Dante Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like you I also would like to return to normal life too. My advice would be to slowly relinquish the desire to know everything, to fit all the pieces together. It is never ending. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like you I also would like to return to normal life too. My advice would be to slowly relinquish the desire to know everything, to fit all the pieces together. It is never ending. but how? How do i not fear this? These prophecies and fear mongering ideas? How? I just don't believe i can let go without feeling sure that it will be ok, that i won't go to hell. Most of all, that i won't wonder/always have a nagging fear in the back of my head of "what if you're wrong" "what if this is evidence" or most of all "You'll never be able to live happily until you get an answer to this...." I just don't know how to let go of the fear, my mind won't let me just not think about it, even if i don't think about it it will always be there, in the back of my head, hindering me from living life. I guess i just have this compulsion to solve every little fear in my head.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 The desire to know everything is like a mental addiction, you would just have to go cold turkey, while treating all the fears as withdrawal symptoms. The only alternative is to wade in the abyss of endless information. If you want answers, here are mine I can offer: (The five main links) http://horrorhasaface.blogspot.com/2010/10/light-soul-experiences-notes-2010.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 it's not so much the desire to know everything as much as it is the desire to debunk my fears about possible christian validity, If i feel like there are any loose ends that seem plausible or like it's a boost to christianity being right, i feel like i must completely dismantle it before i can move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggy Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Find the answer yourself. No one else has. Like all other discoveries, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Dude, the thing that a lot of people, me included, are able to do is to tackle the larger issues of Christianity and once they are debunked, then none of the rest of it carries any weight. So, for example, once one sees that the Jesus character in the four gospels is a mythological character who never really existed, then the details in other areas really don't matter because the whole religion falls apart. Your problem appears to be that you get bogged down in the details and those details trip you up. Step back and look at the larger picture and don't get bogged down in trivia like whether the three frogs in Revelation 16 represent extraterrestrials who are really demons. And, by the way, they don't represent that at all. If you feel like you need it, I'll do an analysis of Revelation 16 for you and address the details you want from me. But please let me know that you need that as I don't want to do it unless it is something that is important to you. And if you do need it, give me adequate time. If you want me to do it, then I'll add an analysis of Revelation 16 on this thread: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44234-top-ten-reasons-not-to-fear-biblical-end-times-scenarios/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'm just afraid that unless i get rid of all my doubts, that i won't be able to not believe or that somehow i will be seduced by fear later on (end times stuff) Like i don't believe that if i don't have a concrete answer to something like this, that i will be able to believe the rest of what i have come to think. Like this one doubt about this part in the bible undermines everything else for some reason. Like if i don't have an answer for this, than i can't trust my knowledge/thoughts about anything else about the bible. I know that probably doesn't make much sense, but in my mind, it seems like if i don't have the answer to something like this, even though it's one verse in the bible, and before this i've been shown many examples of biblical inferiority, that i won't be able to just let go. That somehow this little thing will ruin any future peace on the issue altogether. You shouldn't have to do it though, i'm just afraid i won't be able to move past this, you know? Like if i don't have this one detail i won't be able to not believe in it, as crazy as that sounds...i don't know it's so weird and full of emotions and fear for me. I don't want to go back, but i'm scared i will if i don't have every thing "squared away" Whether this is realistic or not, i don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciencemike Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 A bit tired here but hopefully my post may make some sense... It might be good to just step back a bit and and re-orientate your worldview, clearing it of any previous conceptions about the nature of reality so that no trace of the previous supernatural xtian stuff remains. Avoid all apologetic websites, etc. Think of it as a mental reboot and operating system wipe. You live in a physical world that, as far we know, follows physical laws. No demons are under the bed, or in the closet, or anywhere on this planet. Take a deep breath and don't worry about the supernatural for a moment, focus only on what is here. This mentally prepares us for the next step... Since we have placed the supernatural in a separate mental compartment, lets think about the Bible. It was written >2000 years ago by an Iron age culture and most of its future 'predictions' might as well come from a dude who huffed too much happy gas (i.e. Revelations) like the Oracles of Delphi. As far as the extraterrestrials go, it seems like it would be a stretch that they would be following the layout of Judea-Christian beliefs. While it would be fascinating if the extraterrestrial hypothesis were decisively concluded to be a valid physical phenomena (it would certainly change our entire understanding of the universe) currently the issue is pretty inconclusive, but lets speculate for a moment. If an extraterrestrial race were to form a space-faring civilization and visit Earth, what is the likelihood that their own religious beliefs would point toward the particular monotheism that Christianity establishes? That sounds pretty slim considering the vast variety of religions here on Earth. If the extraterrestrials themselves are Bibledemons, then we are screwed. Bring out the guided missiles and hope that the UFOs don't do those crazy 90 degree turns on us. The chance of this happening in our own physical reality? Very, very small (the previous suggestion sounds more likely). If this is all in our minds, then we should take more chill pills. Whatever the truth is behind the UFO/abduction phenomena, don't let the lack of knowledge/uncertainty cause you to doubt your decision making process (and this goes with all things, not just the UFOs)... there will always be unknowns in the universe tl:dr God is dead, Jesus wont come back except in Zombie form, in which case we will need to arm ourselves for the impending Zombiepocalyse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Dude, I know my initial post was very simple and basic and easier said than accepted, but I really do think that this is about you, your anxiety and your self doubt, a lack of belief in yourself rather than evidence and truth. Florduh made the point I was thinking much better than I: You're smart and have a good grasp of the facts and even reality. Still, you have a fear that everything you know is somehow wrong. I think it's a mistake to limit this problem to a religious one. It is one of many possible irrational fears, and religion is a symptom and manifestation but not necessarily the cause of your irrational fear. I suspect that you will just go round and round in circles finding new arguments to cause you to doubt yourself, new 'evidence' to make you afraid and ongoing questioning of everything you think and why. If you don't trust your own judgement and don't trust yourself to look at the nigger evidential picture before you and to make good decisions based then you will find yourself in this situation repeatedly. The way I see it is that you have been brought up not to trust your own instincts, to deny your own emotions and to deny your own judgement. You have grown up in a world that has had a specific moral code and specific world view and when you have questioned this or it has gone against what you see before you (as happens to all children brought up in christianity) you have been told that *your* interpretation of what is before you is incorrect and given the religious explanation. You have been continually undermined to the extent that you can no longer know when you are 'right' and when you are 'wrong' and you have also been conditioned to think that there definitely *is* a right and wrong answer - an absolute truth and a need to know it and therefore live 'under' it. The fear comes not only from the threat of hell and judgement, a belief in demons and satan and all the other christian crap but also because you don't believe that you can ever be confident in your own judgement and decisions or free of this all consuming anxiety and uncertainty. It's like it's eating at you inside. Or thats the impression I get anyway. I've felt similar and suicidal as a result. I dealt with it by looking beyond the existential angst and focussing on me and why I felt and acted the way I did. I've had to go through therapy to do this and spend an awful lot of time talking with friends (mostly online via email) and being encouraged and affirmed in who I am first before being able to really get a grasp of what I believe and have confidence in my decisions. I think if you could pull your thoughts away from all of this spiritual stuff and just take a look at you and where *you* are at you may find you can take a better handle on the doubt and fear and anxiety.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjj Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Try reading 'Paranormality' by Richard Wiseman. He is a Psychologist at University College London. He couldn't get a US publisher for this because so many people in the US believe in the paranormal. So he's self published it in Kindle format. It goes into some detail about how paranormal experiences arise from brain functions - including Alien abductions. You might want to look at examples of alleged alien abductions that have occurred in other cultures - i'm sure these won't have christian themes. I've never heard that aliens look like frogs. Aliens encounters are the modern manifestations of the faery myth. Not that I beleive in Aliens or fairies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyString Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Try reading 'Paranormality' by Richard Wiseman. He is a Psychologist at University College London. He couldn't get a US publisher for this because so many people in the US believe in the paranormal. So he's self published it in Kindle format. It goes into some detail about how paranormal experiences arise from brain functions - including Alien abductions. There is a great deal that we don't know about the human brain, but I think paranormal and supernatural experiences do arise from functions of the brain. Dude, it also may be of some help to you to do some research on sleep paralysis. This happens to me sometimes, and I've experienced some really weird things during an episode. It can seem very real at the time and very scary. More than once I've seen (or should I say, dreamed) about aliens, and I've noticed this seems to happen when I've seen something recently about UFOs or aliens on TV. Other times I will wake up sensing a strange presence in the room and not be able to move or speak. It's a really unpleasant feeling, but I don't believe it to be anything outside of my own brain. I think sleep paralysis can explain a lot of abduction stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think sleep paralysis can explain a lot of abduction stories. I used to have sleep paralysis episodes. Since I believed so strongly in demons I though they were in the room attacking me. Sometimes it felt like they would pull me out of my body and throw me around the room. It seemed very real and was VERY terrifying. I can see how someone who believes in aliens could feel like they were abducted. Lots of strange things can happen in sleep paralysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 But there's no therapy for religious issues. They must remain silent on the matter or else breach ethics. I say this because i know from experience, they aren't trained to deal with this sort of thing, they can't tell you how to deal with issues of faith or the supernatural. My therapist tells me how to deal with religious issues all the time. She makes it very clear she does not believe in any of this Christian stuff. She suggests compassion and letting go and making my own way. Granted, she wont debate philosophy with me for very long, but she doesn't mince words about her background and faith--or lack thereof, in her case. Perhaps it is an ethical issue, but I reckon the bigger issue for therapists in your neck of the woods is that outing themselves as anything other than Christian would be career suicide. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyString Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think sleep paralysis can explain a lot of abduction stories. I used to have sleep paralysis episodes. Since I believed so strongly in demons I though they were in the room attacking me. Sometimes it felt like they would pull me out of my body and throw me around the room. It seemed very real and was VERY terrifying. I can see how someone who believes in aliens could feel like they were abducted. Lots of strange things can happen in sleep paralysis. Tell me about it. The worst part is that there isn't anything you can do because you can't move or speak or anything. It does seem real when it's happening. It doesn't last long though, only a couple minutes...but sometimes that seems like forever. Thankfully it doesn't happen to me too often, and I'm not really sure what triggers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 i must completely dismantle it before i can move on Or you can limit your exposure to Bible stuff. Don't go looking for trouble, but when trouble finds you (and trouble always finds each person in this world, right? Everyone has some hard times, and we learn over time to tackle those experiences.), you address it with your resources. One of your resources is the people here. I think I remember you looking at some youtube videos when you were debunking some other issues. You get through that issue, and then you live your life. You ignore Bible stuff until something just really hooks you, and then you use your resources to address it. Then time goes by and you live your life. And then something else will hook you, and you use your resources. The way you know you can get through the debunking process is that you have successfully debunked issues before. Deal with them as they come along. It is hard, and you can do it. One at a time. Don't go looking for it. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatBallou Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 This is why I have no respect for biblegod. Besides sabotaging efforts to live the cookie-cutter model life that other people find it their business to dictate, biblegod remains obscure, invisible, and uses things that have no physical evidence that is accepted as proof. But biblegod and company likes to boast of his own omnipotence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatBallou Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 "Aliens encounters are the modern manifestations of the faery myth." Great parallel! Keith Donohue's The Stolen Child inspired me to write a college term paper on the creepy old European fairy/changling myths. I found that they were a convenient excuse for peasants to abuse and kill their sick and deformed children. I'd like to know more about how alien encounters tie in with fairies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think sleep paralysis can explain a lot of abduction stories. I used to have sleep paralysis episodes. Since I believed so strongly in demons I though they were in the room attacking me. Sometimes it felt like they would pull me out of my body and throw me around the room. It seemed very real and was VERY terrifying. I can see how someone who believes in aliens could feel like they were abducted. Lots of strange things can happen in sleep paralysis. Tell me about it. The worst part is that there isn't anything you can do because you can't move or speak or anything. It does seem real when it's happening. It doesn't last long though, only a couple minutes...but sometimes that seems like forever. Thankfully it doesn't happen to me too often, and I'm not really sure what triggers it. I've heard just waking up for a little while and then going back to sleep can trigger it. It's a defense mechanism for the body to not act out the dream, or something like that. I've woken up in my dreams a few times, and wow that's interesting. You know your dreaming so, you can do whatever you want. But yes expereincign what you believe is demons is not fun at all. People all over the world suffer from episodes because of that belief. I hope it catches on that man is the real demon and we have to take some responsibility instead of living in superstitious fear. Needing to treating yourself and others right has nothing to do with gods or myths. The gods can watch if they want. throw us some love, but we're the gods that make our own miracles. Like getting through the bullshit of crazy Charismatic superstition!! It's definitely possible to let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 "what if you're wrong" "what if this is evidence" or most of all "You'll never be able to live happily until you get an answer to this...." Ok, what if you are wrong? What if you had irrefutable proof right now that you are wrong? What would you be doing different? Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Dave Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Even though this is a misquotation of the verse....the original KJV version has it saying "....3 unclean spirits LIKE frogs..." with no "looking" like part What does the original Greek say? Revelation was written in Greek. Have you considered the possibility that the people who write websites and books about alien abductions might have made up stories that would fit with Biblical prophecies on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HickoryGrove Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 "I'm sure many people here probably don't know what i'm talking about, or probably haven't ran across the fear mongering i have" So many of us have been and are still going through what you are going through. Hang in there. Stay part of this support group. I personally consider it a place of refuge. Often times we have a tendancy to gravitate back to that which is unhealthy due to familiarity and influence. Loneliness can be a compelling factor. Don't be so hard on yourself. Allow yourself to evolve in your thinking. You are not alone in your processing of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HickoryGrove Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I totally concur. Good perspective. That picture posted by LivingLife demonstrates the "loving" god of the bible? Far from it. It demonstrates something else. How can a Christian reconcile that picture with his/her concept of bible god? They try and try, but they can't. One can only understand the picture when one comes to accept that this god does not exist. That's when the reality of our situation comes into focus. Things like that starving child can only be explained by our human apathy and has nothing whatsoever to do with any divine being. No god is the cause nor the solution. And that's your dose of reality for the day. Do with it as you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 honestly this stuff really doesn't bother me so much anymore, really i'm just having a general anxiety about being wrong, like a vague dread. @ Phanta, well if i had evidence? I honestly have no idea, i still would probably not want to be a christian, but i might just out of fear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ireckinso Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I very rarely have fears or doubts anymore. I mean sure, I might watch a movie that has some sort of God does exist revelation near the end and think, hmm maybe...wait......naaahhhhh. The thought to me barely even makes it out of my brain before I realize how dumb the idea is. There are days when I have depression but that is usually because I drank too much the night before and the chemical imbalance in by system is dragging me down. I usually just pick up the golf clubs and head to the driving range for an hour or so and it goes away. I believe I have an advantage as my wife/best friend is of the same opinion as me. We tend to put our efforts into things like, budgeting money, planning get togethers, cooking out, going golfing, staying at the tiki hut in the back yard and throwing darts with friends or by ourselves. We used to play WOW together, quest, lvl, and raid together but we got burnt out on that after we bought our new house and had more things to do like landscaping and building our own little island get away in the back yard which has been 2 years in the making now and only half way done, but thats the best part of it. Enjoying the ride to get there. I also have a few close friends who aren't religious which helps. I live in south/west part of Virginia where there is either a church or bank on every street corner. Amazingly I hear very little about being a xtian. Maybe everyone here just assumes everyone else is. I do have co-workers who are big time xtians but they know my opinion and leave it be. Every now and then I hear a comment from one of them but I shrug it off and look forward to going home to my wife and cooking out and throwing darts, or building a fire, working in the garden and never pay it any attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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