Why Do You Follow A Genocidal God?

[Phanta]

Also, I am not committing genocide. You are grossly twisting the definition. Grossly.

 

What ancient tribes did to other ancient tribes was often clearly genocide. Mass slaughter; mass assimilation, etc. as part of conquest. Why God would directly support and encourage such is a reasonable thing to struggle over, especially as our species seeks to overcome such wholesale murderous tendencies.

 

Phanta

 

Your not getting my point......nor God's I believe.....i.e, death to amoral behavior. Again, by the same argument utilized here, that if you are raised Christian, then you will likely BECOME a Christian, then if you are raised in an amoral environment, you will likely BE amoral. This is not a stretch.

 

So, you are saying, from God's point of view, and your point of view as a Christian, the infant and child victims of God-ordered genocide were destined by the legacy of their people/upbringing to be an immoral scourge on God's earth and needed to be decimated, wholesale. In other words, sometimes genocide just makes good sense. In the words of Kurtz, "Exterminate the brutes!" Is that about right?

 

And yes, to the "suspension", as a Christian here, you never know what's going to touch a nerve to garner suspension.....especially in a topic like genocide.

 

Ok, but this time, that was not the case. I saw the same message. It was a server issue.

 

Phanta

[buffettphan]

I also had the 'account suspended' message last night.

But all is well today.

[ScifiChick]

Also, I am not committing genocide. You are grossly twisting the definition. Grossly.

 

What ancient tribes did to other ancient tribes was often clearly genocide. Mass slaughter; mass assimilation, etc. as part of conquest. Why God would directly support and encourage such is a reasonable thing to struggle over, especially as our species seeks to overcome such wholesale murderous tendencies.

 

Phanta

 

Your not getting my point......nor God's I believe.....i.e, death to amoral behavior. Again, by the same argument utilized here, that if you are raised Christian, then you will likely BECOME a Christian, then if you are raised in an amoral environment, you will likely BE amoral. This is not a stretch.

 

 

So God couldn't just kill them? He has to get other human beings to kill them brutally? Then what did Hitler do that was so wrong? He seems to think he heard from God. How is that any different than the tribes in the Old Testament?

 

 

 

[chosendarkness]

 

 

So, you are saying, from God's point of view, and your point of view as a Christian, the infant and child victims of God-ordered genocide were destined by the legacy of their people/upbringing to be an immoral scourge on God's earth and needed to be decimated, wholesale. In other words, sometimes genocide just makes good sense. In the words of Kurtz, "Exterminate the brutes!" Is that about right?

According to God's word, they were very very bad people, so every man woman and child deserved to be killed. God's word can't be wrong, and neither can God, so it must have been logical to slaughter all those heathens.

 

Even though I had never thought about it, that's pretty much what I believed about the Old Testament when I was a Christian. Makes me even more thankful for where I am today.

[ScifiChick]

So, you are saying, from God's point of view, and your point of view as a Christian, the infant and child victims of God-ordered genocide were destined by the legacy of their people/upbringing to be an immoral scourge on God's earth and needed to be decimated, wholesale. In other words, sometimes genocide just makes good sense. In the words of Kurtz, "Exterminate the brutes!" Is that about right?

According to God's word, they were very very bad people, so every man woman and child deserved to be killed. God's word can't be wrong, and neither can God, so it must have been logical to slaughter all those heathens.

 

Even though I had never thought about it, that's pretty much what I believed about the Old Testament when I was a Christian. Makes me even more thankful for where I am today.

 

So all the evil people are dead now and we can relax, because the cleansing worked really well.

[Phanta]

 

 

So, you are saying, from God's point of view, and your point of view as a Christian, the infant and child victims of God-ordered genocide were destined by the legacy of their people/upbringing to be an immoral scourge on God's earth and needed to be decimated, wholesale. In other words, sometimes genocide just makes good sense. In the words of Kurtz, "Exterminate the brutes!" Is that about right?

According to God's word, they were very very bad people, so every man woman and child deserved to be killed. God's word can't be wrong, and neither can God, so it must have been logical to slaughter all those heathens.

 

Even though I had never thought about it, that's pretty much what I believed about the Old Testament when I was a Christian. Makes me even more thankful for where I am today.

 

Sure, and every tribe or nation that slaughtered every other tribe or nation wholesale could (and often did) say and believe the same. God told them it was a righteous kill. God's army. Kill or be killed. No other choice. When people act like this now, it is called a crime against humanity, and they are considered beneath contempt, but somehow those at the root of our pet religious beliefs were holy, the behaviors honored and celebrated. Weird, huh?

 

I'm glad you are where you are today, too.

 

Phanta

 

Phanta

[Phanta]

So, you are saying, from God's point of view, and your point of view as a Christian, the infant and child victims of God-ordered genocide were destined by the legacy of their people/upbringing to be an immoral scourge on God's earth and needed to be decimated, wholesale. In other words, sometimes genocide just makes good sense. In the words of Kurtz, "Exterminate the brutes!" Is that about right?

According to God's word, they were very very bad people, so every man woman and child deserved to be killed. God's word can't be wrong, and neither can God, so it must have been logical to slaughter all those heathens.

 

Even though I had never thought about it, that's pretty much what I believed about the Old Testament when I was a Christian. Makes me even more thankful for where I am today.

 

So all the evil people are dead now and we can relax, because the cleansing worked really well.

 

Ha! Well, it took a while for God to figure out genocide wasn't going to work for fixing up the human race. Hey, we all make mistakes. Oh wait...

[Kaiser01]

Definition of RELIGION

1a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

 

Agnosticator et al.,

 

For one, we didn't agree to any definition. #'s two and four here can, IMO, have a particular meaning outside of the belief in God meaning....for example, "he religously drank his coffee".

 

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that when we are talking genocide, what pops into everyone's head is the definition we are familiar with....mostly Hitler's idea of genocide....and I think most people think of that version as the systematic killing based on race or ethnicity....if I am understanding the Hitler concept.

 

So when it comes to the Bible, my understanding is not that God cleared the slate based on this version, but cleared the slate based on amoral values. Going back to the defintion of genocide that I posted:

 

United Nations Genocide Convention (in force 12 January 1951)

 

Article 2:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

 

(a) Killing members of the group;

( Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© Deliberately infliciting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

 

the emphasis would be on a religious group, those practicing an amoral religion.

 

.Many might not see it that way, but placing God in the Hitler group is leading at best and shows an ignorant bias.....IMO of course

 

Btw, my computer told me last night that my account had been suspended. I expected that I had crossed the line somehow with me being associated as some genocidal sympathizer based on the discussion. For the record, I'm not a genocide proponent but do believe in it via the "in part" definition of the occasional capital punishment.

 

And for the record, I enjoy a good debate/discussion and a little name calling, but in good spirit. Certainly it gets heated from time to time, and I realize people have been hurt by Christianity, but that certainly is not the point of my discussion, to further hurt folks. I have a few friends here and value the relationships, some good, and even some bad, AS a value in my life, so again, it's an effort to discuss for the sport of discussion rather than an intention to hurt people that are already hurt.

 

So, by all means, carry on in your ignorant bias by placing God in the genocidal maniac group. (This is teasing in good spirit, of course).

 

so are you saying some people are more worthy to die than others? by saying gods genocides are better than hittlers is saying that some people were justified to be exterminated. how could you posibly belive this...o wait christians do agree with the idea of superior race. you itheir acept the christian way of life or you get exterminated in a place called hell. so why does your god need to exterminate people in the first place? why dosnt he come up with a better solution than that? to say god could not have helped make the world a better place rather than rip it apart is to doubt your gods all powerfull ominicant powers. so why do you consider your god more justified in killing people than hitler? i see god as being more acountable to humanity than hitler becuase he has power to make the situation better through a peacful way yet he kills babies instead.

 

saying god was justified to kill people for their way of life is pointless. if god is so worried and desprate about this then why did he make sin in the first place witch deserved genocide?

 

genocide is not some rule of law, somthing that must exist. it is a birth of the three words "us" and "them" witch christianity condones. it origionates from a belief of collective survival agianst a another people group what ever propoganda is used to create this. if you look at any of the genocides in the bible there is allways a posible economic or political gain, look at king saul in your bible he commited genocide agianst the amalikites for what ever economic gain and looks like he used god as the propoganda to get the people to fight.

[AlphaToOmega]

 

Btw, my computer told me last night that my account had been suspended. I expected that I had crossed the line somehow with me being associated as some genocidal sympathizer based on the discussion. For the record, I'm not a genocide proponent but do believe in it via the "in part" definition of the occasional capital punishment.

 

Yeah, God tried to stop you embarrassing him on this thread by bringing up his homicidal and genocidal history.

Luckily for us WebDave has more power than your God and resurrected this site.

Oh glory WebDave. There are none above you.

[Guest end3]

So, you are saying, from God's point of view, and your point of view as a Christian, the infant and child victims of God-ordered genocide were destined by the legacy of their people/upbringing to be an immoral scourge on God's earth and needed to be decimated, wholesale. In other words, sometimes genocide just makes good sense. In the words of Kurtz, "Exterminate the brutes!" Is that about right?

According to God's word, they were very very bad people, so every man woman and child deserved to be killed. God's word can't be wrong, and neither can God, so it must have been logical to slaughter all those heathens.

 

Even though I had never thought about it, that's pretty much what I believed about the Old Testament when I was a Christian. Makes me even more thankful for where I am today.

 

So all the evil people are dead now and we can relax, because the cleansing worked really well.

 

Ha! Well, it took a while for God to figure out genocide wasn't going to work for fixing up the human race. Hey, we all make mistakes. Oh wait...

 

Isn't that the point sweetheart, that you learn from your mistakes? And that as the Creator, He certainly DOES have the right to do anything. Many of you don't give the title of God the power it deserves, Christian or not. And the point is, and HAS been, "like forever now", is that humanity has to have their way, including all of us. If the story holds, then at that time, if you failed, you died. Do you people not READ the Bible, that only through Christ's intervention that grace has an age? And here we are again, "my way or the highway". God is impotent. If He were immediately in you presence and not only a myth in today's society, you would be singing a different tune. AND THE KICKER, for you that can't get the story straight.......there will be death for the amoral, including me, at some point in the future.

 

So at LEAST get the story straight before you rail on dear old God.

[Guest end3]

 

Btw, my computer told me last night that my account had been suspended. I expected that I had crossed the line somehow with me being associated as some genocidal sympathizer based on the discussion. For the record, I'm not a genocide proponent but do believe in it via the "in part" definition of the occasional capital punishment.

 

Yeah, God tried to stop you embarrassing him on this thread by bringing up his homicidal and genocidal history.

Luckily for us WebDave has more power than your God and resurrected this site.

Oh glory WebDave. There are none above you.

 

 

Better to be faithful than a quitter.

[Guest end3]

You know, the same stubborness that drive the bias ignorance is the same stubborness that can't read the definition that says "in whole or in part" and decide that killing one man is genocide just like killing the entire race.

 

Keep it up, you condemn others by holding on to this hardheadedness. And before you say, "oh, just like yours?" Yeah, bonehead, just like mine, but at least one of us admits to such. And, if the story is that Jesus is God, you know, the fundamental thing,...... where/what exactly are the ideas that Jesus put forth that you don't agree with? Hell, we are even under grace to decide what direction we choose.

 

If there is no God, the certainly none of it holds, but if there is, and it is the Christian God, then why do non-believers move exactly towards some moral absolute that believers do, but only denying God. You know everything? Shit, AtoO, you know it all?

 

Of course you do.

[chosendarkness]

If He were immediately in you presence and not only a myth in today's society, you would be singing a different tune

 

If the bible God was not a myth, and I had the priveledge to stand before him.. that would be so wonderful. I'd have to think of something really good to say, but it woulld be along the lines of 'fuck you, dick'. I would go to hell with a smile on my face knowing that at least I stood up for myself and did what was right.

[Guest end3]

If He were immediately in you presence and not only a myth in today's society, you would be singing a different tune

 

If the bible God was not a myth, and I had the priveledge to stand before him.. that would be so wonderful. I'd have to think of something really good to say, but it woulld be along the lines of 'fuck you, dick'. I would go to hell with a smile on my face knowing that at least I stood up for myself and did what was right.

 

I rest my case.

[chosendarkness]

If He were immediately in you presence and not only a myth in today's society, you would be singing a different tune

 

If the bible God was not a myth, and I had the priveledge to stand before him.. that would be so wonderful. I'd have to think of something really good to say, but it woulld be along the lines of 'fuck you, dick'. I would go to hell with a smile on my face knowing that at least I stood up for myself and did what was right.

 

I rest my case.

 

Thank god.

[Phanta]

Isn't that the point sweetheart, that you learn from your mistakes?

 

A god that makes mistakes isn't perfect. If you believe that God exists and is perfect, then obliterating whole groups of people is not a failed attempt of God. It has to be framed differently, perhaps as a failure of humankind...humankind perhaps trending in a direction that it can't come back from without exterminating a whole branch of brutes. That's a tidier explanation for genocide and retains more of God's perfection. A bad hive diseased beyond salvaging needs exterminating.

 

 

And that as the Creator, He certainly DOES have the right to do anything.

 

Why?

 

Many of you don't give the title of God the power it deserves, Christian or not.

 

Might does not equal right. It does not equal justice. It equals power.

 

And the point is, and HAS been, "like forever now", is that humanity has to have their way, including all of us. If the story holds, then at that time, if you failed, you died.

 

Immediately? Like, you sinned and were zapped into oblivion? Like when Abraham had intercourse with his handmaiden and he was instantly killed? Like when Lot fornicated with his daughters? They were all killed instantly? Or do you mean in the sense that everyone dies eventually, because that WAS true. Still is.

 

Do you people not READ the Bible, that only through Christ's intervention that grace has an age?

 

Thank goodness someone came along with an idea that has helped stop all of that barbaric tribal genocide! Weird that they still call old-time genocide God-guided though...very weird.

 

And here we are again, "my way or the highway". God is impotent. If He were immediately in you presence and not only a myth in today's society, you would be singing a different tune.

 

Yeah, if He were Real and Active in my Life and not a figment of your imagination, everything would be very different. I agree. True that. Word up.

 

AND THE KICKER, for you that can't get the story straight.......there will be death for the amoral, including me, at some point in the future.

 

So at LEAST get the story straight before you rail on dear old God.

[ScifiChick]

 

 

Isn't that the point sweetheart, that you learn from your mistakes? And that as the Creator, He certainly DOES have the right to do anything. Many of you don't give the title of God the power it deserves, Christian or not. And the point is, and HAS been, "like forever now", is that humanity has to have their way, including all of us. If the story holds, then at that time, if you failed, you died. Do you people not READ the Bible, that only through Christ's intervention that grace has an age? And here we are again, "my way or the highway". God is impotent. If He were immediately in you presence and not only a myth in today's society, you would be singing a different tune. AND THE KICKER, for you that can't get the story straight.......there will be death for the amoral, including me, at some point in the future.

 

So at LEAST get the story straight before you rail on dear old God.

 

You make no sense. We've got the story straight. Let me break it down for you again. According to the Bible, God uses genocide as a method for solving his problems. And the definition of genocide we're using is destruction of a race not killing one person.

 

The premise here is that God has created humans with more morality than he has. We refuse to serve an evil tyrant. You happily serve an evil tyrant, and the OP is asking you why. You have derailed this thread in every possible way all while refusing to answer a straightforward question in a straightforward manner. And now you want to say we're the hard headed ones and we don't admit it, but because you admit it, that's okay. Show some evidence that we are hard headed - wait, don't. Just answer the question you were asked way back at the beginning of this thread: Why do you follow a genocidal god?!!!

 

 

 

[Noggy]

If BibleGod is real, then 95% of his creation is in hell. I would consider that a win for God! Good job god!

[florduh]

I rest my case.

Sure, you say that but I bet you keep posting anyway

[AlphaToOmega]

You know, the same stubborness that drive the bias ignorance is the same stubborness that can't read the definition that says "in whole or in part" and decide that killing one man is genocide just like killing the entire race.

 

You really need to learn reading comprehension.

 

Keep it up' date=' you condemn others by holding on to this hardheadedness. And before you say, "oh, just like yours?" Yeah, bonehead, just like mine, but at least one of us admits to such. And, if the story is that Jesus is God, you know, the fundamental thing,...... where/what exactly are the ideas that Jesus put forth that you don't agree with? Hell, we are even under grace to decide what direction we choose.

[/quote']

 

The god of your bible and religion is a figment of peoples imagination.

I condemn the actions of a fictional character in a fictional work just like I condemn any one's evil character in a work of fiction.

The condemnation is for a non living non existing character.

 

The part that really gets me is that when some read that work of fiction then agree with the perpetrator of the crimes I wonder what hope is there for the human species.

The lack of complete morals and the endless justifications for doing acts of evil.

 

 

If there is no God' date=' the certainly none of it holds, but if there is, and it is the Christian God, then why do non-believers move exactly towards some moral absolute that believers do, but only denying God. You know everything? Shit, AtoO, you know it all?

 

Of course you do.

[/quote']

 

 

Let me again point out the flaws in your logic. For someone who claims you are in the sciences you are severely lacking in that fundamental skill.

You keep asking question for which the question itself already has a conclusion.

"but if there is, and it is the Christian God, then...bla bla bla"

You want me to answer a question from the POV that its already a given fact that God exists and is the Christian God yet you admit already that the question holds no weight if there is no God or if that God is not the Christian God.

IOW, you want an answer in the realm of the fantasy.

 

 

I know when I smell bullshit. Christianity stinks of it. I can smell it back through millennia it is that much of a stench.

 

You accuse me of knowing it all. That's really amusing. Anyone who knows me at all knows I love to be shown to be wrong. If I am wrong then I have still things to learn.

Life to me is done if I have nothing left to learn. The best way I have found to learn and to be able to trust what I've learned is through the use of logic not fantasy.

You should try it some time.

 

Ask yourself some questions that start with, "What if God didn't exist?", "What if God wasn't actually the Christian God?"

 

See where that lands you. You'll be forced to learn about other religions. About other points of view and all about somethings you seem to have a lot of trouble with, reality and logic.

 

You accuse me of knowing it all while you yourself defend the unknown based on nothing but the hope that what was written is right.

Good luck with that.

 

Set your mind free. Open your mind to logic and let the conclusions dawn on you. Why do you insist on a life of fantasy?

They should rename Stockholm Syndrome to the Christian Syndrome. You are a victim and don't even want to acknowledge it.

Learn critical thinking, set your mind free from the prison of Christianity.

I think you can do it. You're part way there. that's why you hang out here. That's why you want to debate. That's why you love it when others pound you with logic and reality and that's why you keep coming back for more.

 

I have spoken.

 

*edited to fix typos due to big fingers, small keyboard and a crappy shift key.*

[agnosticator]

Agnosticator et al.,

 

For one, we didn't agree to any definition. #'s two and four here can, IMO, have a particular meaning outside of the belief in God meaning....for example, "he religously drank his coffee".

 

Oh, OK.

 

So when it comes to the Bible, my understanding is not that God cleared the slate based on this version, but cleared the slate based on amoral values.

 

I don't know what you mean. Do you mean amoral as in, unrelated to moral or ethical considerations, or nonmoral?

 

 

Btw, my computer told me last night that my account had been suspended.

 

I got the message that the site account was suspended.

 

 

And that as the Creator, He certainly DOES have the right to do anything. Many of you don't give the title of God the power it deserves, Christian or not.....God is impotent. If He were immediately in you presence and not only a myth in today's society, you would be singing a different tune. AND THE KICKER, for you that can't get the story straight.......there will be death for the amoral, including me, at some point in the future.

 

Let me chime in and say what I believe if a God exists. The matter/energy which we are made of cannot be created or destroyed, and that goes for all matter including water. They just change forms, making them eternal. The power of nature forms and rules life in a totally different way than the idea of the biblegod. The force of life within nature is a mystery, and that's where I would think a God would reside. The biblegod is like a supernatural human ruler who dictates his will to every human from outside of nature. We better think and act in accordance to what He expects or else He will torture us in another dimension, or place in the supernatural.

 

I don't see God being a mind with a personality that is over and above living things, and that expects those beings to do what God desires. Actually, I would say there are no personal expectations from God. God makes all life possible, and so we live through God, God being within life itself by being the life-force, wave/particle duality somehow. We are the expression of God, being both good and "evil", just as Nature is. God has no eyes to see, ears to hear, nose to smell, mind to think with. But God is where life comes from, and the force that makes it possible. We evolve at God's bidding through the tree of life we cal evolution. The major religions of the world put the cart before the horse, so to speak. They see the whole thing backwards.

 

Of course, I have no knowledge to prove this. I don't really believe what I said is right, but that's what I would like to believe.

[Phanta]

Agnosticator et al.,

 

For one, we didn't agree to any definition. #'s two and four here can, IMO, have a particular meaning outside of the belief in God meaning....for example, "he religously drank his coffee".

 

Oh, OK.

 

So when it comes to the Bible, my understanding is not that God cleared the slate based on this version, but cleared the slate based on amoral values.

 

I don't know what you mean. Do you mean amoral as in, unrelated to moral or ethical considerations, or nonmoral?

 

Yeah, amoral means morally neutral....so I don't get it, either. God cleared the slate based on morally neutral values. Maybe a couple examples would help?

 

Phanta

[Guest end3]

Agnosticator et al.,

 

For one, we didn't agree to any definition. #'s two and four here can, IMO, have a particular meaning outside of the belief in God meaning....for example, "he religously drank his coffee".

 

Oh, OK.

 

So when it comes to the Bible, my understanding is not that God cleared the slate based on this version, but cleared the slate based on amoral values.

 

I don't know what you mean. Do you mean amoral as in, unrelated to moral or ethical considerations, or nonmoral?

 

Yeah, amoral means morally neutral....so I don't get it, either. God cleared the slate based on morally neutral values. Maybe a couple examples would help?

 

Phanta

 

Immoral, my bad.

[Tabula Rasa]

Greatest I am, forgive me for stating the obvious, but a lot of people worship the Genocidal God because they're too terrified not to. Even before the idea of hell was invented, you still had people fearing that if they didn't obey said God they' be cursed with disease, or famine, or suffer violent death at it's hands.

[Greatest I am]

God doesn't commit crimes. When he violently murders elderly people and babies, encourages rape of little girls, he must have had a good reason. He also has a good reason for not doing anything when a little girl is crying out to him for help when she's being tortured and raped. He's trying to teach her a life lesson.

 

He's also stopping evil that could have happened.

Hitler, Satlin and the others simply slipped through while he was busy chatting with Jesus about coming a second time.

 

We should praise God for all the wonderful things he does. Fall prostrate before him, and let him do you up the ass.

 

God can do what he wants. He is after all God.

It is this or using some other mans woman/Mary, his own mother.

 

http://imgur.com/a/90sTN

 

Regards

DL

 

Sex with animals is a sin. Even fundamentalists know that. The godly thing to do is to kill a tasty young virgin's entire family and then rape her repeatedly. That's obviously not a sin when the people are heathens.

 

Christians will have to re-write the Bible.

Love you neighbor but not if he is a heathen.

 

You also have to remember that Christians cannot be against bestiality.

After all. God is not of our species. We are base animals to his haughty self and by his actions has used other species for reproduction.

 

 

 

Regards

DL