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Goodbye Jesus

Pressing On?


Victory2011

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The more I studied, the more questions I had and they couldn't answer the really difficult questions like: If adam and eve and the talking snake were the ONLY people on earth at that time - then who stood outside the garden and documented the whole thing? They just could never answer my questions. :shrug:

 

So lemme get this straight, becuz you couldn't identify a reporter or amanuensis or court recorder or SHEESH, just stinkin' someone who could write >> and they had to be outside the Garden (????); well, you just can't believe the Bible. What kinda church did you attend?

 

Do you believe that mutations + natural selection + time = the world we have today?

 

I'd like to think that one's choice to abandon Christian nonsense is the result of many deeply profound considerations because life usually is more complex than simplistic black and white dualism. With respect to your question about which church she attended, don't most Christian churches teach the same bullshit found in the bible? Just wondering. I've been to a few different churches. They all seem to use the same bible, say I'm a sinner and should be afraid of Jesus and afraid of going to hell and to give them my money. Guess that is a simplistic synopsis of Christianity , isnt it?

 

Regarding natural selection, that seems rather non-sequitir to your previous paragraph and may be an attempt at ad hominem but there's probably someone else here that knows much more about those logical fallacies than I do.

 

Have a good day!

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Many of the posters in this thread have summed up a lot of what I went through to deconvert, but there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned, and it's what has kept me from ever even being tempted to return to Christianity.

 

That was the realization that if it is somehow true, God is an evil abusive tyrant and I would much rather burn in hell than be anywhere near him.

 

Of course, it's all nonsense, so I don't have to worry about that, but once fear no longer ruled me, it made everything else a lot easier.

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Do you believe that mutations + natural selection + time = the world we have today?

 

It makes far more sense and is an incredibly simpler explanation than, "This omnipotent being who was around forever made everything".

 

 

 

 

 

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Do you believe that mutations + natural selection + time = the world we have today?

I believe what evidence indicates, what logic and reason dictate, and whatever is the most likely answer.

 

In other words, observable fact and reality determine what I believe to be true. I used to believe the Bible was true and tried to make the universe conform to that. It's a little embarrassing to admit how I blinded myself to reality in order to maintain and defend my unfounded beliefs.

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Do you believe that mutations + natural selection + time = the world we have today?

I believe what evidence indicates, what logic and reason dictate, and whatever is the most likely answer.

 

In other words, observable fact and reality determine what I believe to be true. I used to believe the Bible was true and tried to make the universe conform to that. It's a little embarrassing to admit how I blinded myself to reality in order to maintain and defend my unfounded beliefs.

 

Don't be embarrassed.

Kids have trouble differentiating fantasy from reality.

Some take longer than others and some never grow out of it. :P

 

 

 

 

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Do you believe that mutations + natural selection + time = the world we have today?

How do you believe the planets were formed Ray? Do you believe they were formed with really big hands rolling mud into gigantic dirt balls? Forget about humans and animals, let's talk planets. How are planets made? You have the answer?

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Do you believe that mutations + natural selection + time = the world we have today?

How do you believe the planets were formed Ray? Do you believe they were formed with really big hands rolling mud into gigantic dirt balls? Forget about humans and animals, let's talk planets. How are planets made? You have the answer?

It's quite interesting to see how Hardcore Christians™ like Ray doesn't interpret the Bible literally, but essentially denies what the Bible says.

 

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

 

Same goes for the ocean and sky.

 

If they truly believed in the Bible, literally, they would have to admit that God could very well have used evolution to create life. But no, they deny it because of idealistic fervor, zealotry, and adherence to (only) 100 year old anti-science fundamentalism. They don't believe in the Bible. They believe in themselves and their own interpretation, and accuse everyone else of interpreting it wrong.

 

So why didn't God use evolution to create the world? Because the ego-tripping asshole fundamentalists says so. :rolleyes:

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So why didn't God use evolution to create the world? Because the ego-tripping asshole fundamentalists says so. :rolleyes:

 

Because evolution is a far too complicated topic for a simple minded God to conceive?

 

 

 

 

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So why didn't God use evolution to create the world? Because the ego-tripping asshole fundamentalists says so. :rolleyes:

 

Because evolution is a far too complicated topic for a simple minded God to conceive?

:HaHa: Good answer.

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So why didn't God use evolution to create the world? Because the ego-tripping asshole fundamentalists says so. :rolleyes:

 

Because evolution is a far too complicated topic for a simple minded God to conceive?

:HaHa: Good answer.

 

I'd say I know and how awesome I am but I'm a humble God not one of these egotistical ones and I demand no sacrifice either :)

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd say I know and how awesome I am but I'm a humble God not one of these egotistical ones and I demand no sacrifice either :)

Really? You don't need a human sacrifice, or the death of your own divine son, to satisfy your blood thirst? :3:

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Do you believe that mutations + natural selection + time = the world we have today?

How do you believe the planets were formed Ray? Do you believe they were formed with really big hands rolling mud into gigantic dirt balls? Forget about humans and animals, let's talk planets. How are planets made? You have the answer?

It's quite interesting to see how Hardcore Christians™ like Ray doesn't interpret the Bible literally, but essentially denies what the Bible says.

 

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

 

Same goes for the ocean and sky.

That's interesting. Here's a historical account of the evolutionary process, since this is after all an authoritative record. Let the land produce... It's right there. From the elements of the earth, plant life emerges. :) Furthermore, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds". Again, from the elements of the earth animal live arises. That's Evolution! And when it says God created man in his own image it doesn't say how, it just remarks there was something special about this life; this life that also emerged from the land.

 

Oh wait.... I forgot about the other creation myth in Genesis 2. That talks about God using some spittle from His mouth to form mud figurines, that he breathed on and magically they came to life. This chapter too is an authoritative account of history and science and must be taken literally. So evolution in chapter 1 must actually mean God's spittle and fingers forming figurines of man, and animals (how could they come into being - certainly not through evolution!), and plants as well through some other non-natural means. It only runs naturally after first being created magically.

 

So why didn't God use evolution to create the world? Because the ego-tripping asshole fundamentalists says so. :rolleyes:

Yes, what is so hard to keep the whole idea of an overseer-creator/designer God who just happened to used Evolution as His "spittle and mud"? I don't get that.

 

Ray? Why not? A lot of Christians accept Evolution as a fact, and have no problem integrating it with their faith. Why do you? Is it because you as a qualified scientist don't accept the results of the past 150 years in all areas of science? Or does it have to do with your faith needing to believe it's not true for some reason?

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I'd say I know and how awesome I am but I'm a humble God not one of these egotistical ones and I demand no sacrifice either :)

Really? You don't need a human sacrifice, or the death of your own divine son, to satisfy your blood thirst? :3:

 

Nope.

None of that shit. If I want to kill something I do it myself rather than get someone else to do it or get someone else to pay for my mistakes.

I just require a few simple things but the main one is to be able to think critically.

Not a big fan of following orders for the sake of following orders.

I prefer people think WHY they do something rather than passing that responsibility onto a book of errors.

 

Anyone who answers, "because the Bible says so" gets a free passage to hell.

Its a really short trip though because I don't punish people forever because they made a one off mistake.

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Actually to add, chapter two just says man was formed from the dust of the ground, He breathed life into them. That's very figurative. And even a literalist could read that as man came from the elements of the earth. Again, this is what Evolution explains. The dust of the earth is literally correct, scientifically.

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So why didn't God use evolution to create the world? Because the ego-tripping asshole fundamentalists says so. :rolleyes:

Yes, what is so hard to keep the whole idea of an overseer-creator/designer God who just happened to used Evolution as His "spittle and mud"? I don't get that.

Yeah. I know. I don't get it either.

 

I actually kind of like the idea of a God using evolution for creation. It's both scientific and religious at the same time. I just have a hard time believing in an intelligent God, but that's another matter. It's somehow appealing to think of a God with the smarts of making a autonomous system that would evolve life.

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Actually to add, chapter two just says man was formed from the dust of the ground, He breathed life into them. That's very figurative. And even a literalist could read that as man came from the elements of the earth. Again, this is what Evolution explains. The dust of the earth is literally correct, scientifically.

Here's another funny thing. Ken Hovind, the great anti-evolutionist who was arrested and jailed a while back, kept on using the argument that evolution was wrong because it believed we came from rocks.

 

So how about dust? Is that any different than rocks? Crush the rock, get dust... TADA! No difference.

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Actually to add, chapter two just says man was formed from the dust of the ground, He breathed life into them. That's very figurative. And even a literalist could read that as man came from the elements of the earth. Again, this is what Evolution explains. The dust of the earth is literally correct, scientifically.

Here's another funny thing. Ken Hovind, the great anti-evolutionist who was arrested and jailed a while back, kept on using the argument that evolution was wrong because it believed we came from rocks.

 

So how about dust? Is that any different than rocks? Crush the rock, get dust... TADA! No difference.

:lmao: You're joking! Was he a moron or something? This actually comes straight back to my serious question to Ray. Where did planets come from? How did they happen?

 

 

All of it. The planets, the animals, humankind, are all made of dust. Formed dust. :Doh: HOW DID IT FORM?

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:lmao: You're joking! Was he a moron or something? This actually comes straight back to my serious question to Ray. Where did planets come from? How did they happen?

 

Not joking at all. :HaHa:

 

I heard him in at least two different debates using this argument. You see why my respect for anti-evolutionists have sunk to zero.

 

All of it. The planets, the animals, humankind, are all made of dust. Formed dust. :Doh: HOW DID IT FORM?

And also, how does each individual of humans amd animals alike form today?

 

I don't see any magical hand manipulating each cell division. Reproduction and growth are both very much 100% natural processes. You can observe each step and even photograph it. And it's a lot better understood today than ever. (not saying that life is just cells, its also the whole interaction of all things, but still natural.)

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