Falloutdude Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 As you all probably are tired of hearing of my fears, i'm sick and tired of worrying about them, very much so. I just wanted to talk about something i don't really understand, or that i do, but it just doesn't click Why would you want to go back, to Christianity? I'm asking this because more and more lately i'm thinking that i have to go back, for my sanity. Even if i really really don't want to, life isn't fair, and sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do. I don't really know what i believe right now, i know what i've been trying to hold onto, because it felt better. That is not believing, but now i'm just grasping at straws. I don't necessarily think i believe in the god of the bible, or even god at all, but i do know i'm tired of being scared. I'm tired of trying to reach for something that's not working, or that won't come I'm not saying i do believe, but at the same time I recognize (and have for awhile) that i've been trying to reclaim something i've lost, desperately clutching to what i wanted, the life i wanted again. When i really didn't believe, and i didn't have to worry about it anymore. I think what i fear more than anything, if i just said "fuck god if he is there" is the perpetual doubt that such a life would bring, or the possibility of converting again down the line or on my death bed. I'm not a good rebel, not at all, and i know this. At some level i am a coward. In that, i don't know if i could just say i rebel against god, especially if there was a chance he did "know better" I know more than anything i'm tired of being afraid, very few people on this site know what i'm talking about, those who do will understand what i'm saying, emotionally i mean. I guess sometimes, sometimes i just hope that if i give up what i want, and stop grasping so desperately, that maybe i will somehow find peace. I don't want to go back to christianity, but sometimes i think maybe i have no other choice, that i won't be able to get back what i lost, and that trying was futile and childish. I hope that's not true, but at some level i wonder. I mean, if i can't stop worrying over stupid little stories, what hope do i have? Not saying i don't but these are just my thoughts and fears It's just, i wanted that freedom to just try everything in life, accept that sometimes i make mistakes, but that it's not all bad. Mostly i just want to love someone completely, connect with them on the deepest of levels, make love to them and really be able to relax and love them, and try new things with them I don't think i've been this honest with myself in awhile. Mostly because i was afraid i would go back or at the very least i wouldn't go where i wanted to. Afraid at what i'd find. but now i'm starting to wonder if this is just one of those times when you have to accept what you don't want to, in order to survive. Anyways, whatever happens, i truly appreciate what the people of this forum have done for me, now i'm just wondering where i'm heading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted August 31, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2011 I have told you my dear friend dude, that I had to go back at least 3 more times to 3 different churches to finally 'let go'. I just sat back, tried to fit in, sang the songs, went to the bible studies, socialized, listened to the sermons and observed like I never observed in my life. It was part of my path. At the very end- I absolutely could not do communion. I couldn't 'drink the blood' or eat the 'flesh' anymore. I slipped away ever so quietly and now it's been over 2 years since I have even stepped inside a church. I personally (because of what you have been going through) suggested that you go back for awhile.You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Do it as an experiment. If NOTHING gets better when you ask jesus back, and the fears continue to linger - then you will know this fear goes beyond this issue and you can face it when and if you have to. you are my dear friend and you know I care. Best to you. Let us know what you decide. your friend, Margee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 I have told you my dear friend dude, that I had to go back at least 3 more times to 3 different churches to finally 'let go'. I just sat back, tried to fit in, sang the songs, went to the bible studies, socialized, listened to the sermons and observed like I never observed in my life. It was part of my path. At the very end- I absolutely could not do communion. I couldn't 'drink the blood' or eat the 'flesh' anymore. I slipped away ever so quietly and now it's been over 2 years since I have even stepped inside a church. I personally (because of what you have been going through) suggested that you go back for awhile.You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Do it as an experiment. If NOTHING gets better when you ask jesus back, and the fears continue to linger - then you will know this fear goes beyond this issue and you can face it when and if you have to. you are my dear friend and you know I care. Best to you. Let us know what you decide. your friend, Margee I understand there's just a few reasons why i have reservations about it. The only problem is, i'm too deeply entrenched in "sin" right now. If it doesn't work i'll just go back to, well maybe it's because i'm not fully dedicated. I was in the past, i don't know if i could survive another few years in the church....Maybe i got out too quick. I'm in too deep to come out again, all my friends are not christians, and i love them. I couldn't just leave them, not only that there's so much in this life i just want to do, i don't want to go back The thing is I do have a lot to lose, i've already been out for so long, it's not like i'm coming out and am still in between and can still try to be dedicated, i'd have to rearrange my whole life again. I'd have to get rid of everything i have that's considered "sinful" (basically everything i have), stop seeing my best friends who are "sinners" and in no way christian. Stop going to a secular college. Basically i'd have to start all over from scratch, i just feel like i am in too deep to experiment with it. I don't know, like i said maybe i skipped something, although i really didn't need it back then when i came out, maybe i need it now. I just feel like it's too much, i'd have to dedicate myself to god completely again to make sure i was really trying. I did this before though....i just worried about whether or not i was close with god....I mean i didn't try going to different churches, but i asked god to remove my depression and "it worked" for awhile. Although my anxiety caught up with me. I just...honestly i just don't want to take all that time and effort out of my life again. So i really don't understand what to do. I guess i could start my whole life over....just to experiment, but it seems like so much work, just to figure out something i have already learned a long time ago....I just feel like i should be able to do it without doing that. but maybe i can't...and i have to I don't necessarily believe, but at the same time i want to stop worrying, you know? So i really couldn't ask jesus into my heart even if i wanted to, i don't believe. Even if i did i know i couldn't love him, it would only be out of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 31, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2011 Either you believe Jesus actually exists, is the son of God and died for your sins, or you do not. Which is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Either you believe Jesus actually exists, is the son of God and died for your sins, or you do not. Which is it? Don't, but i'm not confident about that, i'm not confident about a lot of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostman42 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Submerge yourself in atheist literature, maybe reading books with valid and rational arguments against christianity will help you make up your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 31, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2011 Here's a crazy idea, but I'm getting desperate! Why not try going to the biggest, fanciest Catholic church you can find and immerse yourself in the ritual and pageantry. Most of the people there don't really believe it either, yet they seem to get something out of it. It's a good place to acknowledge Western religious roots without bothering much with theology. What do you have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Maybe you need to explore the concept of sin. Once I did I realised how stupid it is That was one of the main dominoes that needed to fal for me before all the rest did. When I had my last big stoush with the church I could see no other way out other than taking my own life. Upon good counselling and the decision to actually live instead of die, I realised I was obsessed with doing the right thing eg not "sinning". I had to deconstruct every thing I believed and what I decided was "good" and "bad" and challenge all those concepts within myself. It was the only way I could put my life back together and make it liveable. Sin is a silly concept. I am a straight person and I was born not wanting to be particularly feral in any way. I don't drink or do drugs or rip people off or be dishonest in my dealings. But I do like sex. Rather a lot If God is real and he decides to kick my ass for a biological drive he gave me, bad luck. That is not going to keep me locked in guilt and shame any longer. I am not a "sinner", there is no such thing. I am an ordinary human being with ordinary needs, and I refuse to be labelled as bad by god or anyone else for just being who I am. I would suggest mate that you learn how to stop judging youself for being human. It's silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 LostMan42 gave some good advice...read lots and lots of rational literature. The more you surround yourself with any particular concept, the more it becomes you. Christianity is by nature negative, hell-damning. Atheism is just the opposite...liberating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Here's a crazy idea, but I'm getting desperate! Why not try going to the biggest, fanciest Catholic church you can find and immerse yourself in the ritual and pageantry. Most of the people there don't really believe it either, yet they seem to get something out of it. It's a good place to acknowledge Western religious roots without bothering much with theology. What do you have to lose? Why are you getting desperate? You're not feeling scared...ha ha To be honest i hate christians, i'm very bitter, and that would probably show, although i'm not sure why you suggested going to a catholic church for the community since they're one of the more rigid/traditional religious groups O.o I just want to be able to study it without being afraid i'm wrong...i don't want to partake in it. Like i said i'm very bitter about christianity, to the point where i get very angry even thinking about talking to one I shouldn't have to do anything, i should be able to just live my life, go where that may. I just hate having to be physical and emotional pain 24/7 on top of self-doubt about christianity, it's fucking exhausting, and i just don't see how to get out Maybe you need to explore the concept of sin. Once I did I realised how stupid it is That was one of the main dominoes that needed to fal for me before all the rest did. When I had my last big stoush with the church I could see no other way out other than taking my own life. Upon good counselling and the decision to actually live instead of die, I realised I was obsessed with doing the right thing eg not "sinning". I had to deconstruct every thing I believed and what I decided was "good" and "bad" and challenge all those concepts within myself. It was the only way I could put my life back together and make it liveable. Sin is a silly concept. I am a straight person and I was born not wanting to be particularly feral in any way. I don't drink or do drugs or rip people off or be dishonest in my dealings. But I do like sex. Rather a lot If God is real and he decides to kick my ass for a biological drive he gave me, bad luck. That is not going to keep me locked in guilt and shame any longer. I am not a "sinner", there is no such thing. I am an ordinary human being with ordinary needs, and I refuse to be labelled as bad by god or anyone else for just being who I am. I would suggest mate that you learn how to stop judging youself for being human. It's silly. Well the thing is i'm not judging myself....it's more like i'm scared and analyzing constantly i don't necessarily really think what i do is good or bad intellectually, but on the other hand i'm scared of doing things "wrong" or being wrong about christianity because of anecdotes. I'm just so insecure about religion and christianity that I don't believe in myself enough to stop worrying about it. I don't feel like it's resolved, so i keep coming back to it, i don't feel ok to just forget about it. I want to be who i am, but i'm afraid of feeling bad or i worry i'll go back to christianity and i won't be able to be me anymore. I just emotionally am scared constantly that it might be true, when i try to move on i just think about that story from my previous post and how it feels "unresolved" and then i just stay stuck in that emotional state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Submerge yourself in atheist literature, maybe reading books with valid and rational arguments against christianity will help you make up your mind. Well it's not so much i haven't made up my mind is i'm extremely insecure, and i'm hung up on small things that keep me from moving on completely in order to build more confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBob Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Submerge yourself in atheist literature, maybe reading books with valid and rational arguments against christianity will help you make up your mind. Well it's not so much i haven't made up my mind is i'm extremely insecure, and i'm hung up on small things that keep me from moving on completely in order to build more confidence. It does seem to me that your issues are things like insecurity and lack of confidence and that the answer to this is therapy or counseling, not church, which can be a real source of shame, guilt, insecurity, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Submerge yourself in atheist literature, maybe reading books with valid and rational arguments against christianity will help you make up your mind. Well it's not so much i haven't made up my mind is i'm extremely insecure, and i'm hung up on small things that keep me from moving on completely in order to build more confidence. It does seem to me that your issues are things like insecurity and lack of confidence and that the answer to this is therapy or counseling, not church, which can be a real source of shame, guilt, insecurity, and so on. I agree. Fundies put it in your head that therapy and counseling is bad because it's not Christian, but that's really, really bad advice. Falloutdude, I know it's terrifying to make that leap. Having fear doesn't make you a coward though. You're already overcoming it by sharing your thoughts here. The man with guts is afraid too but goes on anyway, so keep up the good work! Say this, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leori Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Falloutdude: It sounds like all this fear and insecurity originally came from the church/Christianity. Would you agree with this? At first I would have suggested that you do go back to church if your life is utterly messed up without it, but the more I read (especially the parts where you say you hate Christians and cannot stand being around them), the more I agree with DesertBob and chosendarkness: actively seek out a good therapist/counselor, and not a Christian one. There may be people here on ex-c.net who can help, but I know I'm certainly not qualified. You do need someone qualified to help you through your fears and insecurities, and it would be a good idea to do this in person (hence the suggestion that you find a good counselor who can help you through things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falloutdude Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 I wish i could get a counselor again, but it appears that I'm not fucked up enough to get assistance for that...without assistance i can't afford to get one...I guess they're making so many cuts in the state and mental health is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I wish i could get a counselor again, but it appears that I'm not fucked up enough to get assistance for that...without assistance i can't afford to get one...I guess they're making so many cuts in the state and mental health is one of them. There are usually places that have therapists still training and are observed by a licensed one -- that are very cheap. It's better than nothing, especially if they're training to treat problems similar to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 fallout dude i know how you feel but maby not as intense i haft to deal with it every day. that nagging feeling in the back of my head that tells me 'its not worth it", "go back you will feel better" "you are doomed to a life of conflict". i dont know how much i can tell you or how to deal with this as it seems your life has been ravaged by the fires of their religion and somtimes i feel like my life has been too. it seems so easy to go back but dont limit your options so much, dont look at christianity as the only option for truth look at it as a posibility and look at the infinante posibility in reality as just as posible. christinanity is not the only option in reality becuase you define your own options no one idea is more true than the others. the origional idea of religion itsself is to fill the void of the unknown with the absolute. its a man mad thing in order to qualm a man made fear. religion is a colective inturpretation of reality with every one being difrent with every one having difrent influences in life. the idea of god is subjective and open to inturpetation. christianity will be correct if you decide it to be correct. but you must also rember that atheism or anything else can be correct if you decide it to be correct. question is what do you decide to be correct? its up to you, i choose my ability to do good in the world and define my self. but what ever you choose dont live in hate with your choice as it will only harm you and the world around you, its no way to live.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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