The Brain And Spirituality

[par4dcourse]

I'm jumping in late, but I'm reading Michael Shermer's "The Believing Brain" and thought it was relevant. He makes some excellent points as to not only where but how the brain creates "beliefs". It's all neurons and electro-chemical reactions, even ethereal and spiritual sensations. Good read.

(Me, a reductionist? Don't be silly.)

[Noggy]

I've been leaning toward that path too. It seems like Buddha and such was onto something when they said everything is "connected". I really like reading Spinoza as well. It seems to make a lot of sense to me. I'm not really sure how to pursue it, though.

Well, since you say you are leaning, then you do have that something to look to. As far as how to pursue it, that really becomes an individual thing. Try various things, but with one understanding: there is no single right way. The key is what works for you. The various 'means to the end', are not the end in themselves, and in religion the means often become the end itself, in a substitute sort of way. The means are about you exposing and developing that 'something' inside of you and giving it space to grow. It's about creating spaces on the internal landscape, in order to come to a deeper understanding, a deeper relationship if you will of that aspect of ourselves.

 

Reading inspiring material can help to set the mind in a place you can explore that. Music, nature, chant, dance, etc, all these things are about creating that space. That in essence is all that religion does in this regard for the spiritual. It creates a space for meditation. Additionally, in the social aspects of it, it creates support for the individual in the pursuit of that interior development. But the negative of course is that in any group, group dynamics come into play and power struggles and whatnot work contrary to support.

 

You ask for a place to start? Just go find some quite space, if possible out in nature alone somewhere, and just set aside all other thoughts to the world and just experience that 'something' in you in that space. Don't think about it, or anything at all, except for that one moment. Be in that moment. Start there.

 

I've always been a nature person. I like hiking and caving and doing things in the outdoors. Boy scout. I found a real quiet place on the docks that stretches out over the river near my house, and it is entirely tranquil. I will sit there and try to clear my mind, but my ADHD kicks in and I can't really do it very well. I don't really feel anything except for peace and contentedness.

[Antlerman]

I will sit there and try to clear my mind, but my ADHD kicks in and I can't really do it very well.

Actually, to learn how to mediate will help with ADHD. You will find it to be rather challenging once you try it, your brain will suddenly start saying in essence, "hey, think about this, think about that!" It's called the monkey-brain. It just doesn't want to sit still. What you do is don't get anxious about it, just understand it's normal and calmly just relax it back into a place of quite - calmly, gently, over and over again every time it starts sneaking itself back in. Tell yourself all you're doing is temporarily suspending your thoughts, not 'stopping them'. As you learn to do this, the control you gain over your mind and clarity of thought is phenomenally powerful. It's just learning to clear the clutter, that incessant chattering of the monkey that is only noise, not actually useful. It's just the brain trying to be busy, and its not actually productive thought at all.

 

So here why it is useful in spiritual experience. Because it clears the chattering noise, it clears the useless debris that is always there clouding sight. It is like opening the window and seeing the world without the dust speckles and rain spatters on the glass. It allows you to breath the air, to see the colors, to hear the sounds, to feel the breeze, to draw it in and radiate it out from you. You are part of the world, you see the world, you hear. You are clear. It is your nature. Before and beyond all the thoughts you only think are you, you think define the world. Now rest and be in that place. Breathe in the world, exhale the world.

 

Again, don't fight your monkey brain, just calmly sit it down and temporarily let it be still.

[Ouroboros]

Actually, to learn how to mediate will help with ADHD.

Mediate what?

 

I assume you mean meditate. So far, mediating between my kids when they fight has not helped my ADD one bit.

[Antlerman]

Actually, to learn how to mediate will help with ADHD.

Mediate what?

 

I assume you mean meditate. So far, mediating between my kids when they fight has not helped my ADD one bit.

Sorry, there was a monkey chattering in my ear at the moment and it cause me to typo.

 

I guess I only speak for myself then. When I started doing this the ability to focus just in general improved 100 fold. Much calmer, much less anxious. When I don't meditate, the distractedness and anxiousness comes back. It's like exercise, except for the brain. Keeps the muscle control much more in tune, so to speak.

[Antlerman]

+1

Oh, you meant the post explaining Panentheism. You identify with that as well?

I have. For quite some time. I know have have expressed that directly in several posts in the past, and in many other posts I have hinted to it by referencing Nature/Reality as "God" (as a concept of something larger, more impressive and more powerful than I).

I knew part of this but thought you speaking more in terms of pantheism. Pantentheism does not equate God with as nature itself, but God is 'in' nature. Nature is a manifestation of the Divine, and God is therefore 'in' nature.

 

And our consciousness was "given" to us by this World, or Universe (not the universe as in the finite sphere as a result of big bang, but the Universe, as in the infinite series of universes within a multi-verse or planes or whatever).

Yes, this is how I see it. All that exists is an expression of that underlying Ground. Everything thing that rises, rises from That as Source, and is moving towards That as Goal or Summit. From the One to the many, from the many to the One.

 

It makes me think of that story of the Indras Joseph Campbell told:

 

The boy says, "Indras before you. I have seen them come and go, come and go. Just think, Vishnu sleeps in the cosmic ocean, and the lotus of the universe grows from his navel. On the lotus sits Brahma, the creator. Brahma opens his eyes, and a world comes into being, governed by an Indra. Brahma closes his eyes, and a world goes out of being. The life of a Brahma is 432,000 years. When he dies, the lotus goes back, and another lotus is formed, and another Brahma. Then think of the galaxies beyond galaxies in infinite space, each a lotus, with a Brahma sitting on it, opening his eyes, closing his eyes. And Indras? There may be wise men in your court who would volunteer to count the drops of water in the oceans or the grains of sand on the beaches, but no one would count those Brahmin, let alone those Indras."

 

I like the idea of multiverses. It is endless, infinite expression of being coming into infinite forms of existence.

 

I started to identify with panentheism after reading an article that explained that atheists are a form of pantheists. I thought it was too limiting with just seeing this world/universe as everything, and accept that very likely possibility of a World/Universe beyond this one, and encapsulating this one.

For me it frees the spiritual experience of God from all definitions, from all forms and allows it to be in everything. It quite literally frees God. Meister Ekhart, though a mystic in the Catholic church, expressed it incredibly well in the quote I share all the time,

 

"I pray God to make me free of God, for [His] unconditioned Being is above God and all distinctions."

 

It's not only satisfying in a cosmological sense, but in a spiritual sense.

[Ouroboros]

Actually, to learn how to mediate will help with ADHD.

Mediate what?

 

I assume you mean meditate. So far, mediating between my kids when they fight has not helped my ADD one bit.

Sorry, there was a monkey chattering in my ear at the moment and it cause me to typo.

 

I guess I only speak for myself then. When I started doing this the ability to focus just in general improved 100 fold. Much calmer, much less anxious. When I don't meditate, the distractedness and anxiousness comes back. It's like exercise, except for the brain. Keeps the muscle control much more in tune, so to speak.

No, you don't speak for yourself. It helped me to take a break at my working chair, putting the headphones on, closing my eyes, and just listen to music for 10-15 minutes. It sorts out all the thoughts. But hell if this can be done (socially accepted) at a working place. You're assumed to be a machine.

[Ouroboros]

I knew part of this but thought you speaking more in terms of pantheism. Pantentheism does not equate God with as nature itself, but God is 'in' nature. Nature is a manifestation of the Divine, and God is therefore 'in' nature.

Yeah. I might have the concepts confused, and it's hard to know the exact definition of a label. I just read up a little more on panentheism, and realized that I don't eagree with some of the things. Last time I tried to figure out what it was, 3-4 years ago, the definitions seemed more fitting to what I believe.

 

For instance, I don't believe God is a personal god.

 

And my view is that all that exists is essentially God. Like pantheism.

 

But I believe all that exists extends beyond this universe, as in multi-verse. And I believe this universe spawned from that overarching and eternal multi-verse. Not by conscientious thoughts, planning, or intent, but just as an effect of an infinite process.

 

When I first studied panentheism, it seemed to fit that, but reading a bit more (today), I realize it doesn't. It's weird. When I read about it last time, panentheism was grouped within the non-theisms, i.e. no belief in a personal God (as I interpreted it), but now panentheism includes the idea of a personal God which is separate from reality, i.e. a different kind of deism!?

 

And our consciousness was "given" to us by this World, or Universe (not the universe as in the finite sphere as a result of big bang, but the Universe, as in the infinite series of universes within a multi-verse or planes or whatever).

Yes, this is how I see it. All that exists is an expression of that underlying Ground. Everything thing that rises, rises from That as Source, and is moving towards That as Goal or Summit. From the One to the many, from the many to the One.

Yes!

 

It makes me think of that story of the Indras Joseph Campbell told:

 

The boy says, "Indras before you. I have seen them come and go, come and go. Just think, Vishnu sleeps in the cosmic ocean, and the lotus of the universe grows from his navel. On the lotus sits Brahma, the creator. Brahma opens his eyes, and a world comes into being, governed by an Indra. Brahma closes his eyes, and a world goes out of being. The life of a Brahma is 432,000 years. When he dies, the lotus goes back, and another lotus is formed, and another Brahma. Then think of the galaxies beyond galaxies in infinite space, each a lotus, with a Brahma sitting on it, opening his eyes, closing his eyes. And Indras? There may be wise men in your court who would volunteer to count the drops of water in the oceans or the grains of sand on the beaches, but no one would count those Brahmin, let alone those Indras."

Exactly.

 

I suspect Joseph Campbell has influenced many. And I can hear his voice speaking those words when I read it.

 

I like the idea of multiverses. It is endless, infinite expression of being coming into infinite forms of existence.

Amen. Praise life!

 

I started to identify with panentheism after reading an article that explained that atheists are a form of pantheists. I thought it was too limiting with just seeing this world/universe as everything, and accept that very likely possibility of a World/Universe beyond this one, and encapsulating this one.

For me it frees the spiritual experience of God from all definitions, from all forms and allows it to be in everything. It quite literally frees God. Meister Ekhart, though a mystic in the Catholic church, expressed it incredibly well in the quote I share all the time,

 

"I pray God to make me free of God, for [His] unconditioned Being is above God and all distinctions."

Right. And that what frustrates me quite a bit with Christians who come here. Their image of God was created by people 2,000 years ago, and the people today are just doing Rank Xerox-ing (if you remember that term) that old image instead of looking truly for what God really is. They can understand the thought of someone existed before this world (which is not logical necessary whatever they say), but have a hard time understanding or accepting that something existed before this world (which would be necessary if "someone" existed, so they deny the necessary but accept the imaginary).

 

It's not only satisfying in a cosmological sense, but in a spiritual sense.

I have not reached a very high level of spiritual sense of it all, but I do know what mean. I feel that I'm not in a great need of the spiritual expression, but again, I do respect anyone who needs it. I don't consider this type of spirituality to be woo-woo. Woo-woo is when someone takes on belief of mystic and magical thinking for the sake of other people's words and direction, i.e. religious dogmatism and such. If you know what I mean.

 

Another thought about all this, the analogy of "dying from one self" also makes a lot of sense to me (probably more remnant influence from Joseph Campbell). Coming to the place of thought where I am, couldn't have happened without first losing it all. So it's not only a matter of killing God, but killing our own image of God. Our own spiritual structure, which is a big part of self-identity, had to die, before we could move on with a new structure.

[Antlerman]

Actually, to learn how to mediate will help with ADHD.

Mediate what?

 

I assume you mean meditate. So far, mediating between my kids when they fight has not helped my ADD one bit.

Sorry, there was a monkey chattering in my ear at the moment and it cause me to typo.

 

I guess I only speak for myself then. When I started doing this the ability to focus just in general improved 100 fold. Much calmer, much less anxious. When I don't meditate, the distractedness and anxiousness comes back. It's like exercise, except for the brain. Keeps the muscle control much more in tune, so to speak.

No, you don't speak for yourself. It helped me to take a break at my working chair, putting the headphones on, closing my eyes, and just listen to music for 10-15 minutes. It sorts out all the thoughts. But hell if this can be done (socially accepted) at a working place. You're assumed to be a machine.

I'm a huge advocate of music to relax the mind. I have an entire temple to music in my basement: tube amplifiers, turntable, vinyl, high end gear, lighting, etc. As good as that is what I have found to have a different and more lasting effect is to sit in silence and to suspend all thoughts, not to think of anything even passively. It is just sitting in complete quite of mind itself. If I do this for even 10 minutes before I head off to work, the entire day is affected by it. Everything I do, every task, every conversation is clearer and more focused, more even emotions, and frankly as a result of that clarity, there is what appears a marked increase in intelligence itself. It's not that your IQ increased, but you essentially are clearing the debris and allowing what IQ that is there to actually be accessed.

 

I try to approach it as preventative practice, not a reactive response to try to mediate once I'm already on edge from something. To bring the calm with you into it, prevents the impact and severity of turmoil from overwhelming or eating away at you. So to add, in the same way that there is your intelligence alone that suddenly becomes much more accessible, so too that spiritual nature through the same means. It's simply clearing debris, clearing clutter, clearing noise. It allows the emotion nature, the intelligence, and the spiritual awareness, the sense of connection and grounding in ourselves to be recognized, to be accessed, to then be realized into every part of us. We grow, we evolve. But its an exercise, just like tuning your body is. Don't do anything, and it will become covered in dust, so to speak.

 

One other comparison, in listening to music, in my system, every component I add to it is about reducing superfluous noise. Just by getting rid of noise you didn't even recognize was there because you were so used to always hearing it and "filtering" it with your brain, you suddenly hear depth and dimension and quality in the music that was always there, but masked behind the debris. All you do is clear the debris, and look what's there! Why? The brain. Back to this discussion. The brain. If the brain doesn't have to expend its energies 'filtering' the clutter in order to receive and hear, or see, what is there, and then consequently allow the body to experience it, then it becomes more a clear lens, like a pure telescope to peer beyond the interference and let the light shine straight in.

 

That's how I see the brain and spirituality working together. The brain doesn't manufacture it, but processes what is there into us. This is why contemplative practices are always a part of spiritual experience. It's frees the mind, not pump up juices and manufactures it. That's like saying my hi-end stereo gear artificially creates the music. No, it just simply allows it to come through, and the better tuned it is, the deeper, the richer the information that was always there is now allowed to become freed and experienced by the listener.

[Ouroboros]

I'm a huge advocate of music to relax the mind. I have an entire temple to music in my basement: tube amplifiers, turntable, vinyl, high end gear, lighting, etc. As good as that is what I have found to have a different and more lasting effect is to sit in silence and to suspend all thoughts, not to think of anything even passively. It is just sitting in complete quite of mind itself. If I do this for even 10 minutes before I head off to work, the entire day is affected by it. Everything I do, every task, every conversation is clearer and more focused, more even emotions, and frankly as a result of that clarity, there is what appears a marked increase in intelligence itself. It's not that your IQ increased, but you essentially are clearing the debris and allowing what IQ that is there to actually be accessed.

That's cool. A whole room dedicated to absorbing music. I have to do with noise-cancelling headphones and try to find a spot in the house that doesn't have any traffic of people at the moment. Our house is constantly visited by people, workers, etc. I have to use my ADD to be able to work. Multitasking while programming is Hell, but that's how it is here. I have to plan for being interrupted, sometimes three times in a minute. Dogs barking, doorbell ringing, phone ringing, someone walking by my door and just wonders how I'm doing, or ...

 

So when I can find a spot, put on my headphones, listen to some ambient music, my mind travel to distant places far away from this world.

 

I try to approach it as preventative practice, not a reactive response to try to mediate once I'm already on edge from something. To bring the calm with you into it, prevents the impact and severity of turmoil from overwhelming or eating away at you. So to add, in the same way that there is your intelligence alone that suddenly becomes much more accessible, so too that spiritual nature through the same means. It's simply clearing debris, clearing clutter, clearing noise. It allows the emotion nature, the intelligence, and the spiritual awareness, the sense of connection and grounding in ourselves to be recognized, to be accessed, to then be realized into every part of us. We grow, we evolve. But its an exercise, just like tuning your body is. Don't do anything, and it will become covered in dust, so to speak.

I know exactly what you mean, and I have done it a couple of times. And I love it.

 

One other comparison, in listening to music, in my system, every component I add to it is about reducing superfluous noise. Just by getting rid of noise you didn't even recognize was there because you were so used to always hearing it and "filtering" it with your brain, you suddenly hear depth and dimension and quality in the music that was always there, but masked behind the debris. All you do is clear the debris, and look what's there! Why? The brain. Back to this discussion. The brain. If the brain doesn't have to expend its energies 'filtering' the clutter in order to receive and hear, or see, what is there, and then consequently allow the body to experience it, then it becomes more a clear lens, like a pure telescope to peer beyond the interference and let the light shine straight in.

Interesting. I never thought about that.

 

That's how I see the brain and spirituality working together. The brain doesn't manufacture it, but processes what is there into us. This is why contemplative practices are always a part of spiritual experience. It's frees the mind, not pump up juices and manufactures it. That's like saying my hi-end stereo gear artificially creates the music. No, it just simply allows it to come through, and the better tuned it is, the deeper, the richer the information that was always there is now allowed to become and experience of the listener.

I know what you're saying and understand it.

 

The problem is that the word "spiritual" is understood a bit different by many (or most people). Spiritual is something relating to things that are beyond natural. While these things are most definitely natural in essence, but yet "magical" in a sense. It's about experiences beyond our normal, daily routine (perhaps super-normal would be a word for it ). But unfortunately, the word spiritual makes people think in angels, demons, an eternal soul that connects to a personal God, etc.

 

With that being said, I do understand in what sense and context you are using the word "spiritual," and I do agree with it.

[Antlerman]

I'm a huge advocate of music to relax the mind. I have an entire temple to music in my basement: tube amplifiers, turntable, vinyl, high end gear, lighting, etc. As good as that is what I have found to have a different and more lasting effect is to sit in silence and to suspend all thoughts, not to think of anything even passively. It is just sitting in complete quite of mind itself. If I do this for even 10 minutes before I head off to work, the entire day is affected by it. Everything I do, every task, every conversation is clearer and more focused, more even emotions, and frankly as a result of that clarity, there is what appears a marked increase in intelligence itself. It's not that your IQ increased, but you essentially are clearing the debris and allowing what IQ that is there to actually be accessed.

That's cool. A whole room dedicated to absorbing music. I have to do with noise-cancelling headphones and try to find a spot in the house that doesn't have any traffic of people at the moment.

The room is undergoing some newer remodeling but you can get the gist:

 

 

 

 

Like I said, it's a bit of temple....

[Noggy]

I'm a huge advocate of music to relax the mind. I have an entire temple to music in my basement: tube amplifiers, turntable, vinyl, high end gear, lighting, etc. As good as that is what I have found to have a different and more lasting effect is to sit in silence and to suspend all thoughts, not to think of anything even passively. It is just sitting in complete quite of mind itself. If I do this for even 10 minutes before I head off to work, the entire day is affected by it. Everything I do, every task, every conversation is clearer and more focused, more even emotions, and frankly as a result of that clarity, there is what appears a marked increase in intelligence itself. It's not that your IQ increased, but you essentially are clearing the debris and allowing what IQ that is there to actually be accessed.

That's cool. A whole room dedicated to absorbing music. I have to do with noise-cancelling headphones and try to find a spot in the house that doesn't have any traffic of people at the moment.

The room is undergoing some newer remodeling but you can get the gist:

 

 

 

 

Like I said, it's a bit of temple....

 

 

 

Thats the most groovy room I've ever seen. Mad props.

 

And I have your left and right and center channel speakers. But instead of the wood finish, I got the silver and black ones.