Falloutdude Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I mean i understand that people are going to be livid over what was done to them whilst in Fundamentalism, but can't we do what they say they do and forgive them? Again i realize a lot of it is fucked up, but we've all been there, we all believed it Doesn't it just alienate them more when we mock them? I mean i can see venting among others who are equally as jaded by christianity, i'm just afraid sometimes that we are giving evangelists fuel to show how evil and anti-christian the world is. I know it's not really our concern to think about such things, but shouldn't we consider others when debating and what not on other sites? I don't know, i guess i say this because, personally, all the christian bashing kind of made me afraid there was some truth to what they said about "the world" that "the truth burned their ears". I also know that a lot of people who are on the fence are off-put by hostility towards christians (i know i was). I guess all i'm saying is can't we treat them how we'd like to be treated (sorry for the cliche.....) I don't know, i'm not saying don't vent or anything, i guess open hostility just bothers me sometimes.....i might be the only one, and I apologize if this sounds a bit too mushy, i guess i just wanted to "vent" about how i'm sad at how we treat those who are just as fucked up as we once were, you know? I know they don't deserve it or anything, i guess it's my later years in christianity, but i guess i'm just scared we'll prove them right sometimes or begin blaming the victims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 16, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted July 16, 2011 Some of them are more obnoxious than others and deserve my wrath. Others I pity. Still others are no problem at all; they simply have some beliefs I don't have. Regardless, I don't think many true believers are talked out of their mindset with facts and logic or "harshness." People who leave Christianity seem to find their own way in their own time. I'd be interested to hear if anyone here was successfully persuaded by someone to leave the faith. In practice, I really don't dole out wrath unless I encounter some in-your-face Christian hate speech. Even then, I'm more likely to point out what a poor representative of Jesus they make and never even argue theology. It is a good point that poor behavior on our part strengthens their position in their mind, and they will never understand the argument we are making. To paraphrase someone I can't recall right now, we are all known by our fruits. Assholes produce dingleberries, not peaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Strangely enough, I don't have a problem with open hostility to Christians on this site. Dave states the whole issue better than I can: http://articles.exch...to-be-nice.html Considering what many of us have been through, it would be unnatural to tolerate some of the Christian preaching we see on this site. If a Christian wants to come in here and try to understand us, that is one thing -preaching is another and we have had far too much of the latter. I think it helps in the recovery process to vent. I wish I had this site when I was about 15. Would have saved me a lot of grief, but alas, home computers and the internet were not in existence. This does not mean I am rude in real life to Christians - I simply ignore most of it unless someone is preaching in my face. This does not generally happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recoveringfromchristianity Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Hey Dude, Let's see what happens when you go to any christian website and post the same thing except switch "names" Seriously, I live my life treating others as I wish to be treated. If some troll comes here to insult my intelligence and not just for conversation then I don't feel too bad saying something slightly unkind. Other than that this site is here for us to share our experiences and our exasperation with other beliefs. I don't go to christian or other belief websites to make fun of them or whatever. Personally, I think christians are deluded but I am surrounded by them. I say live and let live (until you want to make your beliefs rules in my country). Life can be a bitch so whatever gets you through the day is okay with me. I was never a get in anyone's face as a christian so I am not that way as an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I don't know that "the world" is anti christian. It is more self centred, ego driven and void of sensible decisions that would make it easier for all of us to live here. Christians are more guilty of those qualities than anyone else I have met, even when they claim to know better which is what makes them so obnoxious in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Its fine to show empathy but the folk that come here with the mindset that gawd still luvz uz cuz we didn't quite have teh guud newz az they didz, deserve my contempt and bad fundie mocking spellingz aka fundiespeak. The types you get here are the evangelical woos and anyone that still believes in a 6k yo earf and that jeebus iz cumming to takez them all cloud surfing pretty soonz are not open to any factual persuasion. Some may be as pissed off as we were and may actually find solace in the fact they need to be mocked for their silly beliefs. No fundie (not already in transit) is going to be persuaded. Their wholly babble is written as an apologetic and the more folk deconvert/leave teh faith, the closer jeebus is to cumming, aka the great falling away. Folk like us are dogs that returned to their vomit and are given up to satan for the destruction of our souls. If no one has made an effort to even read their fucking wholly babble, they are not going to be anything but disgusted by what we say here. The folk that find their way here do so by googling and in most cases find solace that other folk feel the same way. The ones that do, usually are those looking for the "truth" they are not seeing in their churches and have already started to question, they have already come to a WTF moment. Of course some come here with real compassion but with their heads firmly up their asses try and tell us that gawd still loves us even though we are angry at him. Problem is, we all have rejected the babble, we have rejected the god man invented and once this realization is made, that bell cannot be unrung. Obviously we behave differently on other sites and conform to the etiquette expected there (as if no xian does not say fuck once in awhile) You of course are limited, and any cyber church type website, where all are getting woodies over the next end of daze prediction, you are wasting your time. Logic and xianity is like oil and water, they do not mix. The ex muslims are just as "bad" as us and they have even more muslim woos citing walls of text as if they have not already read that shit. In RL, I do not discuss religion. If it comes up, I remain nonchalant or when asked I may say I am agnostic. But then I live in a culture where religion is generally not a point of everyday speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 ...we... People on this website come from very different backgrounds, countries, and cultures. Some of them have gone through severe hardships. This website was primarily created for those who can't express what they feel in their social situations and need an outlet. Be careful not to judge them or generalize everyone on this website and declare what they should and shouldn't do. One of the things that I hate the most about Christians is how much they love to tell everyone how they should talk, behave, and believe. I hope that's not what you really wanted to do. Seriously. If you don't like it here or the people here, don't try to change them or this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Everybody's too harsh from time to time. It's called being human. Any combination of fatigue, personality, endocrinology, sociology, family dynamics, and personal stress can lead to somebody mocking, sneering, deriding and insulting another person. The same is true of christians, who often take the passive aggressive route, as it is of non-Christians or ex-Christians. I think we need to try to maintain adherence to our personal sense of ethics and the community rules of decorum. But we also need to realize we will all vary from scrupulous conformity and careless disregard from time to time. But , hopefully, most of the time we will remain true to our principles of fair play. Will many Christians take the attitudes and statements of ex-Christians as some proof of their rebellion against a truth they "know is valid? Of course. The brain-conditioning that takes place in religion insures an "us" vs "Them" mentality that takes everything non-Christians say and force-fits their words and actions into a pre-fashioned "mold" or straw man. Everything becomes evidence of depravity and open disobedience. It's a way of convincing themselves that they are right. That's why we cannot be too overly concerned about how "it will look" to evangelicals and/or other conservatives or fundamentalists. It's not about dialog or a meeting of the minds or coming to a better understanding of the diverse groups of people in this world we share. It's about changing those heathen and making them like us. You'll never have good p.r. with that mind-set. I agree with the motto "don't be a dick!" But I also realize on any given day I will be the biggest dick on the board. It's just part of the human condition, at least for me anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 all the christian bashing kind of made me afraid there was some truth to what they said about "the world" that "the truth burned their ears". I also know that a lot of people who are on the fence are off-put by hostility towards christians (i know i was). Trust me it's not the "truth" that burns my ears (there's nothing at all true about it), it's the blatant stupidity of the things Christians say/believe that burns my ears. Examples: Christian 1: "The earth is only 6,000 years old, hallelujah!" Christian 2: "Dinosaurs never existed, don't believe Satin's lies!!11!1!!!" Christian 3: "God hates fags and dead US Soldiers!!" Christian 4: "Jews, scientists, fags, Mexicans, atheists and liberals are all going to hell! Praise Jesus Amen!!!11!!1!!" Mocking is very much in order - and encouraged.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Oh sorry i wasn't talking about this site, I was just talking about in general life when you hear christians talking about beliefs you now find ridiculous, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Gramp Harley hasn't been here in a few years and yet we are still getting these Rodney King posts? The OP should have been here a few years back if he wanted to see harsh. And Harley wasn't the only culprit. In many ways, I miss the old days. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 ...we... People on this website come from very different backgrounds, countries, and cultures. Some of them have gone through severe hardships. This website was primarily created for those who can't express what they feel in their social situations and need an outlet. Be careful not to judge them or generalize everyone on this website and declare what they should and shouldn't do. One of the things that I hate the most about Christians is how much they love to tell everyone how they should talk, behave, and believe. I hope that's not what you really wanted to do. Seriously. If you don't like it here or the people here, don't try to change them or this site. You misunderstand ouroboros, i wasn't saying it in a condescending way, i wasn't even thinking about this site when i wrote it, i'm more talking about when i come across people on like youtube or other sites where these kinds of things are being discussed and a lot of people openly mock and ridicule them for believing the way they do. Calling them stupid, or mocking their ignorance. I personally don't really care what people on here do, i just find it sad sometimes, and was voicing my opinion on the matter. When i said "we" i meant we ex-christians and wasn't using it to say everybody on this site should act the same, really i was thinking "out loud" more than anything. It was more to get people thinking about how they felt i guess. I see a lot of people treating fellow humans horribly and rudely (me included) and it just makes me a little sad/sorry for people on the "other side" of the issue Sorry if i came across in a preachy sort of way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 I really should have thought where i was posting this when i did...ha ha honestly i wasn't even thinking of this site, that's what this site is here for. Also when people are attacking you is different story. It's when christians are just kind of stating their beliefs on like a video or facebook or something and people are militantly hostile against them is what i was referring to. If that makes any sense. I just realize i do this myself sometimes and worry i'm being too insensitive. Then again i've always been an emotional guy. I know not everyone's like that, still i worry for people that are you know? Mostly i was just commenting how people treat the religious in general. I often become very angry with religious people, annoyed by how entitled they are to my private thoughts, and i lash out. I just realize that sometimes, it's really not their fault and that i was at that point once too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Gramp Harley hasn't been here in a few years and yet we are still getting these Rodney King posts? The OP should have been here a few years back if he wanted to see harsh. And Harley wasn't the only culprit. In many ways, I miss the old days. I wasn't talking about this site...ha ha yeah i know, i really should have thought about how this could have been taken being as this is a site all about this kind of stuff....ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 we should never be hostile to christians for if we do it only gives them reason to belive that the world is evil and out to get them only strengthing their claims that they are the peacful ones of the earth. people who are judged will feal the right to judge in return and thats why you have things such as terrorist movments. the problem comes in is we know what they belive is desructive to humanity so how do we respond to them? i think we need to expose them to the flaws of their faith with out actualy bashing the christian itself. but of course this idea is hard to to do in reality. an eye for a eye and a tooth for a tooth makes the whole world blind and evry one starves as the saying goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 If you think xians deserve "respect" on Utoob or YahooAnswers etc. you need only look at how they behave. The only Toobs I watch are atheist ones and they get an earful from the heathen when they dare attack one of our own Any site with the hint of a religion section is like pollen to a bee and they try take it over get their buddies as moderators etc and then start banning teh heathen. Places like FB are also being taken over and is why I no longer go there. If you really want to see how they are ridiculed, go to Fundies say the darndest things and click on the comments link. Stuff like this deserves ridicule. Quote# 82559 The Grand Canyon's sedimentary rock layers are horizontal and even, if there were to be millions of years the layers would not be even because after a layer is layed down, it starts eroding, which does not leave a horizontal surface. So there is a problem with millions of years because the layers are horizontal and a catastrophic flood fits perfectly into the Grand Canyon because layers rapidly layed down would leave a horizontal layers! So the biblical flood must be true. Caleb D. Swanson, Creation Conversations 46 Comments [7/13/2011 3:27:59 AM] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I feel it is inappropriate to have religious discussions in a public setting where there is a captive audience. I mean mouthing off about religion in the office or school or public places. I see no reason to remain silent. I have in the past - one time in the break room after a computer class someone was saying to the four or five people present "you ARE Christians aren't you?" This was a very long time ago and at that time, yes, I was a Christian so I affirmed it, but it still seems so inappropriate. I can't remember the context of what this person was talking about, but how is a question like that ever good in a school setting? WHY DO THESE PEOPLE DESERVE CONSTANT CONSIDERATION AND TOLERANCE?? This said, I certainly prefer no confrontation. I take a live and let live approach and try to be nice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 ... ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You misunderstand ouroboros, i wasn't saying it in a condescending way, i wasn't even thinking about this site when i wrote it,... Ah. Okay. Now I'm feeling better. It's a sore spot for me, and I think for many others on this website. We used to be very harsh and abusive of Christians on this website, but over the years we have toned it down, much to thanks to those who wished that we could be less abrasive, and it's a bit unfortunate. Some who come here just need a place to let their frustration out with how Christianity is treating them in their regular, off-line life. Some members are surrounded with only Christians and a 100% Christian cultural and social environment. They can't say "boo" without being scorned, judged, and told their going to Hell. So this website is a waterhole for some people to say "well, fuck it! I hate Christians and Christianity!" And the more we alienate those people, the less this website will be an oasis for them. But also, we'd be more Christian friendly instead and have more Christians here and sing kumbaya and talking about cute puppies in Heaven. That's why it's a sore thumb. But I know now that you didn't talk about this. But you also know why I responded the way I did. We're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Outside of this debate re: the tone here on this site, I do feel there are some of the New Atheists who are indeed harsh. There is not much to be gained by their confrontational approach, at least not directly; however, they are opening the minds of some, perhaps just a little bit. If someone needs me to believe their Jesus or crystals or whatever it may be in order to validate themself, I am simply not playing along. I am happy to politely disagree and usually avoid further discussion though i am beginning to see the importance of being out as an agnostic/atheist. If I am attacked for violating the sensibilities (ie privileged status) of a religious group, I am starting to speak up. Harsh is not my style but firm and confident is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Sure it would be easy to just let it go, forget about it and forgive, live and let live, do unto others.. but their still fucking up the world everyday around me. I'd have to move to a desert island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I realised that you meant 'in general' and not specifically on this site. I think the best thing is to be allowed to be angry and rant about 'what was done to you' and 'what is being done to others' without being offensive and horrible to christians. I have found myself getting upset on behalf of people with faith - I have found some atheists (usually those who have never really believed in a god) to be so incredibly derogatory of people who have faith, to the point that they almost think they are more intelligent and more evolved than 'believers' and it angers me as much as the arrogance and self-righteousness of those with faith. It is so distasteful to me and I find it very uncomfortable - but then I dislike arrogance and mockery and offense in general, and there are people like this in every walk of life! I'm a bit of a softy softy really. I like to believe that you can respectfully disagree with and challenge a person's beliefs, opinions and actions without having to be unpleasant or offensive about them as a person. However this is difficult when people cannot separate themselves from their beliefs and values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 It's a sore spot for me, and I think for many others on this website. We used to be very harsh and abusive of Christians on this website I'm sure this says something about my character, but I was first attracted to this site by a post or something I read somewhere that, to paraphrase, said something like "you should see ex-christian, if you want to see xians getting their asses handed to them. Those guys over there are hard core..." I had been deconverted for a long time when I found this site, but the atmosphere of not holding back and just being blunt, but truthful, was something I really needed at that time then and it led to closure over my deconversion that had been festering for years. I hope we never have to walk on egg shells around here. That we don't is what makes this site great. and it's a bit unfortunate. Some who come here just need a place to let their frustration out with how Christianity is treating them in their regular, off-line life Absolutely. I wish we could step back a few steps myself. I personally don't feel the need to unload on an xian who is being obnoxious anymore, but doing so in the past was something I needed and I'm sure others deconverting do too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Yes, I think we should be careful and conscientious that we don't give people a reason to think we are wrong. That said, I am writing a book about my experiences and in this book I really try to be conscientious and just state the facts. However, I know that some will think I am bitter for the simple fact I am speaking of these things. What matters is how I view myself. Do I feel good about what I am saying? Do I know my own motives? If I can answer yes, I can feel good about it, even if I have periodic doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Too harsh? Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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