Letter From Our Former Pastor

[stryper]

Not just Satin you have to worry about, but his rouge angles as well.

 

Awww celtic beat me too it.

 

 

:20 minutes later:

 

 

How did go through the uncanny valley and wind up in Bow Chica wow wow after starting at rouge angles?

[SummerMoon]

LOL. That is so funny!!!!!!

[Lethallunacy]

the power of Satin. Scary shit rite thar

[ScifiChick]

But you will overcome Satin and the Lord will use you in a very powerful way because there are so many today that wonder if Jesus is real. You will find that the Living Lord is real and has chosen you to be His vessel to bring those who doubt to know that the lord is real and alive.

 

Interestingly, someone predicted the same thing about me when I told them I had learned that the religion is false: that I would come to see that the religion is true and that I'd be a powerful apologist for the Lord. Four years and it hasn't happened yet, and never will.

 

I got something similar recently, when a well meaning relative of my husband mistook my passion and fiery personality for a call from God. I wish I could laugh about it, but it just makes me sad.

 

 

 

[agnosticator]

Dear Les and Michelle,

 

Les as I pray for you this morning I know that you are having a great battle with Satin. Satin has told you that since there are passages in the Bible that are ridiculous and don't make sense.

 

"Satin Doll"Joe Pass

 

 

This song is dedicated to Michelle, Satin's Doll!!!

[Stamps1962]

So, no one can refute that Jesus lived or that he died on the cross?

 

Please show me where in anyplace other than the Bible this story can be found. It's amazing and a little scary that these nitwits can talk themselves into believing something so lacking in third party verification and then proceed to bet the farm on it.

[Ro-bear]

I never knew a fabric had such power.

 

 

Then you aren't paying attention. People all over America are afraid of the Muslins because they are controlled by Satin.

[Monk]

Awwww... who doesn't love Satin???

 

 

 

I always wondered why the bible depicts "Satin" as a serpent when, to me, a CAT was always the more obvious choice.....

 

Wicked little creatures (cats)! lol

[Monk]

Satin has told you that since there are passages in the Bible that are ridiculous and don't make sense.

...?

 

As I recall, we covered incomplete sentences in 3rd grade. This guy didn't even finish his thought in the next sentence.

 

Someone forgot to sharpen this knife.

 

LOL, you are right and he has a PHD!?!

 

Did he buy it online from a Nigerian?

 

 

He surely doesn't have a PhD....even christian schools/colleges etc., do okay with teaching grammar!

[freespirit]

I never knew a fabric had such power.

 

 

Then you aren't paying attention. People all over America are afraid of the Muslins because they are controlled by Satin.

 

[chel356]

So, no one can refute that Jesus lived or that he died on the cross?

 

Please show me where in anyplace other than the Bible this story can be found. It's amazing and a little scary that these nitwits can talk themselves into believing something so lacking in third party verification and then proceed to bet the farm on it.

 

 

I've been looking. I can't find it anywhere.

[freespirit]

So, no one can refute that Jesus lived or that he died on the cross?

 

Please show me where in anyplace other than the Bible this story can be found. It's amazing and a little scary that these nitwits can talk themselves into believing something so lacking in third party verification and then proceed to bet the farm on it.

 

 

Here's the deal. When I was 19 years old I had a huge life changing experience when I gave my life to Jesus and got baptized. Then, the church basically proceeded to abuse me for the next 19 years. Now, I read the Bible and say "Huh? This is weird" after believing in it for so long. I can't explain away that experience or the many others I had. On the flipside, I can't explain away the abuse in the name of God based on the Bible. So, I stay home, pray to an unknown named God and try to live my life in a way that is good for me. I can't call Christians nitwits who lack any verification. Many people's beliefs are verfied by those life changing experiences altough I would venture to guess that Muslims and Hindus have them too and they probably also proceed to beleive that they are the ones God likes best.

[chosendarkness]

So, no one can refute that Jesus lived or that he died on the cross?

 

Please show me where in anyplace other than the Bible this story can be found. It's amazing and a little scary that these nitwits can talk themselves into believing something so lacking in third party verification and then proceed to bet the farm on it.

 

 

Here's the deal. When I was 19 years old I had a huge life changing experience when I gave my life to Jesus and got baptized. Then, the church basically proceeded to abuse me for the next 19 years. Now, I read the Bible and say "Huh? This is weird" after believing in it for so long. I can't explain away that experience or the many others I had. On the flipside, I can't explain away the abuse in the name of God based on the Bible. So, I stay home, pray to an unknown named God and try to live my life in a way that is good for me. I can't call Christians nitwits who lack any verification. Many people's beliefs are verfied by those life changing experiences altough I would venture to guess that Muslims and Hindus have them too and they probably also proceed to beleive that they are the ones God likes best.

 

People usually assume their religious experience is directly related to the religion they grew up around. Even if they weren't raised religious. And then they assume their religion is the only one that has those experiences.

 

Christians seem like nitwits on the outside, but really they're brainwashed. I try to remember that when talking to them in person. This is a person who's mind-fucked so I have to be delicate if I want to try to get anything across to them. In the forums though, I just let them have it because I don't even know them.

[Vigile]

I can't explain away that experience or the many others I had.

 

Sorry if this is a sensitive topic for you. If it is, ignore my question.

 

Have you ever tried to explain it? I don't mean just thought about it. I mean, exposed this question to our current understanding of brain chemistry, brain reaction to various stimuli and our understanding of human psychology?

 

The citizens of Pompei couldn't explain the volcano and surely it seemed like the wrath of god back then, but that's because they didn't have the tools and knowledge to do so. Today, their perspective is understandable, but also understandably wrong.

[freespirit]

I can't explain away that experience or the many others I had.

 

Sorry if this is a sensitive topic for you. If it is, ignore my question.

 

Have you ever tried to explain it? I don't mean just thought about it. I mean, exposed this question to our current understanding of brain chemistry, brain reaction to various stimuli and our understanding of human psychology?

 

The citizens of Pompei couldn't explain the volcano and surely it seemed like the wrath of god back then, but that's because they didn't have the tools and knowledge to do so. Today, their perspective is understandable, but also understandably wrong.

 

I don't mind being asked. Sure, I've tried to explain these things. But, I don't think we have the tools and knowledge to explain these things now. To me, I believe they are spiritual experiences. Now, keep in mind that I have slowly, as my thinking has expanded, moved away from beliefs I once had. I am not saying that could never happen. However, I have no rational explanation for many things that happened and I am completely comfortable explaining them as spiritual experiences. I really see no reason not to. I tend to shy away from any belief that says "This is so and that's the end of the story". Just as I see that hard line belief system in religion, I also see it in atheism. I have no desire to hold hard line beliefs that divide people. I want to look for truth in all places and I don't believe Christians are all wrong and others are all right or vice versa. I'm pretty comfortable where I am and have no vendetta or axe to grind. I just have my truth, my journey. And that's all it is and that's all I feel it has to be. I like life right now. I am currently taking a class in Developmental Psychology. Who knows. Maybe I'll learn something I will apply to further my journey.

[Vigile]

But, I don't think we have the tools and knowledge to explain these things now.

 

Sorry if this comes across as condescending or as a personal challenge. It's not my intention. I have come to the conclusion that some people are wired to have an need spirituality and the fact that I am not isn't a valid reason to discount what others need/have. I do believe that these experiences can be explained by the way the brain works and that we do have the tools to explain them to a reasonable degree. And, just to give you an idea where I'm coming from, so much of what we didn't know or understand in the past has been explained with scientific breakthroughs in understanding and each and every time it has, natural explanations have perfectly accounted for what was in the past just mysterious. Given the 100% track record science has in providing valid, natural explanations for mysterious phenomena, it occurs to me that it's reasonable to assume what we don't know now will also be one day explained with perfectly valid, natural explanations. Whether that discounts the experiences of others or not, I don't know. I suspect for some it will and others not because experiences are personal regardless of their causes. Anyway, that's my .02

 

Here's a brief summary of some of the tools and understanding we do now have if anyone's interested.

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=110997741

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2165004/

 

I also see it in atheism. I have no desire to hold hard line beliefs that divide people.

 

I don't like this either. Human relationships run much deeper and how we come down on the god question seems like a bad reason to get angry with one another. Most of my family and many of my friends are religious. That's their business and as long as they don't try and shove their beliefs on me, which they don't fortunately, it's not going to change our relationships.

[chosendarkness]

I can't explain away that experience or the many others I had.

 

Sorry if this is a sensitive topic for you. If it is, ignore my question.

 

Have you ever tried to explain it? I don't mean just thought about it. I mean, exposed this question to our current understanding of brain chemistry, brain reaction to various stimuli and our understanding of human psychology?

 

The citizens of Pompei couldn't explain the volcano and surely it seemed like the wrath of god back then, but that's because they didn't have the tools and knowledge to do so. Today, their perspective is understandable, but also understandably wrong.

 

I don't mind being asked. Sure, I've tried to explain these things. But, I don't think we have the tools and knowledge to explain these things now. To me, I believe they are spiritual experiences. Now, keep in mind that I have slowly, as my thinking has expanded, moved away from beliefs I once had. I am not saying that could never happen. However, I have no rational explanation for many things that happened and I am completely comfortable explaining them as spiritual experiences. I really see no reason not to. I tend to shy away from any belief that says "This is so and that's the end of the story". Just as I see that hard line belief system in religion, I also see it in atheism. I have no desire to hold hard line beliefs that divide people. I want to look for truth in all places and I don't believe Christians are all wrong and others are all right or vice versa. I'm pretty comfortable where I am and have no vendetta or axe to grind. I just have my truth, my journey. And that's all it is and that's all I feel it has to be. I like life right now. I am currently taking a class in Developmental Psychology. Who knows. Maybe I'll learn something I will apply to further my journey.

I totally agree. I'm tired of movements that are reactions to other movements. People don't really think for themselves, they just kind of go along with everyone else. They pick a side and then don't see things any other way. I can't do that because as a Christian fundie, that kind of thinking really fucked me up. I can't do it again.

[freespirit]

But, I don't think we have the tools and knowledge to explain these things now.

 

Sorry if this comes across as condescending or as a personal challenge. It's not my intention. I have come to the conclusion that some people are wired to have an need spirituality and the fact that I am not isn't a valid reason to discount what others need/have. I do believe that these experiences can be explained by the way the brain works and that we do have the tools to explain them to a reasonable degree. And, just to give you an idea where I'm coming from, so much of what we didn't know or understand in the past has been explained with scientific breakthroughs in understanding and each and every time it has, natural explanations have perfectly accounted for what was in the past just mysterious. Given the 100% track record science has in providing valid, natural explanations for mysterious phenomena, it occurs to me that it's reasonable to assume what we don't know now will also be one day explained with perfectly valid, natural explanations. Whether that discounts the experiences of others or not, I don't know. I suspect for some it will and others not because experiences are personal regardless of their causes. Anyway, that's my .02

 

Here's a brief summary of some of the tools and understanding we do now have if anyone's interested.

 

http://www.npr.org/t...oryId=110997741

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2165004/

 

I also see it in atheism. I have no desire to hold hard line beliefs that divide people.

 

I don't like this either. Human relationships run much deeper and how we come down on the god question seems like a bad reason to get angry with one another. Most of my family and many of my friends are religious. That's their business and as long as they don't try and shove their beliefs on me, which they don't fortunately, it's not going to change our relationships.

 

I have always been a very spiritual person, even as a child. It has occurred to me that perhaps some of us are more connected to the universal mind than others. If people want to call the universal mind "God" or not is their own choice. I will call my experiences spiritual experiences and say I have been connected to "God" because it is what people understand. I do believe in God or a universal mind.

 

If there is a collective mind or some sort of energy that transcends our own personal minds (for example, we have billions of cells in our body that all work for our one mind....we would be like an individual cell.) I think some of us have the ability to tune in to the collective mind or energy more than others. I can't deny some of the experiences I have had. They are inexplicable. They are what kept me in fundamentalism as long as I was. This is why I have a hard time criticizing fundamentalists too harshly. If connecting to the universal mind stimulates serotonin, so be it.

 

Fundamentalists are good people (usually) who see things through a different paradigm. Unfortunately, I think they are exploited by that paradigm. However, I believe any paradigm can exploit people which is why I try to avoid them. I don't want to jump on any bandwagons. If something lines up closely to what I already think, I may be interested.....or maybe not. But I want the thought process to agree with ME rather than me agreeing with the thought process.

 

By the way, I find your questions interesting, but I have a hard time reading your posts because of your avatar. I didn't find your honest question offensive, I hope you won't find my honest assessment of your avatar offensive.

[freespirit]

 

I totally agree. I'm tired of movements that are reactions to other movements. People don't really think for themselves, they just kind of go along with everyone else. They pick a side and then don't see things any other way. I can't do that because as a Christian fundie, that kind of thinking really fucked me up. I can't do it again.

 

Exactly. It's like people leave one bandwagon just to get on another.

[Vigile]

By the way, I find your questions interesting, but I have a hard time reading your posts because of your avatar.

 

Really? Why?

 

As for your spirituality, I've learned that I have a hard time understanding this, but the fact that I don't understand it somehow serves as evidence that there might be something to it that is valid, just not for me. If I could understand it, I could rationally disagree with it. How can I disagree with something that just doesn't follow in my mind, but seems to make perfect sense to other intelligent people?

[freespirit]

Really? Why?

 

As for your spirituality, I've learned that I have a hard time understanding this, but the fact that I don't understand it somehow serves as evidence that there might be something to it that is valid, just not for me. If I could understand it, I could rationally disagree with it. How can I disagree with something that just doesn't follow in my mind, but seems to make perfect sense to other intelligent people?

 

Thanks. I have also come to realize that not everyone understands "the connection", so to speak and that doesn't make them wrong or bad people, just more literal about the world around them. I think that people who are not as connected to the universal mind (I am not even sure if that is how that should be expressed. This is new verbiage for me.) are more likely to be prone to like the sciences, math, physics, electronics....things that are very factual and solid. People like I am are more likely to like English, Music, Writing. (Hey, I capitalized those and not the others. Freudian slip. ) I have taken a few science classes in recent years and it definitely broadened my thinking. I think that both sides should find value in the other as both sides have value.

 

As far as your avatar, I am kind of regretting mentioning it, but there are a few avatars on here that make me breeze past the writers and not take them very seriously. I am having to work hard to look past them and see what the people are saying. I try and understand that this forum is probably made up of people that may go to the crass in order to make a point. I get that. But I find your avatar tasteless and crass. When I was a little girl in the Catholic church, I used to spend a great deal of time looking at that picture in your avatar (sans cigarette). The avatar is about the sacred heart of Jesus. When I look at that picture (not your avatar), I can't help feeling the feelings I had as a child, having great respect for it. I have some wonderful memories from the Catholic church and my extended Catholic family. I am not Catholic and don't want to be, but the avatar makes me feel punched in the gut and it literally hurts me to look at it. I will breeze past most writers that have a crass avatar.

[Vigile]

I'm sorry it offends. I can't change it for that reason though, I hope you understand. While I understand some have good feelings about the jesus symbol, I have extremely bad feelings that endure years later because of the harsh hell trying to follow him at his word I experienced during my formative years. Perhaps it's crass. Crass can sometimes be apt as Shakespeare showed many times. IOW, the symbol that gave you good feelings, raped me. I don't think that's hyperbole either.

[freespirit]

I'm sorry it offends. I can't change it for that reason though, I hope you understand. While I understand some have good feelings about the jesus symbol, I have extremely bad feelings that endure years later because of the harsh hell trying to follow him at his word I experienced during my formative years. Perhaps it's crass. Crass can sometimes be apt as Shakespeare showed many times. IOW, the symbol that gave you good feelings, raped me. I don't think that's hyperbole either.

 

Yeah, I get that. It would be wrong of me to ask you to change it. I am still sorting out some things. Like you know how the fundy ideas of how you are just supposed to shut up and never feel anything contrary to the status quo. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it. I am trying to figure out what is important to state and what is not. Maybe I am just being judgmental about you and your avatar. However, it feels like it goes deeper than that. I am trying to respect my own perceptions in that if I find something offensive, to me it is, it doesn't matter how anyone else feels about it.

[pitchu]

I rather enjoy Vigile's avatar, probably because I enjoy almost anything that thumbs its nose at "sacred" by exulting in a little "profane."

 

As for those events in life which seem currently inexplicable, I'm more than content simply to call them currently inexplicable. In the course of my life I've found it detrimental to my happiness and soundness of mind to add layers of possible explanation to that which I can't explain... because then I have to explain to myself why I've chosen yet another inexplicable explanation to explain the first unexplainable phenomenon; and this involves questioning why I chose inexplicable explanation "A" over option "B" or "C" or.... well, you get the idea. It's a troublesome gambit for me.

[Ro-bear]

Here I go, agreeing with Pitchu again.