Why Do You Follow A Genocidal God?

[Greatest I am]

Why do you follow a genocidal God?

 

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK1DbcIbHt4&playnext=1&list=PLC76727A34E740D99

 

I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

 

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.

 

 

Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

 

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

 

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

 

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

 

What attracts you to a genocidal God?

Is it just that might makes right?

 

We are to emulate God.

Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

 

Regards

DL

[Guest end3]

Why do you follow a genocidal God?

 

Bible God, the un-knowable one, has been described in scriptures by someone claiming to know much of the un-knowable God. How the un-knowable can be know has yet to shown. On reading scriptures, some have concluded that Bible God is quite immoral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK1DbcIbHt4&playnext=1&list=PLC76727A34E740D99

 

I tend to agree based on moral reasons and would like to keep the discussion on morality without going into whether God is real or not. Something that we cannot prove. We can prove though whether we think Bible God acted morally or not.

 

The first followers of Bible God, the Jews, also seem to agree with Dawkins and myself.

 

 

Genocide, or attempted genocide is considered by most to be a low moral position.

 

Followers of a Hitler or Stalin, who would try to justify their genocidal actions, would not be well received by most of us.

 

Why then do you think that we should join you in following a God who takes the moral low ground of genocide instead of doing the right moral thing and curing instead of killing those he thinks defective?

 

As a religionist myself, I can understand seeking God but why would we want to seek, or follow a genocidal one?

 

What attracts you to a genocidal God?

Is it just that might makes right?

 

We are to emulate God.

Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

 

Regards

DL

 

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL? Me thinks this will turn into the "well, ok, but burn in hell forever death?"

[Phanta]

What does a person deserving of life look like to you, Ed? How would one go about earning their life?

[florduh]

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL?

I can't answer for DL, but though I confess that I do think some people just need to die, I also feel like I should evolve beyond that somehow. Killing people for any reason is not an enlightened response in my view. Genocide, of course, would be out of the question for any civilized person. Oddly, genocide was a mainstay in Jehovah's arsenal; the society that invented him was rather barbaric by modern standards.

[HickoryGrove]

If Hitlers command to commit genocide was imminent then his immediate death could be required to save 6 million jews. But End3 your God is a loving God that never committed genocide. Right? Oh nevermind, that's not right.

 

 

[Noggy]

 

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL? Me thinks this will turn into the "well, ok, but burn in hell forever death?"

 

Some people deserve to die. But no case can be made to kill every man woman and child of an entire race of people.

 

Oh yeah, unless you're God. Then your case is "cause i said so" and "i work in mysterious ways". Translation: Israelites needed a good reason to kill a whole shitload of people.

[Guest end3]

 

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL? Me thinks this will turn into the "well, ok, but burn in hell forever death?"

 

Some people deserve to die. But no case can be made to kill every man woman and child of an entire race of people.

 

Oh yeah, unless you're God. Then your case is "cause i said so" and "i work in mysterious ways". Translation: Israelites needed a good reason to kill a whole shitload of people.

 

 

I think the argument goes something like this: "Well, the only reason you are a Chrisitian is that you were raised in a Christian environment". But this doesn't hold true for a "evil" environment? Doesn't the research suggest children pick up on their environment at a very young age?

 

There are the "top minds" of this website that adamently hold morality as a function of society. So why wouldn't this give rise to wiping out an entire society?

[Guest end3]

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL?

I can't answer for DL, but though I confess that I do think some people just need to die, I also feel like I should evolve beyond that somehow. Killing people for any reason is not an enlightened response in my view. Genocide, of course, would be out of the question for any civilized person. Oddly, genocide was a mainstay in Jehovah's arsenal; the society that invented him was rather barbaric by modern standards.

 

I think we have visited before on this site that perhaps humanity is morally evolving to some end. I would have to review the Bible to remember the criteria for the end of this "age", but I can't help but speculate, that as is your feeing that you need to evolve past thinking some people need to die, so will humanity evolve to some end, obviously though, in a bifercated manner.

[Greatest I am]

 

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL? Me thinks this will turn into the "well, ok, but burn in hell forever death?"

 

Everlasting hell is an immoral construct that no God worth his title would create, so no, I do not think anyone deserves to suffer torture for a mistake done in .00000000000000000000000001 at the beginning of their total life span.

 

Torture without purpose is immoral.

 

Do some deserve an earthly death for their deeds? Yes.

Should we as a society kill them? No.

 

A society that says they venerate life must be seen as doing just that and execution them, ending their life, does not give that message.

 

Murderers are not raised in a vacuum and are created by the society that spawned them. We then, as a society should recognize this and pay the price for our collective contribution to making the killer what he is.

 

Regards

DL

[Greatest I am]

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL?

I can't answer for DL, but though I confess that I do think some people just need to die, I also feel like I should evolve beyond that somehow. Killing people for any reason is not an enlightened response in my view. Genocide, of course, would be out of the question for any civilized person. Oddly, genocide was a mainstay in Jehovah's arsenal; the society that invented him was rather barbaric by modern standards.

 

Well put and accurate.

Secular society has moved on to a better system and if you check the various sources, you will find that it is mostly the Abrahamic cults that fight secular progress.

 

I E. The treatment of Gays and the full equality for women.

 

Regards

DL

[freeasabird]

Can someone tell me what movie that clip is from?

[Noggy]

I think the argument goes something like this: "Well, the only reason you are a Chrisitian is that you were raised in a Christian environment". But this doesn't hold true for a "evil" environment? Doesn't the research suggest children pick up on their environment at a very young age?

 

There are the "top minds" of this website that adamently hold morality as a function of society. So why wouldn't this give rise to wiping out an entire society?

 

Most people in the united states and on this website were raised in a "christian" enviroment. A lot of us aren't christians.

 

Your argument is bullshit.

 

Edit:

 

Lets say your argument is true. And everyone in their society adopted their NonJew religion. How the FUCK is killing all of them okay? Seriously? You're saying it is just of God to kill someone because they are of a different religion.

[paul34]

 

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL? Me thinks this will turn into the "well, ok, but burn in hell forever death?"

 

Deserve death? I don't know. That genuinely treads on revenge, something that while often tempting for humans, isn't necessarily the best course of action in all scenarios.

 

After that, we get into death penalty arguments.

 

I would never kill someone because they "deserved it," but I would kill in self-defense. However, that is self-defense, not murder.

 

God would never need to defend himself. What could justify genocide? What could justify the killing of noncombatant women and children? What could justify initiating war on an entire people simply "because"? What could justify killing a man's wife and family simply because he wanted to win a puerile bet with satan?

 

Nothing. Nothing reasonable can justify these things.

[Guest end3]

I think the argument goes something like this: "Well, the only reason you are a Chrisitian is that you were raised in a Christian environment". But this doesn't hold true for a "evil" environment? Doesn't the research suggest children pick up on their environment at a very young age?

 

There are the "top minds" of this website that adamently hold morality as a function of society. So why wouldn't this give rise to wiping out an entire society?

 

Most people in the united states and on this website were raised in a "christian" enviroment. A lot of us aren't christians.

 

Your argument is bullshit.

 

Edit:

 

Lets say your argument is true. And everyone in their society adopted their NonJew religion. How the FUCK is killing all of them okay? Seriously? You're saying it is just of God to kill someone because they are of a different religion.

 

No, keep my point straight please. If my argument were true, then evil would prevail and persist. I am saying even within today's society, we execute evil people......by popular vote, religion aside. And to bring your point home.....case in point....Muslims and jihad BS. You wouldn't want to kill them for killing us, eh? Join us in the real world Noggy.

[Noggy]

 

No, keep my point straight please. If my argument were true, then evil would prevail and persist. I am saying even within today's society, we execute evil people......by popular vote, religion aside. And to bring your point home.....case in point....Muslims and jihad BS. You wouldn't want to kill them for killing us, eh? Join us in the real world Noggy.

 

But we shouldn't execute evil people. In states that aren't as religious, the death penalty tends to not be legal. Strange correlation, eh? People attracted to a genocidical god likes to have their own brand of justice put on others.

 

And no, I don't want to execute someone for killing "us". I don't believe that is correct.

 

But your argument ISNT true. And you know. There is no way every one of those women and children that god commanded murdered would turn out "evil". Seriously. Do you really believe everyone on earth during the great flood deserved to die? What happened to giving everyone a chance? Killing a child before it even has the chance to be responsible for its actions is NOT just. Sounds like a God that punishes someone for the sins of someone else. Which, btw, is unjust.

[paul34]

Killing a child before it even has the chance to be responsible for its actions is NOT just.

 

 

This is the same God that allowed Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao to be born. He surely has a strange notion of justice.

[SillyString]

Can someone tell me what movie that clip is from?

 

 

"God on Trial"

 

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1173494/

[Guest end3]

But we shouldn't execute evil people. In states that aren't as religious, the death penalty tends to not be legal. Strange correlation, eh? People attracted to a genocidical god likes to have their own brand of justice put on others.

 

You need to bring the data with that assertion Noggy.....the map I saw doesn't intuitively strike me as your statement being fact.

 

And no, I don't want to execute someone for killing "us". I don't believe that is correct.

 

Genocide can be cultural. I guess you didn't and don't support the war after 9/11 or would have supported going to war against Germany.

 

But your argument ISNT true. And you know. There is no way every one of those women and children that god commanded murdered would turn out "evil". Seriously. Do you really believe everyone on earth during the great flood deserved to die? What happened to giving everyone a chance? Killing a child before it even has the chance to be responsible for its actions is NOT just. Sounds like a God that punishes someone for the sins of someone else. Which, btw, is unjust.

 

First of all, I want to know where are all the women's libbers that are silent. Poor defenseless women who can't be evil...all they can do is be good and weak. About the children thing.....I am just mirroring the argument constantly thrown up here....."if you weren't raised a Christian, you wouldn't know what you were". So how do we know Noggy, perhaps there are children that have grown up without influence. From a scientific standpoint, do we know for a fact genetics doesn't influence morality? I'm betting it does.

 

And giving everyone a chance is a post Christ thing.

[Noggy]

First of all, I want to know where are all the women's libbers that are silent. Poor defenseless women who can't be evil...all they can do is be good and weak. About the children thing.....I am just mirroring the argument constantly thrown up here....."if you weren't raised a Christian, you wouldn't know what you were". So how do we know Noggy, perhaps there are children that have grown up without influence. From a scientific standpoint, do we know for a fact genetics doesn't influence morality? I'm betting it does.

 

And giving everyone a chance is a post Christ thing.

 

Wait. You actually believe that genocide can be morally okay? You're not just playing devils advocate?

 

You can't read the emboldened statement and then follow it with the argument that we can kill people because they have immoral genes... Do you?

 

I can't even wrap my mind around that.

[chosendarkness]

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL? Me thinks this will turn into the "well, ok, but burn in hell forever death?"

God had people killed in the bible because they weren't the right religion. Which automatically made them evil. Wonderful thing to teach children growing up. Breeds such tolerance and acceptance. The bible is full of primitive, violent jfear and hate anyway you look at it. Trying to defend genocide just puts you one step away from a neo nazi.

[agnosticator]

What attracts you to a genocidal God?

Is it just that might makes right?

 

We are to emulate God.

Does that mean that you too would use genocide as a form of what most believers think of as good justice?

 

According to:

 

LNC Posted 23 July 2011 - 08:44 PM (#129)

People choose hell because their pride is greater than their desire to avoid hell. In other words, knowing the consequences of their sin, they still choose rebellion against God. Does God ask much of us? Yes, God casts people into hell, but the people who go to hell have chosen their fate. Think about it. Does the judge send people to jail? Yes. Do the people going to jail deserve it? Yes, if the case was conducted fairly and they were rightly judged. Did the person know that the consequences of being caught for their crime was time in jail? Yes. Did they choose to do the crime anyway? Yes. So, in a sense, they chose to go to jail by willingly and willfully doing what was deserving of jail time.

 

IOW, people who were wiped out at the biblegod's order deserved it. They chose to sin because they were prideful, so the biblegod decided they would pay for it in the here-and-now. Believers are to obey Divine Commands, so they obeyed His Mysterious Will. The biblegod is righteous by default, since He created everything. Who are we to question Him when He knows best?

 

I say this is insanity! I am not surprised when religious people do murder, saying it was God's Will. If they were totally honest with themselves, they would take the agnostic position. It's arrogant to make God into a very human genocidal maniac, masquerading as a benevolent dictator.

[Guest end3]

Wait. You actually believe that genocide can be morally okay? You're not just playing devils advocate?

Morally Ok like the death penalty for cultural deviants?

 

You can't read the emboldened statement and then follow it with the argument that we can kill people because they have immoral genes... Do you?

 

I don't have the facts regarding nature/nurture Noggy. When I was younger, I believed that all people are inherently good. Not quite as sure as I used to be then.

 

I can't even wrap my mind around that.

 

Time will tell.

[Guest end3]

Do you believe there are some in this world that deserve death DL? Me thinks this will turn into the "well, ok, but burn in hell forever death?"

God had people killed in the bible because they weren't the right religion. Which automatically made them evil. Wonderful thing to teach children growing up. Breeds such tolerance and acceptance. The bible is full of primitive, violent jfear and hate anyway you look at it. Trying to defend genocide just puts you one step away from a neo nazi.

 

How about Warren Jeffs for raping the 12 year old girls....spiritual wives. How about the Muslim terrorists that hung an 8 year old boy because his dad didn't pay them ransom.

 

Go love on them with your non neo-nazi approach CD.

[Greatest I am]

Can someone tell me what movie that clip is from?

 

http://wejew.com/media/3011/God_on_Trial_Holocaust_Shocker/

 

This movie? God on trial.

 

Regards

DL

[ScifiChick]

I am constantly amazed at how Christians refuse to answer the question posed in the OP. I've asked it of a variety of them, and they always reframe it into something they can answer, but none of them will flat out answer that they are happy to serve a genocidal God...