chosendarkness Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Definitely go with that feeling. That's extremely positive and shows you already ARE standing up for yourself because you believe in yourself. I envy you deconverting young, you'll have a lot of time to do what you want in life and will probably get a lot of out of life. Much more than if you had stayed trapped in fundamentalism. Really great post! I know the personal hell. You guys are lucky you have the internet, when I went through this there was no one at all to talk to. Even then I still made through. It gets better as you keep thinking for yourself and sharing your thoughts and how you feel. I think the reason it took me so long is because I've always been sheepish, depending on others telling me how I should be. Letting go of religion, I finally see that I have to take responsibility for my own life, because no invisible man in the sky is going to do it for me. And that can be a scary realization. The thought that I could easily make a wrong decision and fuck up my own life, or someone else's. But hey, I guess that's life. Yes it is a scary realization for anyone. I remember feeling very anxious about it. I had to leave my comfort zone and be responsible for my own happiness. I remember thinking that's too much pressure. I wasn't sure if I wanted to have that much responsibility, because it was so new to me at the time. Lots of times we have fears that are completely unfounded, and for me that was one of them. It actually made life much more exciting and opened the floodgates so to speak. It was like seeing life for the first time, that the skies the limit and now you can soar like an eagle. It's kind of hard to put into words right, it's just a good thing. Taking responsibility is something you have to choose all throughout life. Starting early gives you big edge though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yes it is a scary realization for anyone. I remember feeling very anxious about it. I had to leave my comfort zone and be responsible for my own happiness. I remember thinking that's too much pressure. I wasn't sure if I wanted to have that much responsibility, because it was so new to me at the time. Lots of times we have fears that are completely unfounded, and for me that was one of them. It actually made life much more exciting and opened the floodgates so to speak. It was like seeing life for the first time, that the skies the limit and now you can soar like an eagle. It's kind of hard to put into words right, it's just a good thing. Taking responsibility is something you have to choose all throughout life. Starting early gives you big edge though. The part I bolded is exactly what I'm feeling at this moment. I'm angry. Boiling with it. I feel like I've been blind and stupid my whole life. I still am. I'm fucking weak. If I had ever used half of my goddamn brain, I never would have been brainwashed with this poison in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Yes it is a scary realization for anyone. I remember feeling very anxious about it. I had to leave my comfort zone and be responsible for my own happiness. I remember thinking that's too much pressure. I wasn't sure if I wanted to have that much responsibility, because it was so new to me at the time. Lots of times we have fears that are completely unfounded, and for me that was one of them. It actually made life much more exciting and opened the floodgates so to speak. It was like seeing life for the first time, that the skies the limit and now you can soar like an eagle. It's kind of hard to put into words right, it's just a good thing. Taking responsibility is something you have to choose all throughout life. Starting early gives you big edge though. The part I bolded is exactly what I'm feeling at this moment. I'm angry. Boiling with it. I feel like I've been blind and stupid my whole life. I still am. I'm fucking weak. If I had ever used half of my goddamn brain, I never would have been brainwashed with this poison in the first place. I know the exact feeling. I wish I hadn't wasted so much of life. I could be so much more today if I hadn't. The way I look at it though, there's no point in regretting the past. Time to kick ass now and not look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I know the exact feeling. I wish I hadn't wasted so much of life. I could be so much more today if I hadn't. The way I look at it though, there's no point in regretting the past. Time to kick ass now and not look back. Yeah. But I don't know if I've got it in me. If I needed a crutch so much in the past, what makes now any different? If I'm weak minded, then I'm weak minded. Not much I can do about it. That's the whole reason I've had so much difficulty breaking free. Because I'm swayed by any well thought argument on either side. I guess that's the cost of being a sheep my whole life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I know the exact feeling. I wish I hadn't wasted so much of life. I could be so much more today if I hadn't. The way I look at it though, there's no point in regretting the past. Time to kick ass now and not look back. Yeah. But I don't know if I've got it in me. If I needed a crutch so much in the past, what makes now any different? If I'm weak minded, then I'm weak minded. Not much I can do about it. That's the whole reason I've had so much difficulty breaking free. Because I'm swayed by any well thought argument on either side. I guess that's the cost of being a sheep my whole life. Nobody's perfect. You don't have to all of a sudden be perfect, things don't happen overnight, just take it a step at a time. The important thing is if you're making some effort, doing something, anything. You're already doing something by coming here. That's an awesome achievement, to just start thinking about new things and reaching out. That's the most important step in anything, taking the first steps. Most people don't even do that. You're doing good, don't be so hard on yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I feel like I've been blind and stupid my whole life. I still am. I'm fucking weak. If I had ever used half of my goddamn brain, I never would have been brainwashed with this poison in the first place. I don't think this statement is accurate. Remember, almost all of us on this site have our former lives which were enmeshed in Christianity in common. Some of us, myself included, were very strong Christians who truly thought we had the truth. That does not make any of us, including you, stupid or weak. It makes us human beings who are susceptible to lapses in logic and reasoning. Take heart with the fact that now you are questioning the religion. Just getting this far is a whole lot more than most people in the religion will ever get. I think it shows your intelligence. Just don't give up............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Nobody's perfect. You don't have to all of a sudden be perfect, things don't happen overnight, just take it a step at a time. The important thing is if you're making some effort, doing something, anything. You're already doing something by coming here. That's an awesome achievement, to just start thinking about new things and reaching out. That's the most important step in anything, taking the first steps. Most people don't even do that. You're doing good, don't be so hard on yourself. I realize coming here is an achievement, but I came here before and spammed the hell out of this board with pathetic rants of self pity under a different name. If anything, coming back shows how weak I am. It might have been an achievement back then, but I should have made much more progress than I have by this point. I don't think this statement is accurate. Remember, almost all of us on this site have our former lives which were enmeshed in Christianity in common. Some of us, myself included, were very strong Christians who truly thought we had the truth. That does not make any of us, including you, stupid or weak. It makes us human beings who are susceptible to lapses in logic and reasoning. Take heart with the fact that now you are questioning the religion. Just getting this far is a whole lot more than most people in the religion will ever get. I think it shows your intelligence. Just don't give up............ That's just it, you guys were strong Christians, dedicated to Jesus. I never was. I started this journey of deconversion mainly because I didn't like the religion or the mental anguish it caused me. Sure, I encountered the fallibility of the religion along the way, but that's not how it started out. I "left" believing it was probably true. I had impure motives. I became a Christian because I was weak (fear of hell and nothing else), and I left Christianity because I was weak (couldn't handle the straight and narrow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't think this statement is accurate. Remember, almost all of us on this site have our former lives which were enmeshed in Christianity in common. Some of us, myself included, were very strong Christians who truly thought we had the truth. That does not make any of us, including you, stupid or weak. It makes us human beings who are susceptible to lapses in logic and reasoning. Take heart with the fact that now you are questioning the religion. Just getting this far is a whole lot more than most people in the religion will ever get. I think it shows your intelligence. Just don't give up............ That's just it, you guys were strong Christians, dedicated to Jesus. I never was. I started this journey of deconversion mainly because I didn't like the religion or the mental anguish it caused me. Sure, I encountered the fallibility of the religion along the way, but that's not how it started out. I "left" believing it was probably true. I had impure motives. I became a Christian because I was weak (fear of hell and nothing else), and I left Christianity because I was weak (couldn't handle the straight and narrow). Please note that I said "some" of us were very strong Christians. Many people on this site tell us that they were never strong Christians. You are not unlike those people. Again, I think you're selling yourself short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 But if a person hasn't decided whether or not their former religion is true or not, how do they know what decisions they should make? I'm talking both the big and small questions. How is it possible to take a stand for anything in that position? What big decisions are you struggling with? It's better to do something and make a mistake than to do nothing. At least you'll learn something valuable from your mistakes, but if you do nothing you won't learn anything. I had to make the decision whether or not to go to college. My fundie friends were against it, and I worried that I couldn't make it, and that I might become someone I didn't want to be. I did it anyway, and it was a very good decision. No one's 100% sure when they make important decisions, you just have to take a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I realize coming here is an achievement, but I came here before and spammed the hell out of this board with pathetic rants of self pity under a different name. If anything, coming back shows how weak I am. It might have been an achievement back then, but I should have made much more progress than I have by this point. Nah, it took me a VERY long time to deconvert. The progression was very slow. I used to think the same thing, that something must be wrong with me because it took me so long. I wasn't a strong Christian either. I always had problems with it. You're just being down on yourself, which we all do. You're not inferior to anyone here. That's not even relevant to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Please note that I said "some" of us were very strong Christians. Many people on this site tell us that they were never strong Christians. You are not unlike those people. Again, I think you're selling yourself short. That may be, but everyone's thoughts and motives are different. Mine were initially selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Please note that I said "some" of us were very strong Christians. Many people on this site tell us that they were never strong Christians. You are not unlike those people. Again, I think you're selling yourself short. That may be, but everyone's thoughts and motives are different. Mine were initially selfish. So what difference does that make? Do you think I left Christianity for anyone other than for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 What big decisions are you struggling with? It's better to do something and make a mistake than to do nothing. At least you'll learn something valuable from your mistakes, but if you do nothing you won't learn anything. I had to make the decision whether or not to go to college. My fundie friends were against it, and I worried that I couldn't make it, and that I might become someone I didn't want to be. I did it anyway, and it was a very good decision. No one's 100% sure when they make important decisions, you just have to take a chance. That was more of a hypothetical question than anything, as I'm currently not facing any big decisions that religion or lack thereof would interfere with. Like dating, marriage, politics, etc. There are tons of smaller things though. Basic, daily decisions. The kind I don't know how to make without knowing what I believe. Things that have to do with my personal character, what I participate in, what I allow myself to enjoy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 So what difference does that make? Do you think I left Christianity for anyone other than for me? No. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was a selfish decision on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 So what difference does that make? Do you think I left Christianity for anyone other than for me? No. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was a selfish decision on your part. The issue of selfishness with respect to our religious choices, does not necessarily involve the decision we make about whether or not to believe. Rather, I believe it involves how we choose to live our lives once we make that decision. For example, it is selfish to insist that all others must believe as you do and not even to acknowledge that there may be a different way to live one's life. Or to look down upon others for their religious choices. But the choice concerning religious beliefs itself is always a personal one as was yours and as was mine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 The issue of selfishness with respect to our religious choices, does not necessarily involve the decision we make about whether or not to believe. Rather, I believe it involves how we choose to live our lives once we make that decision. For example, it is selfish to insist that all others must believe as you do and not even to acknowledge that there may be a different way to live one's life. Or to look down upon others for their religious choices. But the choice concerning religious beliefs itself is always a personal one as was yours and as was mine. I know. I'm just saying, I wish I could say I left because I came to the conclusion that Jesus wasn't real, after living a blameless life devoted to what I believed in. Or because of all the innocent people killed in the name of God, both inside and outside the Bible. Or because of the repulsive doctrine of eternal hell. Or because of the general way the church has always treated people. But that wasn't always the case. Sure, right now, those things absolutely piss me off, and make me refuse to go back. But at first, I didn't really care about any of that. I was a stupid, heartless, selfish brat who wanted things to go my own way. I am absolutely disgusted at the person I was then. I'm ashamed to say, there might be a little bit of that still in me. That's why I'm so hard on myself. Not because I think that anyone who didn't leave because of ______ is selfish, but because I know what kind of filth is inside of me, and I can clearly see my impure motives, and know that I am not, nor have I ever been anywhere near what I should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I know. I'm just saying, I wish I could say I left because I came to the conclusion that Jesus wasn't real, after living a blameless life devoted to what I believed in. Or because of all the innocent people killed in the name of God, both inside and outside the Bible. Or because of the repulsive doctrine of eternal hell. Or because of the general way the church has always treated people. But that wasn't always the case. Sure, right now, those things absolutely piss me off, and make me refuse to go back. But at first, I didn't really care about any of that. I was a stupid, heartless, selfish brat who wanted things to go my own way. I am absolutely disgusted at the person I was then. I'm ashamed to say, there might be a little bit of that still in me. That's why I'm so hard on myself. Not because I think that anyone who didn't leave because of ______ is selfish, but because I know what kind of filth is inside of me, and I can clearly see my impure motives, and know that I am not, nor have I ever been anywhere near what I should be. If you are disappointed in your motivations, there's good news for you. You may change that now. Don't kick yourself for what you were. Rather, start shaping yourself into what you want to become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 If you are disappointed in your motivations, there's good news for you. You may change that now. Don't kick yourself for what you were. Rather, start shaping yourself into what you want to become. I'm trying to do that. I find myself failing a lot. It makes me wonder, is it really possible for a person to change the core of what they are? Anyone can put on a front, but can they change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 If you are disappointed in your motivations, there's good news for you. You may change that now. Don't kick yourself for what you were. Rather, start shaping yourself into what you want to become. I'm trying to do that. I find myself failing a lot. It makes me wonder, is it really possible for a person to change the core of what they are? Anyone can put on a front, but can they change? I don't look at it as changing as such. Instead, I look it as growing. And, yes, it is possible for a person to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 I don't look at it as changing as such. Instead, I look it as growing. And, yes, it is possible for a person to grow. That's a decent way of looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I just got back from Release and reclaim, and don't really even worry about this subject at all, perhaps because i have other more disconcerting things. Mostly because talking about it out loud made it ridiculous At least i ended up having fun, and meeting some awesome people I may have to end up leaving this forum for the same reason as you DamnedSoul, i was even snapped at by a psychologist one time!! fucking just tired of people getting irritated with me for something i can't help. I have problems, i can't afford help, i may not even be getting my medical insurance back so i won't even have what little medicine i DO get. So i'll probably just get worse and more annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedSoul Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 I just got back from Release and reclaim, and don't really even worry about this subject at all, perhaps because i have other more disconcerting things. Mostly because talking about it out loud made it ridiculous At least i ended up having fun, and meeting some awesome people I may have to end up leaving this forum for the same reason as you DamnedSoul, i was even snapped at by a psychologist one time!! fucking just tired of people getting irritated with me for something i can't help. I have problems, i can't afford help, i may not even be getting my medical insurance back so i won't even have what little medicine i DO get. So i'll probably just get worse and more annoying. These forums exist for people like us. If anyone gets irritated at you for struggling, then they've completely missed the point. This may sound odd coming from me, but don't lose heart. You can do this, I can do this, we all can. As long as we all stick together and stop belittling each other for our faults. If you want to talk about this more in detail, feel free to PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I'm just tired of being so fucking scared about everything, if i hear something that could seem to boost christianity to the level of "divine", i'm tired of questioning and doubting everything, and now i feel just fucking depressed like i'll never be ok again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 What big decisions are you struggling with? It's better to do something and make a mistake than to do nothing. At least you'll learn something valuable from your mistakes, but if you do nothing you won't learn anything. I had to make the decision whether or not to go to college. My fundie friends were against it, and I worried that I couldn't make it, and that I might become someone I didn't want to be. I did it anyway, and it was a very good decision. No one's 100% sure when they make important decisions, you just have to take a chance. That was more of a hypothetical question than anything, as I'm currently not facing any big decisions that religion or lack thereof would interfere with. Like dating, marriage, politics, etc. There are tons of smaller things though. Basic, daily decisions. The kind I don't know how to make without knowing what I believe. Things that have to do with my personal character, what I participate in, what I allow myself to enjoy, etc. So you want to enjoy things, participate in things, but you don't know what to do because it might go against God or maybe your afraid something bad might happen? I don't know if it's the same thing, but I used to be hesitant about things that were 'non-Christian', things the fundies said were bad, and I think a little of that is still with me. But at first it was hard because I was so used to everything and everyone around me being Christian that I felt like an outsider at first, having that fear like maybe I was in the wrong place, feeling like it wasn't right. That took a long time to go away for me. You do have to watch out for the kind of people you hang out with though, but that's just using common sense. That's a good way to decide what to do, just using common sense instead of looking at it from the spiritual perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I'm just tired of being so fucking scared about everything, if i hear something that could seem to boost christianity to the level of "divine", i'm tired of questioning and doubting everything, and now i feel just fucking depressed like i'll never be ok again They should make some kind of fundie-simulator that people can use to get over their fears. Kind of like virtual reality simulation where they help people get over the fear of heights. But instead of putting on top of a building, this would have a giant throne and god sitting there being disapproving of you, or maybe demons flying around, or even a hell simulation. Maybe that's a stupid idea, but man that's a real fear I've had as well and it's not fun. Facing fears is a good thing so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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