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Goodbye Jesus

Why Are You Christians So Insincere With Your Hell Beliefs?


Not_Scarevangelist

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Deep down, they probably do not believe it OR the I'm alright jack syndrome

 

Of course they don't believe it because it's too ridiculous. You can say you believe in something ridiculous, you can even believe that you believe it on the outside, by the unconscious doesn't because it doesn't make any sense. They also don't believe that God was born on the earth. It's a ridiculous thing to believe, so you have to 'suspend your disbelief'. It's like going to a movie, you entertain the idea of this being real, but you know that in reality it's all just make-believe.

 

Christians might have believed these things back in a time where people thought of gods coming to earth and other superstition as very real, but today is much different. One of the big reasons I left Christianity was this lying to yourself, trying hard to believe in something that there's no point of reference for.

 

Ask a Christian if they believe in leprachauns or fairies. No that's ridiculous. What about Zeus, or maybe Ra? No, it's just myths. Oh but Jesus really was god on earth and rose from the dead. Huh???? The reason they don't immediately say the Jesus myth is ridiculous to take literal is because everyone around them tells them it's real, it's accepted by there peers. But no, the hidden person, the real you doesn't believe it. Unfortunately they aren't able to be honest enough to trust that inner person.

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The greatest good for the greatest number of people...

I would agree if this was altered to... the greatest good for the greatest number of deserving people.

 

I value justice over mercy.

 

Alright, so we will put you in the non deserving list.

 

As for the question, I think there is an element of sadistic glee that the "truly saved" will watch as "the lost" are being burned and tortured for all eternity.

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This is the question I also posted on Yahoo:

 

I've noticed an interesting trend among the Christian people. According to 99% of the Evangelical Christians hell is a very real place of torment and everlasting pain awaits everyone who doesn't accept Jesus.

 

At the same time Christians aren't doing everything to protect people around them from hell... This is quite disturbing. If they sincerely believe in Hell, they should make EVERYTHING possible every single person they know be aware that Hell exists and accept Jesus as their Savior.

 

Yet, most Christians seem indifferent towards the fact that the world around them is dying, that every single minute many people on Earth die and many of them die without being Christians... Most Christians go to the cafes, meet with their friends, laugh and do nothing so more people can be saved.

 

Please, don't encourage them. Ugh.

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I don't know if any thugs are controlling the begging zones in a city like Seattle, but I know for a fact they are in places like St Petersburg Russia and tourist areas in places like Thailand. It's a cruel world.

 

And then there are places where children are purposely maimed and deformed to garner more sympathy/money. Sick-o.

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I don't know if any thugs are controlling the begging zones in a city like Seattle, but I know for a fact they are in places like St Petersburg Russia and tourist areas in places like Thailand. It's a cruel world.

 

And then there are places where children are purposely maimed and deformed to garner more sympathy/money. Sick-o.

 

I've been told by a couple of long time expats here that some Thais have been known to take a hammer to their infants arms and legs. We watched an investigative journalism show in Russia that said people were getting limbs amputated by amateur doctors and they keep the babies on glue so they won't cry while beggars hold them. It's all very fucked up and represents a very sick, small segment in both these societies. There seems to be a connection between poverty and an utter moral breakdown. Maybe we need to amend "power corrupts" to "power and poverty corrupts"

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Justice is reaping what you sow. If you sow potatoes you reap potatoes.

 

Maybe in a black and white world that's what happens, but in real world earth it could be after a long season of back breaking work of sowing potatoes... You have a bad frost, a swarm of insects, or a massive flood, and you end up with no potatoes. Is the farmer to blame in your view? Is Justice served to the farmer and the family? :shrug:

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Justice is reaping what you sow. If you sow potatoes you reap potatoes.

 

Maybe in a black and white world that's what happens, but in real world earth it could be after a long season of back breaking work of sowing potatoes... You have a bad frost, a swarm of insects, or a massive flood, and you end up with no potatoes. Is the farmer to blame in your view? Is Justice served to the farmer and the family? :shrug:

 

Or you could work your ass off sowing potatoes and some asshole lobbyist convinces the government to let the corporation he's on the payroll for to annex your land and give you cents on the dollar for your potatoes.

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I don't know if any thugs are controlling the begging zones in a city like Seattle, but I know for a fact they are in places like St Petersburg Russia and tourist areas in places like Thailand. It's a cruel world.

 

And then there are places where children are purposely maimed and deformed to garner more sympathy/money. Sick-o.

 

I've been told by a couple of long time expats here that some Thais have been known to take a hammer to their infants arms and legs. We watched an investigative journalism show in Russia that said people were getting limbs amputated by amateur doctors and they keep the babies on glue so they won't cry while beggars hold them. It's all very fucked up and represents a very sick, small segment in both these societies. There seems to be a connection between poverty and an utter moral breakdown. Maybe we need to amend "power corrupts" to "power and poverty corrupts"

 

Fucked.

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And then there are places where children are purposely maimed and deformed to garner more sympathy/money. Sick-o.

 

yeah, my mother told me of a couple stories where gypsies maimed their children for this reason. On one occasion a gypsy beggar approached my mother and her boyfriend for money for her "sick child" my mum's boyfriend at the time said that the child didn't look too sick to him and kept walking. Sometime later, my mum saw the same lady with the same child, without one of her hands, begging for money.

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Let me ask you this. In most instances, Africans who are starving to death are in that situation because of warlords choking off food supplies. Knowing that, are we bad as nations to not go in and bomb the hell out of these countries to establish better governments? Why or why not?

 

 

i agree with virgile becuase when i went on a mission trip to hounduras i saw somthing i had never seen before... the help drug. the help drug is when you give nations hand outs and it simply maintans their current situation it dosnt make it better in the long term. we handed out thousandes of perscriptions and saw thousands of patients but within a month most would be back in the same position wit nothing but a empty pill bottle and now way to finish the treatment. we need to work on long term solutions for people and biuld them a better life, not continus handouts and helping to end warlords misuse of aid is part of this.

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This is the question I also posted on Yahoo:

 

I've noticed an interesting trend among the Christian people. According to 99% of the Evangelical Christians hell is a very real place of torment and everlasting pain awaits everyone who doesn't accept Jesus.

 

At the same time Christians aren't doing everything to protect people around them from hell... This is quite disturbing. If they sincerely believe in Hell, they should make EVERYTHING possible every single person they know be aware that Hell exists and accept Jesus as their Savior.

 

Yet, most Christians seem indifferent towards the fact that the world around them is dying, that every single minute many people on Earth die and many of them die without being Christians... Most Christians go to the cafes, meet with their friends, laugh and do nothing so more people can be saved.

 

This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You tell skeptics about the good news and they complain and say "don't, don't". When they aren't being preached to, they complain and say we don't care :shrug: Fickle humans.

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  • 3 months later...

This is the question I also posted on Yahoo:

 

I've noticed an interesting trend among the Christian people. According to 99% of the Evangelical Christians hell is a very real place of torment and everlasting pain awaits everyone who doesn't accept Jesus.

 

At the same time Christians aren't doing everything to protect people around them from hell... This is quite disturbing. If they sincerely believe in Hell, they should make EVERYTHING possible every single person they know be aware that Hell exists and accept Jesus as their Savior.

 

Yet, most Christians seem indifferent towards the fact that the world around them is dying, that every single minute many people on Earth die and many of them die without being Christians... Most Christians go to the cafes, meet with their friends, laugh and do nothing so more people can be saved.

 

I don't really think anybody at all that is not mentally ill believe any part of that, even the clergy, its just too stupid. Many try to "make" themselves believe it, and may in their conscious mind feel they really do, but it is fundamentally against our survival instincts to honestly, whole brained, including the subconscious areas, to personally commit to believe as real world fact, anything like that is rarely considered on the same level of "knowledge faith" that hitting a nail with a hammer drives it into wood. We can't because or inner selves that don't but into the great pumpkin, that part does not swallow it either, no matter how sincerely you tell yourself and everyone else... IMO, they don't believe it either.

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This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You tell skeptics about the good news and they complain and say "don't, don't". When they aren't being preached to, they complain and say we don't care :shrug: Fickle humans.

 

I'm not that fickle.... I myself would not complain at all if you religious people would keep your so-called good news to yourself.

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This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You tell skeptics about the good news and they complain and say "don't, don't". When they aren't being preached to, they complain and say we don't care Wendyshrug.gif Fickle humans.

 

I'm not that fickle.... I myself would not complain at all if you religious people would keep your so-called good news to yourself.

 

Hi Citsonga, long time no write. You're one of the more quiet laid back lions -- not mischievous like Par, Florduh, Agi, Ouro' and others ( alas, I'm mishievous too and I tend to get distracted by them). I don't forget you. Please understand that Christians believe that you will miss out on living forever and they do not want that to happen. I mean, picture a bunch of former mischievous people going to heaven smile.png and even a laid back one that was not interested at first.

Belief should not be forced. Do you agree that sharing on the net is an unobtrusive way to have civil (hopefully) and interesting discussions about God and religion?

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Please understand that Christians believe that you will miss out on living forever and they do not want that to happen.

 

What if we don't WANT to live forever? Not that it's going to happen anyway, but I say no thanks.

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Please understand that Christians believe that you will miss out on living forever and they do not want that to happen.

 

What if we don't WANT to live forever? Not that it's going to happen anyway, but I say no thanks.

 

Ooooooh, another mischievous lion ;) If one does not want to live forever then it won't happen. Some people around here like to say it is not a choice though. They argue about everything :)

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Please understand that Christians believe that you will miss out on living forever and they do not want that to happen.

 

What if we don't WANT to live forever? Not that it's going to happen anyway, but I say no thanks.

 

Ooooooh, another mischievous lion wink.png If one does not want to live forever then it won't happen. Some people around here like to say it is not a choice though. They argue about everything smile.png

 

Right. It's the ex-Christians who argue about everything. Why are we on your website again? Is it because we came here to argue with you?

 

Fact is that if your God exists just like your Bible says then your God did not respect our free will about being born and living this life full of suffering. Clearly God doesn't care at all about our free will. None of us agreed to risk a number of days living when most likely that will end in eternal torment. If your Bible is right then most people would have been better off never existing in the first place. That makes God evil for making them just to be tortured.

 

But you don't trust me because I'm not a Bible.

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This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You tell skeptics about the good news and they complain and say "don't, don't". When they aren't being preached to, they complain and say we don't care Wendyshrug.gif Fickle humans.

 

I'm not that fickle.... I myself would not complain at all if you religious people would keep your so-called good news to yourself.

 

Hi Citsonga, long time no write. You're one of the more quiet laid back lions -- not mischievous like Par, Florduh, Agi, Ouro' and others ( alas, I'm mishievous too and I tend to get distracted by them).

 

I haven't been as active on the board as I was for a while, but I still stop in and browse some.

 

Indeed, I am usually fairly laid back, so you got me right there. ;)

 

I don't forget you. Please understand that Christians believe that you will miss out on living forever and they do not want that to happen.

 

I fully understand that mindset. I was a Christian for most of my life, you know. As a believer, I equally did not want to see people miss salvation. Thankfully my understanding has grown enough that I can see that it's just mythology.

 

I mean, picture a bunch of former mischievous people going to heaven smile.png and even a laid back one that was not interested at first.

 

I suppose you're referring again to me there, but it is incorrect to say that I was not interested at first. I was so indoctrinated with it that I could not be disinterested. My life was consumed by Christianity for many years, and I actually did not want to let it go when I started seeing through the sham. Evidence trumped desire, though.

 

Belief should not be forced.

 

I'd take that even further. In a literal sense, belief CAN'T be forced. One can't just choose to believe something because someone else demands it.

 

On the other hand, of course, one can be conditioned to believe a certain way through indoctrination. We see that all over the world. In predominantly Hindu areas, most accept Hinduism to some extent or other. In predominantly Muslim areas, most accept Islam to some extent or other. In predominantly Christian areas, most accept Christianity to some extent or other. While that's not quite the same as being forced to believe, it is very difficult for people to break free from a worldview that their environs conditioned them to believe.

 

Do you agree that sharing on the net is an unobtrusive way to have civil (hopefully) and interesting discussions about God and religion?

 

Civil discourse is great. I was somewhat yanking your chain with my prior comment. Even though I would much rather go through life without being bombarded by mythology on every side, the fact is that mythology is here to stay (at least for the foreseeable future), so civil discussions are welcome. Unfortunately, such discussions don't always remain civil (that goes for all sides, be they Christians or people of other faiths or nonbelievers).

 

Take care. I should get to bed soon and try to get more than the measly 3 hours of sleep that I got last night....

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Re: Justice vs. Mercy

 

Some people don't deserve mercy. Rapists. Child abusers. Spousal abusers. Murderers. These are people who have given up any and all claim to "mercy" because they don't show any to their victims.

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This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You tell skeptics about the good news and they complain and say "don't, don't". When they aren't being preached to, they complain and say we don't care :shrug: Fickle humans.

 

Look I found Thumb she was on TV

 

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This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You tell skeptics about the good news and they complain and say "don't, don't". When they aren't being preached to, they complain and say we don't care Wendyshrug.gif Fickle humans.

 

I'm not that fickle.... I myself would not complain at all if you religious people would keep your so-called good news to yourself.

 

Thumb said: Hi Citsonga, long time no write. You're one of the more quiet laid back lions -- not mischievous like Par, Florduh, Agi, Ouro' and others ( alas, I'm mishievous too and I tend to get distracted by them).

 

Cits said: I haven't been as active on the board as I was for a while, but I still stop in and browse some.

 

Indeed, I am usually fairly laid back, so you got me right there. wink.png

 

Yes.There are some other laid back folks that I noticed around here.

 

I don't forget you. Please understand that Christians believe that you will miss out on living forever and they do not want that to happen.

 

Cits said: I fully understand that mindset. I was a Christian for most of my life, you know. As a believer, I equally did not want to see people miss salvation. Thankfully my understanding has grown enough that I can see that it's just mythology.

It's not myth, bro'.

 

I mean, picture a bunch of former mischievous people going to heaven smile.png and even a laid back one that was not interested at first.

 

Cits said: I suppose you're referring again to me there, but it is incorrect to say that I was not interested at first. I was so indoctrinated with it that I could not be disinterested. My life was consumed by Christianity for many years, and I actually did not want to let it go when I started seeing through the sham. Evidence trumped desire, though.

Yes, I was referring to you there but I was not talking about your past, I was referring to now and the future. Although you don't believe now, I hope you eventually will believe again and therefore be saved.

 

 

Thumb said: Belief should not be forced.

 

Cits said: I'd take that even further. In a literal sense, belief CAN'T be forced. One can't just choose to believe something because someone else demands it.

 

On the other hand, of course, one can be conditioned to believe a certain way through indoctrination. We see that all over the world. In predominantly Hindu areas, most accept Hinduism to some extent or other. In predominantly Muslim areas, most accept Islam to some extent or other. In predominantly Christian areas, most accept Christianity to some extent or other. While that's not quite the same as being forced to believe, it is very difficult for people to break free from a worldview that their environs conditioned them to believe.

 

Well yeah, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. A person may be able to force someone to go through the motions of religious ritual but that does not make the person mean it. You know Cits, some people on this board wanted God to do that, make people follow His rules without them being intellectually convinced.

There are a lot of people who follow the religion of their country or their family (they are culturally religious) without understanding WHY they are required to believe what they do. So yes, I agree with you that "it is very difficult for people to break free from a worldview that their environs conditioned them to believe." There are so many people around the world that do not have the freedom to worship or not worship as they choose sad.png

 

Thumb said: Do you agree that sharing on the net is an unobtrusive way to have civil (hopefully) and interesting discussions about God and religion?

Cits said: Civil discourse is great. I was somewhat yanking your chain with my prior comment. Even though I would much rather go through life without being bombarded by mythology on every side, the fact is that mythology is here to stay (at least for the foreseeable future), so civil discussions are welcome. Unfortunately, such discussions don't always remain civil (that goes for all sides, be they Christians or people of other faiths or nonbelievers).

 

Take care. I should get to bed soon and try to get more than the measly 3 hours of sleep that I got last night....

 

You were yanking my chain? So you're a wee bit mischievous too? A sense of humor is GREAT! You would much rather go through life without being bombarded by mythology on every side? I bet you watch all the stupid mythologies on TV, from where I'm sitting a lot of people are living the lives like those people on the sitcoms or they want to live like that (this group includes Christians), so yeah, we are bombarded by mythology.

 

3 hrs sleep? How can you function? I was like that when I stumbled upon this ws, I don't even know what I wrote but I know I felt sorry for all the people that were having anxiety over the "hell burning forever" issue.

Yup, that carnal human nature can get in the way of civil discussions but it is refreshing to find people who can disagree without being disagreeable.

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This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You tell skeptics about the good news and they complain and say "don't, don't". When they aren't being preached to, they complain and say we don't care Wendyshrug.gif Fickle humans.

 

Look I found Thumb she was on TV

 

 

Hi Xerc, how are you?

 

OK,I Iove you, bye bye! (N.B. I'm not promoting violence, Mindy is funny)

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Cits said: I fully understand that mindset. I was a Christian for most of my life, you know. As a believer, I equally did not want to see people miss salvation. Thankfully my understanding has grown enough that I can see that it's just mythology.

It's not myth, bro'.

 

You build your whole life and your entire personal identity around something that makes extraordinary claims and for which you have no objective evidence at all. It's not just myth but it is also delusion.

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Re: Justice vs. Mercy

 

Some people don't deserve mercy. Rapists. Child abusers. Spousal abusers. Murderers. These are people who have given up any and all claim to "mercy" because they don't show any to their victims.

 

It is written "For he shall have judgment without mercy, that has showed no mercy; and mercy triumphs over judgment." James 2:13

 

I am learning that us finite humans do not see the BIG picture. God says do NOT judge/condemn others for He ALONE knows what is in each person's heart.

 

My judgmental side will say that Richard Dawkins is such a hubris head and I'd call him "Brain". My bible says don't condemn people. I used to wonder why can't Richard just live his life and leave people to believe what they want instead of being so mean and condescending to religious folks. Then a while back I read that a religious person molested him and I really do see why God says He will judge. I now have more compassion for Richard even though I don't care for his shenanigans.

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Re: Justice vs. Mercy

 

Some people don't deserve mercy. Rapists. Child abusers. Spousal abusers. Murderers. These are people who have given up any and all claim to "mercy" because they don't show any to their victims.

 

It is written <blah blah blah>

 

There are thousands of men and women you can quote who can offer wiser words of advise and who's authorship is clear.

 

I am learning that us finite humans do not see the BIG picture.

 

You would have learned it sooner if you had asked a scientist. That is a good philosophy regarding everything else. If you want to learn something read a book based on the work of scientists.

 

I used to wonder why can't Richard just live his life and leave people to believe what they want instead of being so mean and condescending to religious folks.

 

But do you wonder why religious folks can't just live their lives and leave non-religious people alone? Why are the religious folks so mean and condescending to non-religious folks?

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