Falloutdude Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I don't know where to put this, so i'll just put it down and try to explain this as well as i can Essentially my feelings are all twisted up, i don't know if i believe in christianity or not because my emotions and my thoughts are all conflicting. On one hand i should know one little piece of "evidence" isn't enough to prove christianity right versus the weight of the testable evidence, on the other hand i'm just not confident in my naturalistic/non-christian explanation, however this isn't really about that incident, since i have all the rational explanations i can possibly have for it (or at least i should/seem to) What it's about is getting over your lack of confidence, that is, when your emotions and fears tell you your wrong, and your thoughts follow suit. Basically i'm talking about rational explanations that i accumulated for a "weird" and improbable christian testimony of "guessing an uncommon name". I realize i don't have confidence, and that's a big part of it, matter of fact, after talking with a group of people at "release and reclaim" i felt totally free from it (in big part due to their confidence on the matter), however somehow i came back to feeling like it still plagued me/my mind went back to it, and now i'm trying to figure out how to let go of the nagging idea that "i won't be ok". Maybe it's because i feel like the explanations aren't probable or don't make sense. Then again, how probable is "god was intervening" either? I realize i shouldn't get caught up/bogged down on these small details, like improbable testimonies, but i do. That's just how my mind works sometimes (most of the time). All i know is i keep worrying i won't really not believe and whenever i do something that's "sinful" i can't even relax because i'm thinking about whether or not i really believe it's wrong, whether i really don't believe in christianity (even though i really didn't before...) Watching South Park for example. I can't enjoy sexuality, or my friends, because everything links back to my lack of confidence regarding christianity. I'm not confident i'm free, so i don't feel like/believe I'm free I try to reassure myself, however at the same time it doesn't seem to help me feel confident about the issue or that i'll be ok and christianity isn't right (interventionist gods and what not) In the end i'm left not knowing what to think, or what i do really believe. I'm in limbo, and it's uncomfortable. This kind of uncertainty is common in OCD i know, however at the same time i need to learn how to work through it, because soon i won't have medical coverage and by extension i won't be able to get medicine or therapy....I am not covered right now either because it's getting processed, but since the only one who could really sign my paper saying i need it is the christian doctor i ditched.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Maybe I don't understand what you're saying but to me it sounds like you're still trying to "take it on faith"--unbelief this time instead of belief. I say this because you're talking about abstract stuff like "sin." What is sin anyway? I'm told it means "missing the mark." But missing the mark of what? If you think it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage, then look at the practical side of things. Bringing a child into this world before you are old enough or financially able to support a child is probably not a good idea. So if you want to be sexually active but are not in a position to accommodate a child, use contraceptives. Also be aware of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), and practice safe sex. Your doctor, and probably the internet, will have information on this. Maybe you think it's wrong to use certain words because they offend the divine ear of a deity, but you are not sure if this deity exists. Again, there's a practical side to consider. Do these words offend human ears? If so, and if you wish to be friends with these humans, you may wish not to use these words in their presence. Maybe you think sin is wearing certain kinds of clothing, playing certain kinds of music, or something else. What are the practical repercussions of whatever it is you want to do? If you think there is a Cosmic Judge who disapproves of this, then you probably are a believer. However, please keep in mind that what we are taught under threat of hell fire and brimstone is going to be branded on our psyches on a very, very deep level. As the Bible says, Teach a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. As with some other things in the Bible, there is some truth in that statement. Departing from the way of the teaching, even when we know intellectually that it is wrong, can be emotionally difficult--sometimes extremely so. So far as I can see, this is part and parcel of deconversion. Possibly the question you should be asking yourself is: Is this the way I want to go at this time? Take your time to find answers. Be gentle to yourself. Know that being an atheist is not what it's cracked up to be--it's not so you can sin; it's just living life but without belief in a deity. Not all exChristians become atheists. Some convert to another religion... I'm not sure if any of this answers your question about lack of confidence. I'm hoping it will give you confidence to know that there is a practical side you can focus on--a side that does not require faith of any kind, a side you can touch, see, hear, taste, and smell....In other words, a side of which you can see the consequences of your actions directly, immediately, in the here and now, in this life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 This kind of uncertainty is common in OCD i know, however at the same time i need to learn how to work through it, because soon i won't have medical coverage and by extension i won't be able to get medicine or therapy....I am not covered right now either because it's getting processed, but since the only one who could really sign my paper saying i need it is the christian doctor i ditched.... I hadn't seen this. Is the doctor so terrible or can you get him/her back long enough to sign the necessary papers? Life with OCD is bad enough. You need your meds/therapy, etc. If you can do it, go in there and explain that you need your doctor's signature to get you this coverage. Apologize for any offenses (even if you don't think you owe the apology, it's going to make things easier to get what you need), and explain that it was your OCD (or whatever) getting out of hand, etc. All you want is the doc's signature and then you will be out of the office and out of their lives. Can you personally tolerate them long enough for this? Will they take you back for such a meeting? Or have you got someone who can do it for you? FYI, I got kicked out of a Christian doctor's office but when I needed his signature, etc., for coverage elsewhere, he cooperated. Someone else did the actual interaction, though, because it would have been too difficult for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 All i know is i keep worrying i won't really not believe and whenever i do something that's "sinful" i can't even relax because i'm thinking about whether or not i really believe it's wrong, whether i really don't believe in christianity (even though i really didn't before...) Watching South Park for example. I can't enjoy sexuality, or my friends, because everything links back to my lack of confidence regarding christianity.[/b] It's OK for something to be wrong for you and be ok for other people. It's ok for South Park to not be a part of your life right now because watching it is uncomfortable for you. When you see South Park stuff, replace "That's bad/wrong" with "Not for me." Then redirect your attention elsewhere. Everyone has stuff that is not for them and it is very normal for them to just not be around that stuff or to limit exposure. It doesn't mean anything bad about you. I avoid a ton of stuff and I have cultivated a group of friends who respect those boundaries and love me as I am. I reciprocate by respecting the stuff they don't want to be around and loving them as they are. People who do not respect that, or with whom the differences/boundaries are too numerous, well, they are just not part of my inner circle of friends. Some are part of my wider community, and some people I don't interact with. It's OK to be you. It's OK to have boundaries. It's even ok to have boundaries that don't make a whole lot of sense. Not liking South Park is no big deal. Really. Some things might be more intrusive. So, set the small stuff--like South Park disinterest--aside for now. This will free you up to work on the more important conflicts. It's also ok to continue to engage in behaviors and retain values you learned during your time as a Christian. There is some good in all religions and cultures, ideas you can hold onto and own as a really helpful part of how you operate in the world. That doesn't make Jesus being God true. That doesn't make Hell real. It means people had some good ideas that work in your life. That's what people do! Hang in there, Phanta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Great advice, Ruby, regarding medical stuff. Keep plugging away at getting the medical care you need, Fallout. Be kind to yourself. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homospiritus Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Phanta that is encouragement for everyone! Thanks! Being ex-christian doesn't mean following a new creed or faith or whatever. It means not living in fear of the unknown anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 It's OK for something to be wrong for you and be ok for other people. It's ok for South Park to not be a part of your life right now because watching it is uncomfortable for you. When you see South Park stuff, replace "That's bad/wrong" with "Not for me." Then redirect your attention elsewhere. Everyone has stuff that is not for them and it is very normal for them to just not be around that stuff or to limit exposure. It doesn't mean anything bad about you. I avoid a ton of stuff and I have cultivated a group of friends who respect those boundaries and love me as I am. I reciprocate by respecting the stuff they don't want to be around and loving them as they are. People who do not respect that, or with whom the differences/boundaries are too numerous, well, they are just not part of my inner circle of friends. Some are part of my wider community, and some people I don't interact with. It's OK to be you. It's OK to have boundaries. It's even ok to have boundaries that don't make a whole lot of sense. Not liking South Park is no big deal. Really. Some things might be more intrusive. So, set the small stuff--like South Park disinterest--aside for now. This will free you up to work on the more important conflicts. It's also ok to continue to engage in behaviors and retain values you learned during your time as a Christian. There is some good in all religions and cultures, ideas you can hold onto and own as a really helpful part of how you operate in the world. That doesn't make Jesus being God true. That doesn't make Hell real. It means people had some good ideas that work in your life. That's what people do! Hang in there, Phanta Phanta It's not that i find the behavior bad, it's more like i start becoming afraid that it's evil and i feel bad, and then i start worrying that the fact i feel bad is a sign it is bad. I don't know....it's all really weird. I accept not judging others, i accept being kind and compassionate, i do not accept that i need to watch my language when in the company of good friends, or alone. The only thing is i keep being afraid i will feel bad and i do. I have always enjoyed being laid back about that kind of stuff, even though i don't do weed or drink, i don't necessarily care if others do, i don't really think it's "bad". I don't drink because of my medicine and because i don't trust what i'd say if i was drunk because i have to be really reserved with what i say and don't say. All i know is i know the person i was happy being and i don't want to be scared to be that person. During the time when i didn't believe, i was an agnostic/kind of an atheist. I was happier and felt like life was more beautiful and full of joy then it ever was before. Evolution made me at awe with the universe, made me feel connected to my world, and made me feel like there was beauty in the world, in it's imperfection. I have always been kind of dark, or at least, enjoyed dark plots and overtones. I don't really watch horror movies, i'm more referring to delving into the deeper and grittier aspects of humanity and life (EX: i like post apocalyptic scenarios, and where good and evil are not very easily distinguished.). Also when i felt like it was ok to have sexual feelings, i was a lot happier and felt a lot more free. I didn't feel guilty, indeed i felt proud of my libido. Rs Martin I don't know, it's hard to describe, i don't that i believe in the whole judge thing, in fact deep down i really find it....unlikely(?) However at the same time i'm scared of it. I don't know if that means i believe or if it's "phobia indoctrination". It's more like i fear things that i might feel bad for, that might be bad. Also it seems more like being uncomfortable, and i am all for doing things that make me uncomfortable/getting out of my comfort zone. For example, lately i haven't been able to hang out with friends because i'm scared i'll feel bad for doing things i normally enjoy doing with them. Like cussing when we feel like it, telling dirty jokes/innuendo. As for what direction i want to go, well, the information i had before led me to that, i never intended to become an atheist, as i believe many have said. It wasn't because i wanted to sin (then). It just made the most sense, and i find other religions intriguing only at the level that they are interesting looks into ancient mindsets. I don't really believe in what they say, and the only one i have hang ups about is christianity (of course). I don't want to care anymore, i want to be back at the point where i just didn't care if there was a god or not. I was so happy, everything felt so much better, and i was MUCH less depressed. I could explore life instead of being afraid of it. Which led me to do "sinful" things however it wasn't until later that that became a reason i didn't want to be a christian. The majority of it was the doctrines, original sin, and not being able to be myself Again i believe not believing in anything is better, in many many ways. I have no desire to live for eternity in reward or punishment. Not necessarily that i have to become a "fundamentalist atheist", but being able to be alright with not believing in anything. I don't know it's strange and i don't know what to think right now, i'm scared there's a judge, or might be, at the same time though.....i just don't know. I'm afraid i will drift towards christianity because i'm uncertain, and i'm not comfortable with that at all. The more i feel like i might go towards christianity (now or later in life) the more i become even more anxious and resistant. I don't want to believe in that bull shit and i get angry at the thought that i will. Fuck.... As far as the doctor, i would if i could even reach him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I accept not judging others, i accept being kind and compassionate, My point was you do not turn that same view onto yourself. Why? You are not special. You are just like them, and deserve the same compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 I accept not judging others, i accept being kind and compassionate, My point was you do not turn that same view onto yourself. Why? You are not special. You are just like them, and deserve the same compassion. What do you mean? It's not that i'm not being compassionate with myself, i'm just trying to do what will make me feel better.....i just want to feel ok again, i hate the idea of christianity. I want to be better....i don't want to have to worry about every little thing, or feel like i do right now. I want to feel like christianity is wrong again and not feel so scared....I hate feeling this way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggy Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I accept not judging others, i accept being kind and compassionate, My point was you do not turn that same view onto yourself. Why? You are not special. You are just like them, and deserve the same compassion. What do you mean? It's not that i'm not being compassionate with myself, i'm just trying to do what will make me feel better.....i just want to feel ok again, i hate the idea of christianity. I want to be better....i don't want to have to worry about every little thing, or feel like i do right now. I want to feel like christianity is wrong again and not feel so scared....I hate feeling this way.... Biblegod is not logical consistent. It is contradictory. It does not exist. http://godisimaginary.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToHellWithMe Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I want to feel like christianity is wrong again and not feel so scared....I hate feeling this way.... In my experience, wanting to feel something is problematic. It just doesn't work. You won't feel what you want to feel. Ultimately, you produce your own feelings. To want to feel something else than what you're feeling is an oxymoron of sorts. What the innermost you wants to feel will be what you feel, regardless of what you "want" to feel with your ego. Your ego, you, exists to serve the whole of you. If what you want is not in harmony with the whole of you, it will not be within your powers to get, even if getting it is up to you only. If one part of you wants to feel scared, scared you will be. You better just accept it. Denying a negative emotion can have some partial effect but that feeling will slip through your conscious guard and will manifest itself in a way you may not recognize as an effect of that emotion. I don't know at all how this all relates to indulgence. When I force myself to act with ego-willpower, I will eventually get fed up of trying and what negative feeling I've tried to put up with will run wild in me. After such failed attempts I give in to my inner self and only do whatever I feel like doing, but that way won't work for long either: I'll get sick of indulging, too. Thus, I suppose egoistic willpower has to be used after all. But when? Beats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethallunacy Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 for me, the fear of uncertainty didn't subside until I began my foray into Anthropology and Philosophy. Learn about the origins of Christianity, and the source of some noteworthy Christian dogmas (most of which can be shown to have been made up less than 300 years ago. I.E the "personal relationship" spiel.) Facts are stubborn things, and it's hard to argue against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 for me, the fear of uncertainty didn't subside until I began my foray into Anthropology and Philosophy. Learn about the origins of Christianity, and the source of some noteworthy Christian dogmas (most of which can be shown to have been made up less than 300 years ago. I.E the "personal relationship" spiel.) Facts are stubborn things, and it's hard to argue against them. Well that's the thing....i know all that crap...well other than the personal relationship part, although i assumed based on the bible and the church's history that was probably a fairly modern innovation church and state separated. At least in the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts