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The Questions We May Never Know


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Not having the answers scares me most of all i think, mostly because i've been taught the ones where god is going to send me to hell if i don't follow the bible. I guess i'm just wondering if this fear of the unknown grips anyone else. Sorry i haven't been on in awhile, i've been trying to forget this stuff on vacation, but in my current location there's an abundance of time to think.

 

I guess it's just strange....i mean i think about how it all started big bang, spontaneous appearance. Either way doesn't that imply there's a god or gods? I mean i know it's equally as likely there is no god (After all why couldn't this all just appear? Is that any less logical than saying a god put it here?) Either way though there are things i don't understand. That i can't comprehend. I guess i'm afraid that means that there is someone who can comprehend these things, who did, and who made our world. Not even that there's necessarily something spiritual to it, but that there is a god and my fears are real. Again i realize there's no reason to pick on the christian faith, i guess because i'm so saturated in it i become afraid it was correct. I also know that Richard Dawkins makes the valid claim that adding god, an even more improbable being, to the question of how the world began it just makes it more complicated

 

I'm scared because no one can provide me the answers i seek, i know i can't understand certain things, i can't comprehend certain things. Why do we seek meaning if the world is meaningless? How did our universe and existence start, wouldn't it take something impossible to explain it (by a naturalistic definition)? Since it (god or event) started all these things and laws we live by?

 

Uncertainty and ambiguity scares me, makes me ask what if questions. I mean in the grand scheme of things nothing really matters does it? Even if there is a god, what does this little drama on earth accomplish? Is there any such thing as accomplishments?

 

How do i know that i'm not just denying "the truth" when i don't really know some of the most important questions in life?

 

The one thing that nags at me, is not knowing, it drives my fear, the fear of the unknown, fear that someone set the laws of physics in place, and in turn also erected moral laws....IE the bible or some other law

 

I know this probably sounds silly, but when i know i don't know something, i can't help worrying there's something else. There's little voices (figuratively of course) telling me that christianity is true, however i don't know if that's the years of brainwashing or if it's the "truth". I guess i had a time when i completely didn't believe in it, i was an agnostic.....well agnostic i don't know, where i was sure of it. Sure there were those what if i'm wrong moments, but they were more born of years of torture, these thoughts.....well i don't know. I'm really confused right now.....been thinking too much i guess, but these are valid questions aren't they?

 

I don't know, it's all so frightening i'm talking to people from release and reclaim, and when i get home a psychiatrist, but there are some things that still bother me, i'm afraid that because i don't understand, that i must submit to the knowledge of something else. I intellectually know that there are other definitions of god, other religions, but the years of it being beaten into my head that there is only one way, my constant fearful thoughts telling me it's right weigh heavy on me. It doesn't help that i constantly see struggles with christians/debunking. It seems like christians get it more than anyone else, i guess this makes sense because they are proselytizing more than anyone else, but still it seems like muslims, jews, or hindus barely get any debunking/criticism in comparison. Again it's in correlation with how widespread and vocal they are, but still it just feels like they get it more.

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This might not be the forum for this topic, but I know how you feel.

 

But the thing is that the same logical problems that contradict bibleGod contradict a lot of other type of "mora" gods like that. If there was a God that expected moral laws to apply to humans, wouldn't he have told us? And wouldn't he have told us better? And if he was just, he couldn't punish us eternally for finite sins, etc. It's just really unlikely that god, if he exists, would exist in a judgemental form.

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fear of the unknown is what creates gods in the first place. fear of the unknown is what drives humanities progress.

 

personaly when i look at the unknown i see infinante posobility its really how you choose to define things in your existance. it is posible that there is a god out there but it is jsut as equaly posible there isnt, we could be the product of bob the alien blowing up his house when attempting to make meth. could that be considered a god? or the universe its self could be a good and we could exist for it to understand itsself. its how you want to inturpret it based on what evidence you see fit for in reality there are no answerers exept the ones we create. think happy thoughts about the posible not negitive for it will only hurt.

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I learned to embrace that I don't know. The whole Christian experience is based on telling yourself you 'know'. It's the basis of their bigotry. Knowing made me into such a shitty person that I have no desire for it anymore. It's pointless and based on ego and fear.

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Why do we seek meaning if the world is meaningless? How did our universe and existence start, wouldn't it take something impossible to explain it (by a naturalistic definition)?

 

The one thing that nags at me, is not knowing, it drives my fear, the fear of the unknown, fear that someone set the laws of physics in place, and in turn also erected moral laws....IE the bible or some other law

 

If I believed a God existed, it wouldn't be a Christian, Muslim, or Hindu God which are so obviously the product of humans. They have the cart before the horse, so to speak. God would be a "lifeforce" for lack of a better term. Since matter can't be created or destroyed, but changes form, maybe the universe always existed moving from singularity to what we have now. Maybe there are multiple universes or another universe existed "before" the singularity. God would be the force of matter/energy, wave/particle. This God is impersonal, but may be purposeful in that life arises from it. We are literally made of stardust.

 

All life would be an expression of God. "God is within you" would be true in this sense. We look within ourselves to find the strength and courage to fulfill our capabilities. God wouldn't be a supernatural mind that uses his magic to command and play with his created toys. Morality has been proven to be innate within diverse species of animals, so in this way, morals are binding and have developed (and continue to) over billions of years, making morality a product of the natural world. So, moral laws were not erected by God, but by the innate sense of morals within animals that bind them together as a species. Organized religious morality is innately divisive and potentially destructive, not cooperative (except within their own tribe).

 

As for meaning, we seek it within our lives, not externally. We find meaning rather than having it dictated by an external powerful Father. Although, our parents and society teach us what is meaningful during childhood. Both have failed you, and now you are left to pick up the pieces. there's hope for you as long as you keep trying to figure it all out.

 

That's how I see it. I don't believe a God really exists. But since I don't know, that is the God I would have believe existed.

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I learned to embrace that I don't know. The whole Christian experience is based on telling yourself you 'know'. It's pointless and based on ego and fear.

 

This is good 'chosen'. Not knowing is always a problem for me. I need 20 reincarnated lives to get all my questions answered. Not knowing the future and the many other thousands of things that I 'don't know', take away from me being truly comfortable right here - right now. It's always about being in control for me!

 

I love this little exert:

 

''When we don't know, most often our knee-jerk reaction is to "defend" ourselves in some way, shape or form - engaging in jargon or techno-babble or fear, to mask our unknowing, erecting a facade or fake image of knowing, inundating others with facts and figures to cloud the issue and muddy the already-murky waters, to justify our not knowing. We then blame someone else, all to mask our discomfort, fear, insecurity and uncertainty. It is to be in control and protect ourselves.''

"Not knowing" is a self-supporting, personal-developmental practice."Not knowing" is a practice that can actually bring one to be evermore effective. Welcoming the disturbance with a sense of "not knowing" is an opportunity for creativity and insight.

 

"Not knowing" allows us an opportunity to consciously slow down, "take a deep breath", delete our assumptions, misconceptions, misunderstandings,expectations, and personal "world-views" in order to "be" present in the moment, right here and right now, without all the intensity, irritation and agitation to 'get somewhere else'. .

 

"Not knowing" is all about curiosity, the adventure of "finding out" from a place of "Hmmm....... That's interesting..... I wonder what that's all about."

Kinda like reading a novel and not knowing the ending................

:scratch: I may try practicing this, starting right NOW.

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"Not knowing" is all about curiosity, the adventure of "finding out" from a place of "Hmmm....... That's interesting..... I wonder what that's all about."

Kinda like reading a novel and not knowing the ending................

:scratch: I may try practicing this, starting right NOW.

That's great Margee! It really is an adventure and makes the world more full of wonder.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have a lot of the same questions right now. As time goes on, I'm beginning to see how little we as humans really know. We're just tiny specks of life in this huge universe. Who are we to say that we have the answers? We're born without answers, and ultimately, we die the same way.

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I have a lot of the same questions right now. As time goes on, I'm beginning to see how little we as humans really know. We're just tiny specks of life in this huge universe. Who are we to say that we have the answers? We're born without answers, and ultimately, we die the same way.

 

One of the big steps in my deconversion was when I realized I didn't know shit. All the time when I was fundie I was convinced by the idea that I knew the secret, that I had the 'answer'. It sounds like it would be a good thing to think that, but it isn't. Realizing I don't know changed my personality for the better. It's like it made me more human, more honest with myself and therefore a happier person. I can't recommend it enough. :)

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Uncertainty and ambiguity scares me, makes me ask what if questions. I mean in the grand scheme of things nothing really matters does it? Even if there is a god, what does this little drama on earth accomplish? Is there any such thing as accomplishments?

Uncertainty and ambiguity don't scare me, but they DO annoy the hell out of me. It's an impertinence in my view for consciousness to be foisted on me when I'm not even given the courtesy of being appraised of WTF is going on and what it means and where I might fit in. Of course in having that gut feeling I'm assuming way too much about the universe, including that it actually gives a fig about me or what I think of it.

 

What does this little drama on earth accomplish? The bad news and the good news is, it accomplishes whatever you decide it accomplishes. It means whatever you decide it means. The bad news is, there is no given meaning. The good news is, you can make your own. The bad news is, making your own meaning is often so effortful and full of trial and error that absent a little good luck it can leave you with a serious urge to be a hermit, or not to be at all. Then again when it works, it's quite sublime.

 

The best I can tell you is, let everything be as it is, don't over-think everything or take yourself very seriously, and bide your time while being as observant as possible. Eventually you make some meaning for yourself and carve out a niche which, if not comfortable, is at least less uncomfortable and maybe even tolerable. Probably the biggest key for me is, don't impose your own assumptions or wishes or hopes or dreams on life. That way lies madness. Although ya'd THINK your life would have something vaguely to do with you and your aspirations, it does not. It's not made for you, and it doesn't cater to you. For all practical purposes, it won't conform to you; you must conform to it. Once you get that through your head, you save all the energy you used to expend on making life be something it refuses to be, to use for other things.

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i don't know this stuff doesn't really bother me anymore, i posted it awhile ago and since have different things pestering my mind that are even more annoying, more in line with my life. I'm more scared of god existing for my own reasons, i hope at least what i believe is under my control....

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i don't know this stuff doesn't really bother me anymore, i posted it awhile ago and since have different things pestering my mind that are even more annoying, more in line with my life. I'm more scared of god existing for my own reasons, i hope at least what i believe is under my control....

 

It isn't. You only believe what makes sense to you.

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Not having the answers scares me most of all i think, mostly because i've been taught the ones where god is going to send me to hell if i don't follow the bible. I guess i'm just wondering if this fear of the unknown grips anyone else.

I think you may be confusing not having answers with fear of the unknown. There is no way possible to have the answers to pretty much anything in life. What we do is find a certain amount of truth through which we navigate the world, which then opens to new truths. That's what it is to live as a human being. What I hear your real question to be is how can you feel at ease that others beliefs that there is a god who will punish you for not joining their religion is factual or not.

 

It's best to start there with clarifying the question, as opposed to confusing it into something else like a fear of not "having the Answers". Laser-beam the question onto the single issue, which is, "What if the Christians are right about the consequences for not being a Christian?"

 

I guess it's just strange....i mean i think about how it all started big bang, spontaneous appearance. Either way doesn't that imply there's a god or gods? I mean i know it's equally as likely there is no god (After all why couldn't this all just appear? Is that any less logical than saying a god put it here?) Either way though there are things i don't understand. That i can't comprehend. I guess i'm afraid that means that there is someone who can comprehend these things, who did, and who made our world.

What I hear is you making this 'Creator' match the Father-figure deity of the Christian religion. It assumes a separate being who is a person, like you, like me, except really, really big! It assumes God to be a type of being, just of a different order; you have cats, dogs, lizards, monkeys, people, God, fish, spirits, horses, deer, demons, birds, insects, angels, cows, etc. Do you see how they fit in there? Do you see a pattern? The view of God as a being of a different order, especially one that acts and behaves with human attributes is man's projection of himself, of his mind, onto that 'being'.

 

As for there being something as Source to all that is, I don't doubt that. I would call it the Divine, even God from one point of view. All things that are arise from that into whatever form they take. I don't see it as strictly material, as in the 'naturalistic' point of view (though it certainly does include the material), but that it is Source which gives rise to our own sense of being, our own sense of spirituality, if you will. Our wonder, our hopes, our vision, our aspiration, our connection to the world, to others, love, beliefs, etc. All of which are expressions of seeing and experiencing the world from the inside out, and from the outside in. So in this sense we are all expressions of the Universe coming into being, rising and falling, in not only our ordered physical world but our spiritual connection to it through our own selves.

 

But nowhere in there, in what I described is God necessarily understood as some sort of Zeus-like, bearded powerful god/man who tallies up our rights and wrongs. That is a child's understanding of the world, trying to reconcile that spiritual/social experience of their world with childlike symbolism. Think of the child that says to his sibling, "Dad's gonna punish you when he get's home!". It's a vehicle for the child to try to keep themselves in check following certain ordered rules of their social world of which they are part. But the day comes when the child is an adult, he puts off childish things, including notions of dad in the sky with his belt who's 'gonna whip you when he get's home".

 

These images of God are reflective of people's mental and emotional and social stages of development. They are symbols reflecting where they are at internally. They are not about science, and to say you need "Answers", you need facts, is not the correct criteria to understanding and coming to terms with these things. You need insight. That's different than "Answers".

 

Not even that there's necessarily something spiritual to it, but that there is a god and my fears are real.

I believe there is "God", and have absolutely no fear at all. On the contrary, I have freedom. How I see things in a spiritual light has nothing whatsoever to do with needing to have answers; needing to try to make sense of puzzles; needing to find meaning in a meaningless world; fearing some bad afterlife destination; worried about what comes after death, and so on. For me, it has everything to do with my sense of self in response to Life in my own being and in the world. It's about a connection to all things, and a desire to reach into that and let it flow through me into my being, and from my being out into it in a living cycle of breathing life. It's about the Heart, the Mind, the Soul of all that is that is within all that is. It's about conscious awakening to that, and spiritual connection into all aspects of my being.

 

The only way to touch that, is to release all fear; rationally, emotionally, mentally, spiritually. Questions about "What if I'm not right???", are answered in the simple state of being itself. You know, from within. There aren't doubts, on that level of knowing. It's not a rational knowing. It's existential.

 

I also know that Richard Dawkins makes the valid claim that adding god, an even more improbable being, to the question of how the world began it just makes it more complicated

Forgive me, Richard Dawkins is about as much of an authority on these matters as is Bozo the Clown. He defines God as the child's imagination of God and calls all human experience of and beliefs about God that. But where I would agree is that those who try to make God a matter of explaining the material world in its naturalistic properties, trying to make God a matter for science, is indeed themselves missing the point. They are missing the point of God just as much as Dawkins is and they are both making the same error - just at opposite sides of the coin.

 

They are arguing about God from a premodern, pre-differentiated mode of thinking; he is arguing it from a postmodern, dissociated mode of thought. They try to make a pre-rational understanding of God, the mythic God, fit into a rational modern understanding of the world - which is impossible. Dawkins, and others try to take modern science and reason and prove how that mythic God doesn't exist. Then, because they are what I would call merely voices of expression of the dissociation of the spheres of human experience that rightly differentiated during the Enlightenment; Art, Morals, and Science, he argues that since that mythic God doesn't fit what modernity has revealed, that therefore its all simply a relic of primitive mind trying to make sense of a rational, ordered world as science reveals! That is the crux of it right there. So instead of being a broad range of understanding in his thinking, he narrowly reduces the other spheres of human experience and evolution into a strictly biological one, and with his own "magic wand" simply dismisses the others, irrationally. He is as guilty of blind eyes, as are his mythic opponents he wages war against.

 

We're dealing with things that go beyond the tools of science, just as much as art and culture is not a matter for Richard Dawkins's area of specialty either. I see human spirituality as part of an integration of the spheres of our existence. It touches out into all aspects of life and is not defined by science, nor art, nor morals, nor society, not reason. All religion, all everything really, is an expression of That. It is Ground and Goal of all that is.

 

Uncertainty and ambiguity scares me, makes me ask what if questions. I mean in the grand scheme of things nothing really matters does it? Even if there is a god, what does this little drama on earth accomplish? Is there any such thing as accomplishments?

You're looking for answers "out there". You won't find them there, unless you bring what is "in here" into that. At that point, the entire critera of looking for answers not longer is relevant. It's the only way I can see to satisfy that. Bring the inside to the outside, and the outside to the inside. Look for answers within. Try that for awhile, instead of asking others for what to believe.

 

How do i know that i'm not just denying "the truth" when i don't really know some of the most important questions in life?

As soon as you quit searching, then you'll find it.

 

The one thing that nags at me, is not knowing, it drives my fear, the fear of the unknown, fear that someone set the laws of physics in place, and in turn also erected moral laws....IE the bible or some other law

Quit looking for Answers. It's not about your rational mind alone. Reason will not give you those answers. Stop it for it awhile and let the other parts of yourself seek their own 'answers'. Set your reasoning aside for awhile and let those other parts of yourself breathe for a while. Ponder that for the rest of the day, for the rest of the week.

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