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Forgeries In The Babble


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I know there are literally hundreds of contradictions in the Babble, but I just discovered this one. We all know David killed Goliath, right? The story is in 1 Saumel. However 2 Samuel 21:19 writes this:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

Of course the English versions had to cheat and insert "brother of" in front of Goliath to mask the contradiction. So in the New International Version the quote is actually:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

But in my Hungarian Bible there is no "brother of". And in fact there wasn't in the original Hebrew either! See: http://www.biblegate...:19&version=NIV

 

The note says: "2 Samuel 21:19 See 1 Chron. 20:5; Hebrew does not have the brother of."

 

Oops!

 

 

 

Why do Christians have to lie and forge so much? But even with their lots of forgeries the Babble remains the big book of big contradictions! The holy, inerrant word of God. LOL. Laughable.

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Why do Christians have to lie and forge so much?

Because deep down they know subconsciously that it is a grand lie. It's just a continuation of the behavior. Christianity is a system in learning how to lie to oneself.

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Obviously, the original Hebrew writers weren't inspired by the holy spirit. So when Christians came along with the guidance of the HS, they had to make repairs and corrections.

 

 

Makes sense. Did they use scotch or just plain wine?

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Obviously, the original Hebrew writers weren't inspired by the holy spirit. So when Christians came along with the guidance of the HS, they had to make repairs and corrections.

 

 

Makes sense. Did they use scotch or just plain wine?

 

I would think Scotch for the following reason:

 

Single Malts are the most natural of Spirits formed, more than any other, by their environment. For that same reason, they are the most individualistic. No other Spirit offers such diversity of character nor epitomizes the distiller's art, more than Single Malts.

 

onrocks2.gif

 

http://www.tasteoftx.com/spirits/scotch.html

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I know there are literally hundreds of contradictions in the Babble, but I just discovered this one. We all know David killed Goliath, right? The story is in 1 Saumel. However 2 Samuel 21:19 writes this:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

Of course the English versions had to cheat and insert "brother of" in front of Goliath to mask the contradiction. So in the New International Version the quote is actually:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

But in my Hungarian Bible there is no "brother of". And in fact there wasn't in the original Hebrew either! See: http://www.biblegate...:19&version=NIV

 

The note says: "2 Samuel 21:19 See 1 Chron. 20:5; Hebrew does not have the brother of."

 

Oops!

 

 

 

Why do Christians have to lie and forge so much? But even with their lots of forgeries the Babble remains the big book of big contradictions! The holy, inerrant word of God. LOL. Laughable.

 

This is actually a really good one. Well done for spotting yet another contradiction. The worst one in my opinion is the death of Judas.

 

Matthew 27 - Judas is overcome with remorse after betraying Jesus, throws the pieces of silver in the Temple and then goes and hangs himself.

Acts of the Apostles 1 it states that Judas buys a field (with his pieces of silver?) and then "falls headlong down a hill and his guts split open," or words to that effect.

You should hear apologists' intellectual dishonesty defending this garbage!

 

The 4 versions of the Resurrection are also a mess and would be thrown out in any court of law as a claim of evidence.

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I know there are literally hundreds of contradictions in the Babble, but I just discovered this one. We all know David killed Goliath, right? The story is in 1 Saumel. However 2 Samuel 21:19 writes this:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

Of course the English versions had to cheat and insert "brother of" in front of Goliath to mask the contradiction. So in the New International Version the quote is actually:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

But in my Hungarian Bible there is no "brother of". And in fact there wasn't in the original Hebrew either! See: http://www.biblegate...:19&version=NIV

 

The note says: "2 Samuel 21:19 See 1 Chron. 20:5; Hebrew does not have the brother of."

 

Oops!

 

 

 

Why do Christians have to lie and forge so much? But even with their lots of forgeries the Babble remains the big book of big contradictions! The holy, inerrant word of God. LOL. Laughable.

 

This is actually a really good one. Well done for spotting yet another contradiction. The worst one in my opinion is the death of Judas.

 

Matthew 27 - Judas is overcome with remorse after betraying Jesus, throws the pieces of silver in the Temple and then goes and hangs himself.

Acts of the Apostles 1 it states that Judas buys a field (with his pieces of silver?) and then "falls headlong down a hill and his guts split open," or words to that effect.

You should hear apologists' intellectual dishonesty defending this garbage!

 

The 4 versions of the Resurrection are also a mess and would be thrown out in any court of law as a claim of evidence.

 

I thought this was all resolved in the documentary of, Dracula 2000.

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most christians have the idea that their bbile has allways been the same and this simply isnt so. most apologist simply cant understand their bible is wrong becuase they would lose their sense of security like any other christian. its like a mind trap mechanism that keeps them in line... poor guys.

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In Jerusalem, scholars trace Bible's evolution By MATTI FRIEDMAN - Associated Press | AP – Fri, Aug 12, 2011

 

JERUSALEM (AP) — A dull-looking chart projected on the wall of a university office in Jerusalem displayed a revelation that would startle many readers of the Old Testament: the sacred text that people revered in the past was not the same one we study today.

 

An ancient version of one book has an extra phrase. Another appears to have been revised to retroactively insert a prophecy after the events happened.

 

Scholars in this out-of-the-way corner of the Hebrew University campus have been quietly at work for 53 years on one of the most ambitious projects attempted in biblical studies — publishing the authoritative edition of the Old Testament, also known as the Hebrew Bible, and tracking every single evolution of the text over centuries and millennia.

 

And it has evolved, despite deeply held beliefs to the contrary.

 

For many Jews and Christians, religion dictates that the words of the Bible in the original Hebrew are divine, unaltered and unalterable. For Orthodox Jews, the accuracy is considered so inviolable that if a synagogue's Torah scroll is found to have a minute error in a single letter, the entire scroll is unusable.

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First, that piece of information is not important at all. Second, in order to witness the situation, humans don't need to be perfect as long as they wrote honestly. The Bible is accurate to the effect that the case stands in court. Are all the witnessing in court are consistently accurate, not necessary. Are they honestly presented, a yes is demanded. Does this mean that the Bible is not accurate? No, it is as accurate as that the witnessing were submitted honestly to their best accuracy achievable by humans at that time. Even in today's world, CNN and Fox news may report different death tolls in, say, Iraq war. They both may be wrong about a certain number but that won't give them discredit as long as they did their best in researching and reported honestly. That's what humans can do. And as an honest witnessing capable of a court case, the variance is totally acceptable. In the end, this is just a matter of perspective. On the other hand, if both CNN and Fox News always report the same exact number in, say, humans wars like World War II, one of them (or both of them) is a fraud.

 

More importantly, the main purpose of the Bible is to filter out those lacking in faith. Say, someone who read the variance then draw the conclusion (due to the lack of faith and the lack of intelligence) that the Bible is not saying the truth, they are filtered out. To simply put, another purpose that the Bible was written that way because those who are not His sheep will be filtered out, and the most tricky part is that the filtering is done not on an intellectual basis but on a faith basis. That is, you are filtered out not because you are stupid or you are clever, you are filtered out purely because you lack faith disregarding whether you are clever or stupid in terms of intelligence. So the design of the Bible is perfect!

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As much as I would like to agree that this is a contradiction of the story of David and Goliath, it isn't. Yes, there is additions to the text claiming a brother of Goliath was slain, in English translations some words and phrases are added to make the sentence more readable--to carry the thought expressed by the writer so that it flows for English readers, but in reading from the 17th Chapter of Samuel 2, there were four brothers who were slain by different people in different battles with the Philistines. This IS found in the Hebrew text.

 

2Sa 21:15-22 Moreover the Philistines had yet war again with Israel; and David went down, and his servants with him, and fought against the Philistines: and David waxed faint. (16) And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David. (17) But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David sware unto him, saying, Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the light of Israel. (18) And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant. (19) And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. (20) And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. (21) And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him. (22) These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

 

There were several battles with the Philistines and David and his servants slew these four giants who were born to the giant in Gath. David's servants slew the other giants because David had become weak from fighting the Philistines. In this case, the added words to the Hebrew text is not a contradiction of the story of David killing Goliath.

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First, that piece of information is not important at all. Second, in order to witness the situation, humans don't need to be perfect as long as they wrote honestly. The Bible is accurate to the effect that the case stands in court. Are all the witnessing in court are consistently accurate, not necessary. Are they honestly presented, a yes is demanded. Does this mean that the Bible is not accurate? No, it is as accurate as that the witnessing were submitted honestly to their best accuracy achievable by humans at that time. Even in today's world, CNN and Fox news may report different death tolls in, say, Iraq war. They both may be wrong about a certain number but that won't give them discredit as long as they did their best in researching and reported honestly. That's what humans can do. And as an honest witnessing capable of a court case, the variance is totally acceptable. In the end, this is just a matter of perspective. On the other hand, if both CNN and Fox News always report the same exact number in, say, humans wars like World War II, one of them (or both of them) is a fraud.

 

More importantly, the main purpose of the Bible is to filter out those lacking in faith. Say, someone who read the variance then draw the conclusion (due to the lack of faith and the lack of intelligence) that the Bible is not saying the truth, they are filtered out. To simply put, another purpose that the Bible was written that way because those who are not His sheep will be filtered out, and the most tricky part is that the filtering is done not on an intellectual basis but on a faith basis. That is, you are filtered out not because you are stupid or you are clever, you are filtered out purely because you lack faith disregarding whether you are clever or stupid in terms of intelligence. So the design of the Bible is perfect!

 

Shit, you don't read your own babble. Preach to someone else.

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Sorry, Suzy: The battle with David and Goliath is found in 1 Samuel:

1Sa 17:48-51 And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came and drew nigh to meet David, that David hasted, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. (49) And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. (50) So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. (51) Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.

 

Different battle.

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More importantly, the main purpose of the Bible is to filter out those lacking in faith. Say, someone who read the variance then draw the conclusion (due to the lack of faith and the lack of intelligence) that the Bible is not saying the truth, they are filtered out. To simply put, another purpose that the Bible was written that way because those who are not His sheep will be filtered out, and the most tricky part is that the filtering is done not on an intellectual basis but on a faith basis. That is, you are filtered out not because you are stupid or you are clever, you are filtered out purely because you lack faith disregarding whether you are clever or stupid in terms of intelligence. So the design of the Bible is perfect!

 

So your God hates logically thinking, intelligent, clever people and wants them to fail deliberately? Is that your point?

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First, that piece of information is not important at all. Second, in order to witness the situation, humans don't need to be perfect as long as they wrote honestly. The Bible is accurate to the effect that the case stands in court. Are all the witnessing in court are consistently accurate, not necessary. Are they honestly presented, a yes is demanded. Does this mean that the Bible is not accurate? No, it is as accurate as that the witnessing were submitted honestly to their best accuracy achievable by humans at that time. Even in today's world, CNN and Fox news may report different death tolls in, say, Iraq war. They both may be wrong about a certain number but that won't give them discredit as long as they did their best in researching and reported honestly. That's what humans can do. And as an honest witnessing capable of a court case, the variance is totally acceptable. In the end, this is just a matter of perspective. On the other hand, if both CNN and Fox News always report the same exact number in, say, humans wars like World War II, one of them (or both of them) is a fraud.

 

More importantly, the main purpose of the Bible is to filter out those lacking in faith. Say, someone who read the variance then draw the conclusion (due to the lack of faith and the lack of intelligence) that the Bible is not saying the truth, they are filtered out. To simply put, another purpose that the Bible was written that way because those who are not His sheep will be filtered out, and the most tricky part is that the filtering is done not on an intellectual basis but on a faith basis. That is, you are filtered out not because you are stupid or you are clever, you are filtered out purely because you lack faith disregarding whether you are clever or stupid in terms of intelligence. So the design of the Bible is perfect!

 

This begs the question "Did God look after his book or not?" What about other contradictions/ inconsistencies in the Bible that have been highlighted on this forum, such as the 2 accounts of the death of Judas & the 4 accounts of the resurrection?

 

With your last paragraph you are painting a picture of faith as being a virtue. I don't see how it is anything other than gullibility. Why is it that for everything in our everyday lives we depend on reasoned evidence-based analysis and yet for the most important question of them all - what is the true meaning of life? - we are supposed to abandon that in favour of faith in spite of the evidence?

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If you're willing to accept that inaccuracies show better research and identical results indicate fraud then why not accept that faith is superior to reason?

 

mwc

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First, that piece of information is not important at all. Second, in order to witness the situation, humans don't need to be perfect as long as they wrote honestly. The Bible is accurate to the effect that the case stands in court. Are all the witnessing in court are consistently accurate, not necessary. Are they honestly presented, a yes is demanded. Does this mean that the Bible is not accurate? No, it is as accurate as that the witnessing were submitted honestly to their best accuracy achievable by humans at that time. Even in today's world, CNN and Fox news may report different death tolls in, say, Iraq war. They both may be wrong about a certain number but that won't give them discredit as long as they did their best in researching and reported honestly. That's what humans can do. And as an honest witnessing capable of a court case, the variance is totally acceptable. In the end, this is just a matter of perspective. On the other hand, if both CNN and Fox News always report the same exact number in, say, humans wars like World War II, one of them (or both of them) is a fraud.

 

More importantly, the main purpose of the Bible is to filter out those lacking in faith. Say, someone who read the variance then draw the conclusion (due to the lack of faith and the lack of intelligence) that the Bible is not saying the truth, they are filtered out. To simply put, another purpose that the Bible was written that way because those who are not His sheep will be filtered out, and the most tricky part is that the filtering is done not on an intellectual basis but on a faith basis. That is, you are filtered out not because you are stupid or you are clever, you are filtered out purely because you lack faith disregarding whether you are clever or stupid in terms of intelligence. So the design of the Bible is perfect!

 

So, in other words, you're admitting that the Bible is NOT inspired by God?

 

And, regarding faith, your argument is no better than a Muslim saying that we just have to have faith in the Koran even if we spot problems in it. If you would not accept that argument from a Muslim, then you should be able to see that it is an extremely flawed rationalization, and therefore you should stop using it as a supposed defense of the Bible.

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The worst one in my opinion is the death of Judas.

 

Matthew 27 - Judas is overcome with remorse after betraying Jesus, throws the pieces of silver in the Temple and then goes and hangs himself.

Acts of the Apostles 1 it states that Judas buys a field (with his pieces of silver?) and then "falls headlong down a hill and his guts split open," or words to that effect.

You should hear apologists' intellectual dishonesty defending this garbage!

 

In the very few verses about Judas' death, there are three contradictions, yet most who are aware of the fact that these are contradictory accounts seem to miss one of them. The two that are well known (and which apologists try to reconcile with manipulations) are the discrepancies of who bought the field and how Judas actually died. The third (and usually overlooked) contradiction is a discrepancy regarding the reason why the field was called "Field of Blood."

 

The 4 versions of the Resurrection are also a mess and would be thrown out in any court of law as a claim of evidence.

 

I would argue that these are actually worse contradictions than the ones regarding Judas, since there are so many discrepancies and they make for such a ridiculously jumbled mess!

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I know there are literally hundreds of contradictions in the Babble, but I just discovered this one. We all know David killed Goliath, right? The story is in 1 Saumel. However 2 Samuel 21:19 writes this:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

Of course the English versions had to cheat and insert "brother of" in front of Goliath to mask the contradiction. So in the New International Version the quote is actually:

 

In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jair[a] the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod.

 

But in my Hungarian Bible there is no "brother of". And in fact there wasn't in the original Hebrew either! See: http://www.biblegate...:19&version=NIV

 

The note says: "2 Samuel 21:19 See 1 Chron. 20:5; Hebrew does not have the brother of."

 

Oops!

 

 

 

Why do Christians have to lie and forge so much? But even with their lots of forgeries the Babble remains the big book of big contradictions! The holy, inerrant word of God. LOL. Laughable.

 

The NIV is notorious for altering texts in order to try to smooth over contradictions or other problems. Unfortunately, even with the revisionism in modern versions like the NIV, there are still enormous problems. There's just no way to delete all the problems, no matter how much editing and modifying they do.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

You're logic might work, were it supposed to be "the word of people" and not "the word of the all-knowing god". You're arguement is therefore invalid, as you'd either have to say that the Bible isn't the Word of God, or that the Bible contradicts itself/God lies.

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More importantly, the main purpose of the Bible is to filter out those lacking in faith. Say, someone who read the variance then draw the conclusion (due to the lack of faith and the lack of intelligence) that the Bible is not saying the truth, they are filtered out. To simply put, another purpose that the Bible was written that way because those who are not His sheep will be filtered out, and the most tricky part is that the filtering is done not on an intellectual basis but on a faith basis. That is, you are filtered out not because you are stupid or you are clever, you are filtered out purely because you lack faith disregarding whether you are clever or stupid in terms of intelligence. So the design of the Bible is perfect!

 

So your God hates logically thinking, intelligent, clever people and wants them to fail deliberately? Is that your point?

 

Excellent point, Suzy.

 

Hawkins engages in typical backward reasoning. He begins with his conclusion and then reasons backwards to justify it, as follows:

 

Conclusion: God is perfect and so are his words as expressed in the bible.

 

Backward reasoning: There are some problematic verses in the bible, but because god is perfect and so is the bible, there must be a reason for the problematic verses. Okay, I've got it. He intentionally inserted the problems as a way to filter out the faithless.

 

Problem with this reasoning: If god is perfect and, therefore, all knowing, he would not need to set any traps. He could see through any person's false declaration of faith no matter what they say. He would not need any traps at all.

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Hawkins engages in typical backward reasoning. He begins with his conclusion and then reasons backwards to justify it, as follows:

 

Conclusion: God is perfect and so are his words as expressed in the bible.

 

Backward reasoning: There are some problematic verses in the bible, but because god is perfect and so is the bible, there must be a reason for the problematic verses. Okay, I've got it. He intentionally inserted the problems as a way to filter out the faithless.

 

Problem with this reasoning: If god is perfect and, therefore, all knowing, he would not need to set any traps. He could see through any person's false declaration of faith no matter what they say. He would not need any traps at all.

 

Excellent point!

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