willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I been reading a lot of topics and Christians still claim god is all-loving and gives us freedom of choice blah. How’s this all loving: First point god knows all sees all right. He knows past present and future. Remember that point threw out this discussion. God creates Adam and eve knowing they would someday eat the fruit of the forbidden tree. Besides the fact he puts the tree their in the first place and lets a talking serpent come in it. Remember my first point. Now humanities damned for all eternity we get the blame for what Adam and eve did and god knew the whole thing would happen he created the world so you could say god made it all happen. Then besides just forgiving, us he sends his son too die on the cross He sends his son to die on the cross for forgiveness of sins? Therefore, god cannot forgive someone unless someone dies a cruel death. Would you have too crucify your kid too forgive someone? In addition, god makes people he knows will sin and reject him and throws them into hell. Do not say Satan deceived them and they chose too follow him. It’s not Satans fault god made him evil. Satans just a pawn in bible gods sick little game. Go back and read my first point. God knew all this would happen. If god don’t want people so evil or that’d choose evil hed have too throw them in hell then he shouldn’t make them. This is not a loving father! If you seen on the news a father crucified his son to forgive the world or threw him in a furnace cause he was evil would you call that an all loving father Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 You're absolutely right WB30. This point has been brought up before, and it's always good to bring it up again. I find it really cool that everyone that leaves Christianity realize this, while the Christian can't see this but try to make excuses and apologies for why God do this or that and that he's not evil etc etc. It seems like you have to leave God to see the truth. The whole religion thing only clouds the mind and makes the people slaves under the lies of theological bullshit. And you made a really smart and insightful remark there, why would God have to sacrifice anyone so he could forgive the world? He can do anything he want, and he is supposed to be all-good, so why just not... forgive? Why have to go through hoops and wear green slippers on Sundays to get to business, he could have just said "I forgive you Adam", and it would have been end of the sinful story. Why couldn't the all powerful and all loving God say, "it's okay, you made a mistake and I'll take your sins away", instead of punishing and tormenting people for thousands of years, and create a religion that made it even worse, and for the benefit of only saving a handful of people in the end. It's all totally ridiculous and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Yea when you leave Christianity, you start to see its true colors. It seems like bible god creates sinners just to throw in hell it is cruel. Seems like humans are more forgiving than bible god I never been told by a person They were going to burn me for doing something wrong. Seems like the more I think the more stupid the bible gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Seems like the more I think the more stupid the bible gets. 102310[/snapback] Very true. And the less you think, the more sense the Bible gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofia Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I have a simple question: Where in the Bible does it say that God is all loving or all merciful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyFeline Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I never been told by a person They were going to burn me for doing something wrong. The only people who've ever threatened to kill me have been deranged, abusive, and mentally unstable. Wonder what that says about God, eh? Though I know exactly how the Bible-humpers will try to spin this. The tree was a test for Adam and Eve. And all those people that God butchered or ordered slaughtered? Well, they were evil! They did evil, wicked horrible things like gay sex and child sacrifice! All those babies would have grown up to be wicked, wicked sinners, anyway, but since they were killed before that could happen, they're safe in Heaven with GOD! As for stoning rape victims to death or forcing them to marry their attackers, or kidnapping and raping female prisoners of war... Well, you just don't UNDERSTAND how things WERE back then! If you took the time to look into their culture, you'd UNDERSTAND! You'd SEE why they HAD to butcher and traumatize young women and children! You're just ignorant of the culture back then, that's why you think it's so horrible! God NEVER does anything that isn't just. Ever! Who are we to question what HE does, and HIS motives for doing those things?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I have a simple question: Where in the Bible does it say that God is all loving or all merciful? 102312[/snapback] Luk 6:35-36 KJVA But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. (36) Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. God is kind and merciful even to the evil and unthankful. Joh 3:16 KJVA For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. God love the world, before he gave the "salvation", i.e. the sinful world. Rom 5:8 KJVA But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. God love even the sinner. 2Co 13:11 KJVA Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. God is the God of love and peace. Gal 5:22 KJVA But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, God is spirit, his fruits are love, not hate, not anger, not war, not stubbornness or obnoxiousness... Eph 2:4 KJVA But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, God is rich in mercy and love. 1Jo 4:16 KJVA And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. And so on... The Bible clearly want us to believe God is full of love, that he is the definition of love and mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 The concept of an omni-whatever god is not really a Christian one, but one that comes from greek philosophy, if I am not mistaken. The church took it up as official doctrine, but you are right sophia... I don't see "literal" support for it in the Bible either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Good points, WB. It's been brought up here before, but it's good that you are starting to think of things like that. It's a sign that the mind virus is being killed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofia Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 The Bible clearly want us to believe God is full of love, that he is the definition of love and mercy. 102316[/snapback] Absolutely. But not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofia Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 The concept of an omni-whatever god is not really a Christian one, but one that comes from greek philosophy, if I am not mistaken. The church took it up as official doctrine, but you are right sophia... I don't see "literal" support for it in the Bible either. 102320[/snapback] Thank you, Pandora. All loving and all merciful is from the Quran, not the Bible. The Islamic god.....all loving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 The Bible clearly want us to believe God is full of love, that he is the definition of love and mercy. 102316[/snapback] Absolutely. But not always. 102341[/snapback] How so? Who doesn't he love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sofia Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I was just clarifying that biblical scripture does not say "all". edit** Hmm.....now that I think about it the Quran may word it "most" merciful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 I was just clarifying that biblical scripture does not say "all". edit** Hmm.....now that I think about it the Quran may word it "most" merciful. 102354[/snapback] I believe Sofia makes a good point. I can't find even ONE reference to "god" being ALL-merciful, nor ALL-loving. Once there was an "abundant in lovingkindness" notation in Jonah, but that's it. Everything about "god" is conditional. You kiss his ass, and he won't burn you in "hell". So, as usual, this OMNI love/mercy characteristic has been invented by Christians. Gee, what a surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 ..........How so? Who doesn't he love? 102350[/snapback] SINNERS! Who else? The "Lord" is angry with the "wicked" everyday. Doesn't sound too "loving" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 I would like too see how they get around my point that god created them that way If he knows everything then he created people who sin just too punish them. Winch is stupid I mean if you make someone who sins its dumb too punish them for it Though I know exactly how the Bible-humpers will try to spin this. The tree was a test for Adam and Eve. And all those people that God butchered or ordered slaughtered? Well, they were evil! They did evil, wicked horrible things like gay sex and child sacrifice! All those babies would have grown up to be wicked, wicked sinners, anyway, but since they were killed before that could happen, they're safe in Heaven with GOD! As for stoning rape victims to death or forcing them to marry their attackers, or kidnapping and raping female prisoners of war... Well, you just don't UNDERSTAND how things WERE back then! If you took the time to look into their culture, you'd UNDERSTAND! You'd SEE why they HAD to butcher and traumatize young women and children! You're just ignorant of the culture back then, that's why you think it's so horrible! God NEVER does anything that isn't just. Ever! Who are we to question what HE does, and HIS motives for doing those things?? 102313[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 He is so kind too the evil people he created he throws them into hell That is kindness. [ Luk 6:35-36 KJVA But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. (36) Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. God is kind and merciful even to the evil and unthankful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Im glad too know im being cured but it's good that you are starting to think of things like that. It's a sign that the mind virus is being killed off. 102339[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 How so? Who doesn't he love? 102350[/snapback] Homosexuals? Two whole cities burned down to the ground with a rain of fire. Wow. Oh, and people eating crab or shrimps too, that's an abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 ..........How so? Who doesn't he love? 102350[/snapback] SINNERS! Who else? The "Lord" is angry with the "wicked" everyday. Doesn't sound too "loving" to me. 102360[/snapback] Nope. See the quote from Romans. Even the sinners, and it says the "world", and refering to the world before the "salvation", which means sinners aswell as non-sinners. And Romans say everyone are sinners. And it doesn't say that God doesn't love someone. From this you can conclude that the scriptures inderectly means "all". (Hey, I'm making the Christians arguments here... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 He loves everyone. Because true love is throwing someone that does not do as you say in a fiery furnace. He loved us so much he sent his son too die in agony on a cross for us. [quote name=HanSolo' date='Nov 5 2005, 11:34 Nope. See the quote from Romans. Even the sinners, and it says the "world", and refering to the world before the "salvation", which means sinners aswell as non-sinners. And Romans say everyone are sinners. And it doesn't say that God doesn't love someone. From this you can conclude that the scriptures inderectly means "all". (Hey, I'm making the Christians arguments here... ) 102369[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Im confused how can god love someone and send them too hell? Can a person torture someone they love? I know I could not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Oh, and people eating crab or shrimps too, that's an abomination. 102367[/snapback] There's a good reason to deconvert right there - what kind of stupid, fucked-up god considers eating crab an abomination? Jesus, does he hate chocolate too? Dummy up, Yahweh - I'm going to dive into this shrimp platter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Oh, and people eating crab or shrimps too, that's an abomination. 102367[/snapback] There's a good reason to deconvert right there - what kind of stupid, fucked-up god considers eating crab an abomination? Jesus, does he hate chocolate too? Dummy up, Yahweh - I'm going to dive into this shrimp platter. 102384[/snapback] Why did He create such abominations in the first place? So, basically, according to the OT, anyone who eats crab or shrimp should have NOTHING to say about homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 He creates seafood then creates people who like seafood then say you can’t eat it? He creates homosexuals then tells them not too be homosexual? Then he throws the homosexuals and seafood eaters in hell. If I was god I would not create people that would do stuff that would make me so mad id throw them in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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