Is This Just Wishful Thinking?

[DesertBob]

"The person absorbed in this mode of seeing is no longer an individual - the individual has lost himself in the perception - but is a pure, will-less, painless, timeless, Subject of Apprehension".

LOL. It is ironic, is it not, that one who apprehends -- has apprehension -- is also said to be apprehensive. I am certainly that. Life makes me very apprehensive, the more clearly I apprehend it. I have learned to be careful what I ask for, because to see clearly is often a burden.

 

Have a great day at work. I too am late ... fortunately I am two hours ahead of my clients.

[Yask]

I arrived at the conclusion quite some time ago, that revering any religions ideology related to creator and cause for my existence is simply paying homage to someone else's imaginary friend. As a consequence I arrived at my own understanding of what I can live with day to day.

 

I don't need an immoral myth to encourage me to morality under it's standards. That's redundant and illogical. How can someone arrive at a moral platform by accessing the immoral examples of the Judeo-Christian mythology as a guideline?!

 

So, I think if someone finds comfort or solace in worshiping something that they envision as that what keeps their life in line, they are best served by having a relationship with themselves. Taking a long hard look at who I am, warts and all, embracing the cactus as it's called, embracing the great and the not so great about who I am and realizing I have to live with her all the days of my life as I go forth into the world and interact with others who are doing the same thing, is my ritual.

 

I am a good person. I am compassionate, empathetic, charitable. I've made mistakes, I have the capacity to be a royal bitch and enjoy it at times. I have the tendency to play the victim because I was raised in a family where that was an emotion that came naturally. I know who I am right now and I'm learning more every day of my life as I face the challenges of surviving one more day, which is much different than living day to day.

 

And through it all I know that this life is all about me. Because it is me first who lives the experience, revels in the joys, suffers the bad decisions and the pains. And in the end, everything I experience, all that I survive makes me stronger than I was before. You get what you give, as I see it. I don't believe in Karma. I believe Karma happens now, not in some afterlife as a punishment or reward for doing bad or well in a former life. Because if I accepted that mythology of after life Karma, I gotta wonder how badly I'd have to fuck up in this life to come back as a tick.

 

I think a lot of former Christians have a difficult time letting go of the icons and the fabled fathers of the old faith because it was so easy to live, while thinking something else has your back. It was so easy to go through life, while holding faith you're not really standing on your own. Because then when someone accepts the heavenly hosts as real enough, they by proxy accept the antithesis of them. So that anything that's bad that happens, or that one does, isn't fully one's responsibility but that of the adversary to one's personal right-ness (righteousness). The devil. "The Devil made me do it!" (Yeah? But he's not the one facing a jail sentence is he!?)

 

I think when we come to a point where faith, the fable, no longer feels right that we're on our way to coming out of that shell of irresponsibility. Where we're about to embark on a realization that it's all about us. What we do is what we're responsible for by choice. We reap the reward, we suffer the consequence. It makes me stronger to know I can create my life by my decisions and working to attain my highest aspirations because I love me and know I'm worth it. That in itself is a great evolutionary step away from the former self-deprecating myth that was implanted as a family tradition.

 

Do you believe in god?

 

Yes I do, because I have a mirror.

[DesertBob]

And through it all I know that this life is all about me. Because it is me first who lives the experience, revels in the joys, suffers the bad decisions and the pains.

The philosophical question regarding this, is, "who is 'me'?" Like you, I've largely lost patience with such questions, though. I feel that even Buddhism, which in its pure form is the only thing even vaguely resembling religion that I can still stomach, wants me to apologize for caring about personal outcomes or for being reluctant to abandon my desires or wants to chide me for allowing such base, unworthy things to define "me".

 

And in the end, everything I experience, all that I survive makes me stronger than I was before. You get what you give, as I see it.

Here, however, is where I have to part company with you. This is, I think, a remnant of your religious past you haven't quite shed. Many things I have experienced have made me stronger, or at least wiser, but many of them have diminished me, too. I'm not the man I used to be, and I don't see how I ever will be again. I can no longer sustain the illusion that outcomes are purely a product of one's efforts. That is to reach beyond the scope of my actual powers.

 

As social beings we inherently need other people, but in the main, other people are limited (which in many cases is a nice way of saying that they suck). As such, we live in the undertow of other people's drama and misperceptions to a degree that has more to do with luck than with skill. Like a bright child in a classroom full of dolts, we can't progress through our life experience as rapidly as we could wish because we have to wait for everyone else to catch on, and even for those who are our equals or our betters, there is always the chance to be misunderstood or to talk past each other. Dealing with all this in ways that aren't self-defeating takes tremendous time and energy and patience.

I think when we come to a point where faith, the fable, no longer feels right that we're on our way to coming out of that shell of irresponsibility. Where we're about to embark on a realization that it's all about us. What we do is what we're responsible for by choice. We reap the reward, we suffer the consequence. It makes me stronger to know I can create my life by my decisions and working to attain my highest aspirations because I love me and know I'm worth it. That in itself is a great evolutionary step away from the former self-deprecating myth that was implanted as a family tradition.

You are correct that taking personal responsibility is something religion helps people to avoid, but it's also useful to ask, why did that evolve? Maybe it's because we frequently are obliged to accept responsibility yet don't have sufficient authority or resources to carry it out, or find that others work at cross-purposes to us. I'm currently embroiled in a time-wasting situation with my work where I can't just be left alone to do my damn job and I can't simply assume that people are communicating clearly about constraints, etc., so I have to track down various people and finesse this and that rather than actually get my work done. This is a great metaphor for much of my daily life. Some version of "Trusting God to be in control and work it out" is just a way for people to deal with this chaotic nonsense. I no longer think it's effective, but I understand the appeal and at times miss the faux comfort.

[DT761138]

Maybe wishful thinking isn't the best term because I can't even say for certain whether the afterlife is something to be desired or not, but sometimes when I ponder the big question, you know "pick the right god and right way to worship it, your eternal soul depends on it" I wonder if maybe it's just one big test.

 

That's your Evangelical/Judeo-Christian background talking. Worship? Many religions aren't about worship in the Christian sense. Like in Pure Land Buddhism, the Buddha or Buddhas are venerated but he's not going to send you to hell if you don't do so. People venerate the Buddha because being a Buddha is, in Mahayana Buddhism, our true nature. And some sects of Pure Land see the Buddha embracing all beings in compassion, whether they accept him or not. So why be mindful of the Buddha (worship the Buddha) if he embraces us in the end? Because being mindful of the Buddha and his compassion leads to peace and joy now. It's a very different attitude from many forms of Christianity.