Lsd, Psilocybin, Mdma, Cannabis For Treating Religious Trauma Syndrome?

[Tealeaf]

Note: This is for discussion and exploratory purposes. I am not suggesting anyone do anything. Please read and consider things before commenting to make sure you are informed of the nature of this topic. Please do some of your own research; don't take my word on anything. Please keep an open mind.

 

Now then: This is the first time I've thrown this out there in a public venue. I will give a little background on me first. I've never been religious. I am here because of the trials I've been through at the hands of religious people/mindsets. I'm not an angry or sad person. But through my experience I've come to see that religion as it functions (the higher the dose, the worse) in modern society is a disease of the mind. In this day and age, the only "successful" bout with religion seems to be one that never has to confront the vastness of our world now. ie. They remain happily in the matrix, never being exposed to the nature of their view. This is how religion has basically functioned throughout human history. I mean, it'd be kind of hard to get your tribe to slaughter the one across the way if your people were all aware of the (fictitious) origin of their beliefs on top of the fact that said tribe to be slughtered has it's very own set of beliefs, and they "know" they are right too.

 

Nowadays people are becoming more aware. Globalization and the internet are the realities now. It's a lot harder to stay in Blue Pill land these days because of them. Religion still persists in creating conflict of course. The moderate religionist has a hard case to sell that won't hang on much either because the basis of it is to basically make shit up. ie. "I believe in love thy neighbour, but not killing homosexuals, Sunday workers, etc." People may also cite community and spiritual needs. Most of us here are aware that community or "spirituality" are in no way dependant on religion. It's just the way it's been for a long, long time for many it seems.

 

Anyway, back to me never being religious. As such, I have never had to live with the guilt, fear, entrapment, dissaray, etc. etc. that many of you who have escaped the cult/religion have. Yes I have experienced those things at times, but in a more 'genuine' way. No one to blame but me. Nothing driving me but me. That sort of thing.... Never having been indoctrinated, I haven't actually had to live through really believing that there is a god, and that that god is real, and watches me, judges me, and will kick the shit out of me if I fuck up; nor was anyone looking out for me to get the next best parking spot. I'm assuming worst of all would be the doctrine of hell! As a child, really truly believing that there is a hell....this is sick twisted child abuse! I can recall my childhood mindset and if I actually had that doctrine running in my mind I would be horrified!

 

Many, many people have had/still do have these kinds of sick, perverse, manipulative doctrines running in their minds. This kind of abuse leaves it's scars, and they are HUGE by all accounts it seems. Reading this site is a testament to that. Dealing with the people I have does it for me as well. Taking the Red Pill may free the mind, but these wounds are still there and they really do define large parts of people. Those who are hurt by religion but are still in it don't even see the connection, but the wounds are still there. Much like nicotine addiction they keep going back to what's killing them; perhaps because it's all they know, or think it's OK to know.

 

Regardless of everyone's experience, this topic is directed at people like those on this site who have likely already taken their own Red Pill, but are still suffering from the wounds religion has caused.

 

The wounds appear to be a manifestation of PTSD and addiction tendancies. The mind on religion has become dependant on the drugs effects; the parameters and familiarity, the crutch of faith, the social routine, prescribed pupose, etc. This could be any religious mind that discovers the truth nevermind those who have been through all other sorts of abuse as well. Losing these things seems to cause withdrawl. A shift in entire perspective and the discovery of being decieved to such a degree must indeed be traumatic. It appears to leave people with a lot of unwanted baggage.

 

Remember that I have not - and unless we are actually in The Matrix - will not get to experience the Red Pill in this nature. I'm open to all possibilies (provided some evidence) but I cannot by virtue of my experience, go through losing my religion. I don't think losing anything (besides a limb, organ, personal ability, etc.) can really rival that experience either.

 

I've been keen on the damage religion causes for many years. I've also been interested in psychology and philosophy for quite some time (many, many years). As such, I've decided to study them in university for a while. I also like to experience what I learn about. A part of this 'extra-curricular' experience has been some experimentation with mind-altering substances; of most interest being the psychedelics. I want to know the extent of existential cognitive shifts and this is one method to provoke them. Apparently there's even a word for this: psychonautics. The most bizarre thing may be that as I exlored these experiences, I also began to discover through my readings in existentialism that many others have used these methods for perspective and inspiration for their writing. Woah!

 

This is where you do some research on drugs like LSD and psilocybin if you're still in the "OMG! Drugs! Bad! No!" I don't want to go into detail. But just an overview: the drugs in question here are not physically dangerous. There are some HUGE misconceptions about drugs out there. The biggest probably being that ethanol and tobacco/nicotine are somehow not drugs, or are somehow safer. By far the most deadly drug in the world is tobacco and the by-products of combustion. As well, most of the problems caused by illicit drugs of most types is that their illegality causes a huge criminal underworld.

 

The thing with psychedelics is that they act as a "chemical key" on various aspects of the brain/mind. I won't get into specifics; again, research. The nature of the experience is so profound with drugs like LSD especially that it can actually allow one to completely alter their outlook and personality for benefit, even after just one experience; one is all someone might want/need. Other experiences such as that of MDMA, can show one a realm of openness not otherwise accessible. These experiences can be used for all sorts of personal healing and introspection, especially for therapy.

 

www.maps.org

 

This is not the only organization. Take a look at some of the applications of psychedelic therapy. Also note that it seems to continue meeting ongoing success. It's not for everyone; not much is. But it does show quite some promise for those suitable. RTS will be up for entry in the DSM-V, this should also be an option on the table for treatment. I am of course suggesting this in the realm of professional medical therapy. Except for cannbis.... Tobacco is legal, but not far less harmful marijuana? Screw that. Switch the two I say Ethanol is also far more toxic and harmful all around than cannabis.

 

Note that this is not replacing one drug (religion) with another either. The point of many psychedelic therapies is to end and the experiences carry on into life without any drugs.

 

Anyway this is not a plug for anything. I've gone on and on to shed some light on where I'm coming from here. What do you all think? Would these applications carry over to Religious Trauma Syndrome? Anyone already dabbled in this area for this purpose before?

[Noggy]

SWIM took some acid a little bit after his deconversion. It was very existentialistic. SWIM wasn't fully grounded yet and got very depressed during the trip. The closest thing SWIM has ever had to a bad trip. After getting back on his feet again, he finds them enjoyable, and revels in the thoughts that it gives him.

[hereticzero]

SWIM took some acid a little bit after his deconversion. It was very existentialistic. SWIM wasn't fully grounded yet and got very depressed during the trip. The closest thing SWIM has ever had to a bad trip. After getting back on his feet again, he finds them enjoyable, and revels in the thoughts that it gives him.

Are you SWIM?

[Noggy]

SWIM took some acid a little bit after his deconversion. It was very existentialistic. SWIM wasn't fully grounded yet and got very depressed during the trip. The closest thing SWIM has ever had to a bad trip. After getting back on his feet again, he finds them enjoyable, and revels in the thoughts that it gives him.

Are you SWIM?

 

look at definition #3

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swim

[hereticzero]

We have a member with the ID SWIM. That's why I was asking.

[Noggy]

We have a member with the ID SWIM. That's why I was asking.

 

Oh... lol. hahaha. Wonder what that guy had in mind.

[DesertBob]

What do you all think? Would these applications carry over to Religious Trauma Syndrome? Anyone already dabbled in this area for this purpose before?

I think such therapies find no real above-ground support in society for any purpose, so by definition they aren't a practical suggestion for treating anything. You inherently have to break the law, and then increase your risks in doing so because it just about has to be in collusion with someone else (your therapist or quasi-therapist). If you already have problems like anxiety and PTSD, it doesn't seem like doing things that are apt to cause more problems is a way to go.

 

Add to that the potential for feeding or triggering addictive tendencies, and you have a non-starter in my book. That said, it's my opinion that people should be free to experiment with whatever they want to ... but it's just not going to happen in US society anytime in the foreseeable future. We meddle too much in people's personal affairs here. It's what we do. One should go to places like Denmark for stuff like this, you can probably explore it in a "coffee shop" or some other nudge-wink venue at your leisure.

[Noggy]

What do you all think? Would these applications carry over to Religious Trauma Syndrome? Anyone already dabbled in this area for this purpose before?

I think such therapies find no real above-ground support in society for any purpose, so by definition they aren't a practical suggestion for treating anything. You inherently have to break the law, and then increase your risks in doing so because it just about has to be in collusion with someone else (your therapist or quasi-therapist). If you already have problems like anxiety and PTSD, it doesn't seem like doing things that are apt to cause more problems is a way to go.

 

Add to that the potential for feeding or triggering addictive tendencies, and you have a non-starter in my book. That said, it's my opinion that people should be free to experiment with whatever they want to ... but it's just not going to happen in US society anytime in the foreseeable future. We meddle too much in people's personal affairs here. It's what we do. One should go to places like Denmark for stuff like this, you can probably explore it in a "coffee shop" or some other nudge-wink venue at your leisure.

 

LSD, Psilocybin, and MDMA have all been shown to have very good therapeutic use in clinical studies all across Europe. And except for MDMA (which is still being debated) none of those substances are addicted. Cannabis can be habit forming, but you will never experience a withdrawal symptom except for wishing you were smoking weed.

 

http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/

[pitchu]

Unfortunately, Big Pharma would never allow their staggering profits to be reduced by free access to inexpensive (and in most cases, far less harmful) treatments for "psychic disturbances."

[Ro-bear]

SWIM uses cannabis for almost everything. Doesn't help reading speed or panic attacks. Good for everything else.

[Tealeaf]

SWIM took some acid a little bit after his deconversion. It was very existentialistic. SWIM wasn't fully grounded yet and got very depressed during the trip. The closest thing SWIM has ever had to a bad trip. After getting back on his feet again, he finds them enjoyable, and revels in the thoughts that it gives him.

 

SWIM chose one adventure to take place in an unfavourable emotional set and setting specifically for the experience of 'no ground' and existential emptiness witnesses in others struggling with this. SWIM took the resulting thought-space all on his own terms to integrate it into his own personality for better understanding of others in SWIMself. All other journeys have led to better understanding with friends, greater perspective and choice in thought processes, and somehow even greater existential peace....which SWIM has never had a quarrel with anyway.

 

What do you all think? Would these applications carry over to Religious Trauma Syndrome? Anyone already dabbled in this area for this purpose before?

I think such therapies find no real above-ground support in society for any purpose, so by definition they aren't a practical suggestion for treating anything. You inherently have to break the law, and then increase your risks in doing so because it just about has to be in collusion with someone else (your therapist or quasi-therapist). If you already have problems like anxiety and PTSD, it doesn't seem like doing things that are apt to cause more problems is a way to go.

 

Add to that the potential for feeding or triggering addictive tendencies, and you have a non-starter in my book. That said, it's my opinion that people should be free to experiment with whatever they want to ... but it's just not going to happen in US society anytime in the foreseeable future. We meddle too much in people's personal affairs here. It's what we do. One should go to places like Denmark for stuff like this, you can probably explore it in a "coffee shop" or some other nudge-wink venue at your leisure.

 

The site I linked you to is above ground. As are other foundations that research and sponsor similar studies, theraputic methods, and events.

 

"The law" doesn't mean it's right. Unfortunatley, right now you do have to break the law (and also surrender quality control for the most part) to experience these things abroad. Why should the law tell you what you can put in your own body; nevermind that most of the substances in question here are physically harmless, and really no more dangerous than aspirin. On top of it, tobacco is FAR more dangerous (as well as mind/mood/behaviour altering) yet it's legal everywhere..and we all have to make exceptions to some degree for that drug addiction which aren't favourable; the drug isn't even favourable to the users own body. There is no 'safe' way to (ab)use tobacco; where as there are safe methods to use substances that aren't physically destructive.

 

Hallucinogens are not addictive. Part of that is that the experience is so profound you wouldn't WANT to be addicted. They also build tolerance fast, actually preventing repeated use in rapid succession. Unless you are one of those looking to abuse something, but even then you'd just be riding on placebo. And feeling really really shitty.

 

Contrary to popular culture drug-war BS, none of these drugs results in someone being able to "tamper" with your mind. You are aware of what's going on. You aren't going to go crazy. The drug wears off as well. You can leave any bad behind (and take solice in knowing it was all just a drug anyway) and harness any good for unlimited personal use.

 

LSD was also used specifically to treat alcohol addiction with much success. It may be useful for others. It's the shift in cognitive activity in contrast with what it normally is, intensification of senses, openness, etc. that have the user confron ttheir problems in their own way I suspect. I know I actually began to question my ethanol use on an existential level as a result of one journey and have learned to frame it more realistically as a result. And I didn't even learn about that supposed effect until afterwards; wierd. Just sayin.

 

Don't buy into the drug-war bullshit. Man. Ha!

 

 

LSD, Psilocybin, and MDMA have all been shown to have very good therapeutic use in clinical studies all across Europe. And except for MDMA (which is still being debated) none of those substances are addicted. Cannabis can be habit forming, but you will never experience a withdrawal symptom except for wishing you were smoking weed.

 

http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/

 

 

Yes, MDMA is still under investigation. I can see why as it is definatly the most "physical" being an entactogen. Side effects are more prominent (but not everlasting). At this point it seems to be safe a limited number of times. Which....is all most people ever really seem to use it for. I don't think MDMA will be a problem with addiction. Realistically the effects wear down significantly if repeated use occurs, to the point where you've really got to be looking at riding on placebo effect and other residual effects of a foreign substance being present; and alsmost certainly lack of sleep at that extent. It's not like you can just go pop an M-cap on lunchbreak or something haha!

 

Unfortunately, Big Pharma would never allow their staggering profits to be reduced by free access to inexpensive (and in most cases, far less harmful) treatments for "psychic disturbances."

 

Exactly my thoughts. Hence likely why they've been illegal worldwide for so long. Kinda hard to make money on a drug that only needs to be taken at leisure or for a short period of time and gives people their own personal tools to deal with their problems and be happy you know....on their own. Nothing like nicotine, prescription drug regimes, or say, religion.

 

------

 

How fitting an example has just shown up again of the various degrees of existential damage religion causes.

 

http://new.exchristian.net/2011/08/i-need-help-support-anyone-to-tell-me.html

[pitchu]

About tobacco, Tealeaf: I grow, cure, age, shred and roll my own. (I even have some of the Yumbo strain, which is a rare Amazonian trance tobacco.) There is a direct connection between me and these plants that come out of the earth on my own land. I have an organic crop -- no chemicals of any kind -- the aphids are removed from the giant leaves with a soft brush.

 

Tobacco plants have the unique property of being able to cleanse impurities from the soil, completely releasing them through the breathing of their leaves. They can do this even with soil containing radioactive contaminants.

 

I've yet to see any studies which compare health effects on humans of this natural tobacco with the commercial tobacco which may contain up to 600 "trade secret" additives. Additionally, there's research to suggest that nicotine may prohibit the development of Alzheimers and Parkinson's Disease.

 

So this could be another instance of needing to question the hype.

[lostman42]

Well smoking weed sure does make me happy, I've only done Psilocybin mushrooms once.

[Tealeaf]

About tobacco, Tealeaf: I grow, cure, age, shred and roll my own. (I even have some of the Yumbo strain, which is a rare Amazonian trance tobacco.) There is a direct connection between me and these plants that come out of the earth on my own land. I have an organic crop -- no chemicals of any kind -- the aphids are removed from the giant leaves with a soft brush.

 

Tobacco plants have the unique property of being able to cleanse impurities from the soil, completely releasing them through the breathing of their leaves. They can do this even with soil containing radioactive contaminants.

 

I've yet to see any studies which compare health effects on humans of this natural tobacco with the commercial tobacco which may contain up to 600 "trade secret" additives. Additionally, there's research to suggest that nicotine may prohibit the development of Alzheimers and Parkinson's Disease.

 

So this could be another instance of needing to question the hype.

 

Didn't mean to hate on you, ha. More power to the use of the LIVE plant for whatever you say.

 

The chemicals come from the combustion of the plant matter though. And it seems that combustion of tobacco releases a varying degree of compounds not found in cannabis smoke that cause all the health problems (although yes, smoke form both share many of the same compounds inevitably).

 

Yes, I have looked at some of that research as well. Regardless of that, the numerous physically negative effects of nitcotine, as well as it's effects on the behaviour of smokers are far more prevelant. I recall watching this video of a fetus riggling around at the exposure to a small amount of nicotine looking much similar to the one exposed to alcohol in one of my psych courses. It's not a drug that's friendly to the body. It's also pretty much the most lethal of popularly consumed drugs: ~50 mg being a fatal dose, though you would really have to try to smoke that.

 

On the topic of drugs though, nicotine is largely useless and serves to do nothing but cause trouble. Where as drugs like those mentioned here are not toxic, and their purpose is centred around the experience, not the compulsive need to have the drug to feel normal.

[Foxy Methoxy]

I highly recommend ethenogenic useage of foxy methoxy and/or iprocin as a part of religious trauma relief and recovery.

[pitchu]

 

Didn't mean to hate on you, ha. More power to the use of the LIVE plant for whatever you say.

 

The chemicals come from the combustion of the plant matter though. And it seems that combustion of tobacco releases a varying degree of compounds not found in cannabis smoke that cause all the health problems (although yes, smoke form both share many of the same compounds inevitably).

 

Yes, I have looked at some of that research as well. Regardless of that, the numerous physically negative effects of nitcotine, as well as it's effects on the behaviour of smokers are far more prevelant. I recall watching this video of a fetus riggling around at the exposure to a small amount of nicotine looking much similar to the one exposed to alcohol in one of my psych courses. It's not a drug that's friendly to the body. It's also pretty much the most lethal of popularly consumed drugs: ~50 mg being a fatal dose, though you would really have to try to smoke that.

 

On the topic of drugs though, nicotine is largely useless and serves to do nothing but cause trouble. Where as drugs like those mentioned here are not toxic, and their purpose is centred around the experience, not the compulsive need to have the drug to feel normal.

 

You make a few assumptions, Tealeaf, but then, so do most folks who march under the anti-smoking banner.

[florduh]

To simplify: My favorite drug GOOD; your favorite drug BAD. Thus has it always been, even among the Hippies back in the day.

 

Given this state of affairs, I think we hear both outlandish defenses and unreasonable condemnations regarding all drugs, from caffeine to heroin and everything in between. Quite obviously, humans will use drugs to some degree, so choose your poison and enjoy it!

[Vigile]

To simplify: My favorite drug GOOD; your favorite drug BAD. Thus has it always been, even among the Hippies back in the day.

 

Given this state of affairs, I think we hear both outlandish defenses and unreasonable condemnations regarding all drugs, from caffeine to heroin and everything in between. Quite obviously, humans will use drugs to some degree, so choose your poison and enjoy it!

 

All the drugs should fight and god can sort it out. Meanwhile, average lifespans keep on climbing, so we must not be too fucked up on pharma.

[Tealeaf]

You make a few assumptions, Tealeaf, but then, so do most folks who march under the anti-smoking banner.

 

Even if smoking were somehow not the glaring health issue it is, what real purpose do you see it serving? On the whole no human needs to consume any of these mind altering substances; many of them seem to create a artificial need though. But again as humans we are aware of their affects - physically and mentally - and it's our nature to try and utilize them as well as fall to some of their temptation. I just don't see why smoking or nicotine use (other than those few possible benefits for the mentally ill) is really necessary. And when you start using the drug everyday, multiple times a day.... What is that really saying about it's affect?

 

I am absolutley a 'don't-knock-it-till-you-try-it' type as well. I've smoked over - but somewhere in the area of - 100 cigarettes in my life. Of all the 'crazy' things of all sorts I do and try, that felt the most harmful relative to gained experience (and the most taxing on me in terms of drugs). I've tried them in all the situations people seem to like: breaks at work, with caffeine, while driving, while drunk, while on a variety of other drugs (including those of the OP), when I felt unhappy, when I felt joyous, when I felt anxious, on nature exlorations, etc. etc., as well as a few one after another to get a look at the chain smoking mentality. I can see exactly how people get addicted to them. But the mechanism seems similar to that of religion. It's a Blue Pill experience. And for what? That silly little rocket off the diving board for a minute and then a few minutes of plateu.... All to rapidly come to the conclusion that if i want that experience again.... I'd have to smoke another cigarette. To each their own. Except not really....because genetics and environment before the subject knows any better are the biggest contributors to adoption of smoking habits. It all looks too much like religious indoctrination to me!

----

 

Drugs have in common one thing really: They are substances in which the conscious experience recognizes as a 'switch' for affect. After that, they all have their own realities; physical and psychological. The thing with psychedelic exerience is that you take it with you without needing any drug in your system. Many hallucinogens are also physically harmless, and this is the kind of harm that's going to affect all. I guess what i'm really getting at is: What's the harm if it doesn't physically destroy your person? It's also worth noting that psychological disturbances incured by drugs like say, LSD, are no more prevelant than those of the general population.

 

Anyway.... I guess this is all a little too optimisitic at the moment what with the Big Pharma opposition. The applications are there, but there's no way to turn regular profits. Just another force to enslave the common mind I guess.

[par4dcourse]

I'm going to start an in-depth study of those substances immediately. Get back to me in a few months if I can still talk.

[Foxy Methoxy]

I highly recommend the 5-MeO-DiPT.

[Lethallunacy]

Cannabis is my favorite vegetable. I will say that some of the insights I've had on Cannabis, and other drugs have been invaluable to my deconversion process. I recommend it.

[Noggy]

Cannabis is my favorite vegetable. I will say that some of the insights I've had on Cannabis, and other drugs have been invaluable to my deconversion process. I recommend it.

 

I didn't know Cannabis counted as a vegetable. I'm the healthiest man alive.

[Tealeaf]

Someone mentioned dimethyltryptamine.... Holy sweet fuck! That is truly an experience that'll leave you with your ass kicked in the most beautiful slew of jaw-dropping WTF you'll ever spring up and run around like a zombie to yet

 

For those still a bit hesitant though.... Remember that drugs (substances) are the smoking hole in all the baseless bullshit people want to claim about there being "something more" to human experience and consciousness. They are better, and safer than religion in that they provide an obvious and agreeable objective means of altering consciousness. It kind of shows without a doubt.... That all this here, there, then, and now....is just the physical world. And it can indeed be monitored, measured, and tested

 

Also, drugs wear off. And if something bad happens in mental experience.......well, we know why then, eh?

[Noggy]

Someone mentioned dimethyltryptamine.... Holy sweet fuck! That is truly an experience that'll leave you with your ass kicked in the most beautiful slew of jaw-dropping WTF you'll ever spring up and run around like a zombie to yet

 

For those still a bit hesitant though.... Remember that drugs (substances) are the smoking hole in all the baseless bullshit people want to claim about there being "something more" to human experience and consciousness. They are better, and safer than religion in that they provide an obvious and agreeable objective means of altering consciousness. It kind of shows without a doubt.... That all this here, there, then, and now....is just the physical world. And it can indeed be monitored, measured, and tested

 

Also, drugs wear off. And if something bad happens in mental experience.......well, we know why then, eh?

 

if SWIM is going to do DPH he also does DXM at the same time. God Combo.