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Who Here Thinks Nwo Conspiracy Theories Are Bull?


Rockalocka
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This NWO BS has been around for 30 odd years now. All of it is conspiracy madness and should be taken with a huge dose of tinfoil hats.

 

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It is possible, but I can't say I actively believe in it.

 

There was a time when I was an avid 9/11 truther and a few other things. While I am no longer a truther, I think there are still questions. To me, I find sources that simply raise questions (without taking the leap to a specific conspiracy theory) a bit more credible.

 

I don't think anyone should ever be insulted for asking genuine questions, but I do think it is unreasonable to leap to any number of specific conspiracy theories.

 

But hey, it can be fun for a while :) .

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Read Michael Shermer's book The Believing Brain. It's about why we have the religious/political/etc. beliefs we do and he talks a bit about how conspiracy theories form. He said when someone asked him if he believed 9/11 was a conspiracy he responded with "you mean a conspiracy by Muslim extremists to fly planes into the World Trade Center?" His point was that conspiracies do happen all the time, but they're way simpler than people think. All that's required is two or more people agreeing to work together on committing a crime.

 

Shermer gives a great example -- the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, which started a quick chain of events that ignited WW1. Several failed attempts were made at his life that day by the Black Hand assassin group until the successful killer was just sitting at a cafe having given up when he spotted Ferdinand's car after the driver took a wrong turn. The driver put his foot on the brake and tried to back up, causing the gears to lock and the engine to stall. The assassin was able to get at close enough range to shoot and kill Ferdinand on a stroke of dumb luck. That's how conspiracies really happen -- they're messy and all sorts of things don't happen as planned. They aren't intricate well-oiled machines like a secret oligarchy of unknown people running the world in a small black room since the time of ancient Egypt. There's way too many things that would have to work together.

 

And I believed in that kind of stuff as a Christian as well. I have a natural tendency to over analyze things, but I've learned to filter it as I've grown older. Some people don't have those filters at all and either end up doing great creative things with the patterns they recognize or developing serious problems.

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I too believed in this stuff when I was a xian. I guess since you already have faith, it's not a big leap to believe in another big story that needs faith.

 

Seeing (insert secret organization here) isn't much different than how my fundie teachers and pastors saw Satan in many things, and how Islamists see Zionist conspiracies everywhere.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as crazy, I'd like to examine which strand first. Some are just crazy and paranoid, others are possible. In my opinion, none have provided me enough evidence for me to be convinced. I'm openmindedly skeptical.

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Conspiracy theories annoy me and I don't believe in them at all, unless you count terrorist cells and assassinations. But as flockoff said, they are messy rather than well oiled machines. So I wouldn't worry about them unless you are on the receiving end of of such an attack. Which rarely happens.

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i belive they can be real but never as extensive as people claim, people have a tendencey to over exagerate certian things as this in order to make it more real and dangorus.

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I have a lot of questions about a lot of things and I don't think things are always what they appear to be.silverpenny013Hmmm.gifThat said, I have a hard time settling in to certain beliefs like conspiracy theories. The truth is, we cannot know the answers to many questions. But we can ask them. I think its foolish not to. I like to think past the surface, contemplate what is not always obvious, be ready for anything, but live my life as if what I am told is true for the most part.

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I think ALL conspiracy theories are bull. They all offer the least probable scenario for the given situation.

 

Many conspiracy theories do meet this definition, but the term is used to loosely to have any real meaning. Clearly there are self-interested groups that have agendas. This too is a conspiracy and it's a well-documented fact that the government is influenced by a relatively small number of people as is the media.

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I think ALL conspiracy theories are bull. They all offer the least probable scenario for the given situation.

 

Many conspiracy theories do meet this definition, but the term is used to loosely to have any real meaning. Clearly there are self-interested groups that have agendas. This too is a conspiracy and it's a well-documented fact that the government is influenced by a relatively small number of people as is the media.

 

QFT

 

I once read a neat little distinction between conspiracies (which happen every day) and Conspiracies (yes capital C, those like NWO, 911, Apollo moon hoax etc.). The former happen every day, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, but there's a clear difference in scale and perfection beween c and C.

 

Take the "NASA never went to the moon!" crap: Just how many tens of thousands of people would necessarily have to know about "what really went on"? All those people employed by NASA for the Apollo program, all those contractors, et cetera, ad nauseam... and (as one skeptical site put it very nicely) not one patriotic American with a love of truth and a willingness to tell it among them?

 

For an example of the different kind, take the neofeudal neoliberal agenda to rob all from the poor and give it all to the rich. If you only look at scope it's enormous, involving (and wrecking in the process) entire governments, and more than two or three - just look at Greece, Spain, Italy... But it's clear to see who's behind it (banksters, megacorporation bosses, billionaires etc.), it's not at all taking place in secrecy (there's more than enough evidence for lobbyism for example, clearly visible to those who keep their eyes open) and the reason why it's working so far is "just" the massive propaganda, easily affordable to banksters and other such bastards, that constantly parrots a dozen variants of "why we are RIGHT!" so thoroughly that - unless you're looking behind the scenes very closely - it's easy to overlook all evidence to the contrary. That is pretty much the most "C-like" conspiracy in the real world that comes to my mind. Quite a difference there to the "goo' ol' NWO & friends" with their assumed ultra-secrecy, almost universe-wide power and total perfection in everything, no? ;)

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I think ALL conspiracy theories are bull. They all offer the least probable scenario for the given situation.

 

Many conspiracy theories do meet this definition, but the term is used to loosely to have any real meaning. Clearly there are self-interested groups that have agendas. This too is a conspiracy and it's a well-documented fact that the government is influenced by a relatively small number of people as is the media.

Of course that's true. I was assuming a definition based on the NWO example. People conspire everyday to achieve their common goals, but I thought we were talking about wild, unsubstantiated theories such as the moon landing, 911, shape shifters, etc.

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Much like others in this thread, I used to believe in conspiracy theories when I was a Christian, and for awhile longer after I wasn't - while still learning to think critically.

 

Sometimes I still run into a compelling conspiracy theory like the one Thurisaz proposed, but I realized somewhere along the way that even if I had evidence of some major cover up, I am in no position to do a damn thing about it. I mean, the banks have been caught red handed time and time again breaking laws, and nothing stops them, but take something even more far fetched. Let's say something like the X-Files was true. What would knowing do for me? Could I go on a media campaign? How would the world change if we revealed all of these theories? I don't think it would. I found peace in that realization. GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

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Also, even if some kind of insane NWO was made, it would most likely epic fail. And does a conspiracy behind 9/11 really matter? At least to me it doesn't. Yeah, it was a horrible sad event. Terrorists did it. That's all I really need to know. I think people just try an make their lives more interesting or something by looking at a dollar bill with some symbol that might mean something and it hasn't been discovered since the dollar bills were released.

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This is pretty funny to me. When I was about 15, when the internet was just coming out, I became obsessed with reading about all this stuff and I was pretty convinced ugh.gif

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Also, even if some kind of insane NWO was made, it would most likely epic fail. And does a conspiracy behind 9/11 really matter? At least to me it doesn't. Yeah, it was a horrible sad event. Terrorists did it. That's all I really need to know. I think people just try an make their lives more interesting or something by looking at a dollar bill with some symbol that might mean something and it hasn't been discovered since the dollar bills were released.

 

Even if someone contends that the U.S. government brought down the towers, you can still claim you're right by saying that terrorists brought them down because the government meant to inspire terror in it's citizens, which a compelling arguement can be made that regardless of a conspiracy that U.S. government officals are made up of terrorists, especially if they are willing to torture its own citizens.

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I think ALL conspiracy theories are bull. They all offer the least probable scenario for the given situation.

 

Many conspiracy theories do meet this definition, but the term is used to loosely to have any real meaning. Clearly there are self-interested groups that have agendas. This too is a conspiracy and it's a well-documented fact that the government is influenced by a relatively small number of people as is the media.

Of course that's true. I was assuming a definition based on the NWO example. People conspire everyday to achieve their common goals, but I thought we were talking about wild, unsubstantiated theories such as the moon landing, 911, shape shifters, etc.

 

I think it's important to point out the distinction though, because many with a political agenda will attempt to lump them all together in an effort to marginalize their political opponents.

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Guest wester

Denial of conspiracies posits that rich folk don't operate their lives in their own self-interest. They do. If you think otherwise you're one that PT Barnum said was born every minute.

 

If you live in Amerika, your life is the owned property of the cartel of banks that run the Federal Reserve. Your government and your whole society works for them. It is not a secret and it's a conspiracy which is fully out in the open where everyone can deny it and pretend we all live in wonderland. Slavery didn't go anywhere, my friend, it just changed into a set of clothes that smells better.

 

"You work and I'll eat." - Abraham Lincoln's definition of 'slavery'.

 

Have a nice day :-)

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Conspiracy theories seem like kind of a waste of time to me, considering that most i've ever heard of seem to be supported by nothing but wild, outrageous claims, backed with little or no testable/verifiable evidence. And more often than not the people who perpetuate them tend to be paranoid and delusional, often using certain key words and phrases such as "they", "them", "secret", "out to get us", etc.

 

Can't be bothered with it....

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