There is a difference! I think... >.>

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Looking forward to seeing this now... it has the guy from Sons of Anarchy as the atheist lead. It's available to view on SundanceNow but it's 10 bucks. Better price than an arthouse theatre actually if you watch with a friend or partner.

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  • 4 weeks later...

"The Crow Road".

 

Scottish novel-- developed into a 3-part tv miniseries.

 

Interesting film about Atheism, belief, and a bit of coming-of-age and murder mystery.

 

The end is interesting, being about how a young man is stuck between the religious and completely non-religious sides of his family is a sort of Agnostic/Spiritual center point.

 

Read part of it for my British Literature Class last year.

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