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Goodbye Jesus

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Roxie

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My late wife was for a time abused by the "shepherding" movement -- I believe this was in the late 70's.

 

My church fellowship was influenced by the discipleship movement as well - and they still maintain some of the teachings. They have this whole "headship" trip, where you're accountable to your pastor, and he is accountable to his pastor. There is this rigid control over members, where they are pressured to never leave their church since their church is "right", and you're just being deceived if you want to go elsewhere. Members can't even go to another church within the same fellowship without their pastor's "blessing".

 

Getting back to the pastors and money issue - Many evangelicals truly believe God will bless people when they "tithe". So the reason they pressure their congregation to tithe is because they want them to be blessed (and if they don't tithe, they're cursed). It's interesting though, when some pastors from my old fellowship were confronted with the information that tithing is not actually for christians, they tend to turn a blind eye. They try to justify why christians should still tithe, but they only put a half-hearted effort into researching the subject - because it would be too great a financial risk.

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My church fellowship was influenced by the discipleship movement as well - and they still maintain some of the teachings. They have this whole "headship" trip, where you're accountable to your pastor, and he is accountable to his pastor. There is this rigid control over members, where they are pressured to never leave their church since their church is "right", and you're just being deceived if you want to go elsewhere. Members can't even go to another church within the same fellowship without their pastor's "blessing".

 

 

 

Interesting you wrote this. Before my mother married my stepfather, my mother, siblings and I were attending a Church of Christ, which was the church I was raised in. I was 13 when they started dating and one Sunday he had invited us to go to the Baptist church he attended.

 

The next Sunday, while everyone was milling around between Sunday school and worship service, the preacher of the COC stopped me and in front of everyone asked me where I was the previous Sunday. I told him we had gone to the Baptist church, thinking (in my naive mind) that as long as we were in some church, that it was okay.

 

He told me, again in front of everyone, that "our church" (the COC) was the only true church and that I should not ever go to the Baptist church again.

 

I was 13 years old, for crying out loud! I didn't drive myself there. I went where my mother told me to go.

 

It really embarrassed and humiliated me in front of everyone. It was nothing I had chosen to do. I despised that preacher after that. But, because we lived with my grandmother, she dictated where we went to church. It was after my mother remarried that we ended up at a Baptist church.

 

And, oddly, my stepfather ended up as a Methodist minister, but that was after I was grown and had moved away, thank goodness!

 

And yes, he bragged so many times how much money he was raking in after he became a preacher.

 

But, maybe he was the exception. He was always an abusive and conniving ass.

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[quote name='ilovemybrain' timestamp='1318123065' post='695

 

 

This was a big thing in the church I was in, too. They pushed "transparency" and "accountability" and I generally didn't have a problem with that - I figured "we're all human, everyone will understand when I struggle" - but NO I was judged heavily for every little thing, and I finally got sick of it. That wasn't what led to my deconversion but it definitely made me pull back out of ministry and bible study groups while I was questioning and examining xian doctrine and finding that it was bullshit. I decided I'm human and I fucking LOVE IT and I'm not giving up my humanity and individuality and giving up my joy in this one life, on the gamble that I'll be rewarded in some afterlife for being miserable here and now.

 

That's exactly it. It's every "little thing" we are judged on. It's about suppressing our basic human nature. And I don't mean that we should be allowed to NOT be accountable for our actions. There are laws for that, I and I think you, too, are talking about our inner thoughts. It's no one's damn business what I think, unless I decide to share it. But that's thing, they entice us to "share" then they use it against us.

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Eugene, to me all this probing into someone's business seems more like a sick version of voyeurism.

 

And the guy who has "mastered his lust", well, I would ask, "By who's authority?" I mean, how would you know? Because he says so? Nope, I ain't buying it.

 

I don't know, it just all seems like a way of humiliating someone, thereby making them feel vulnerable, thereby making them easier to manipulate.

I'm no prude, but my objection to porn isn't connected with what other people decide to do with their sexuality, it's just that you can't escape that sooner or later, most porn imagery involves the exploitation and/or subjugation of women or children somewhere along the line. Even willing participants probably have boundary issues that come from sexual abuse. I'm willing to bet that it's the rare edge case if a woman wants to allow random people to objectify her, yet she's doing it purely for the art or something.

 

As such the new business my son and I are starting, which does remote administration of other people's servers, will not accept as a client, anyone operating a porn site. They're free to do it, but I don't want any part of it.

 

It's a fine line when you take a stand against this sort of thing and I think where the church crosses the line is in trying to control things to the point of making reality something other than what it is. People have sexual fantasies. Some of them, if acted out, would be harmful, but if not acted out, are harmless. Others might be just plain impractical, or one of the many things that seem attractive in between your ears but don't work out that well in the Real World. Personally I wish people would stick with fantasies that they don't need help with (e.g., porn) and for the reasons stated above I have trouble feeling good about people relying on porn for any aspect of their sex lives. But I would never attempt to use shame, guilt or peer pressure to get them to change, because (1) it never works and (2) it's generally meddling in things which are none of my beeswax.

 

I have to agree with you, there's something voyeuristic about the church's obsession with whether its members use porn, but also, I think it's just the natural result of the church repressing sexual expression in general. Reaction to that repression manifests in far more unsavory things (e.g., porn) than in your 15 year old copping a feel or playing tonsil hockey with his girl friend. They need to be less uptight and threatened by human sexuality and then the porn thing will take care of itself. They could start (though of course they won't) by paying no more attention to masturbation and dropping all attempts at thought control. The concept of "pure thoughts" is nonsense. Thoughts are just thoughts. I keep telling people you can't keep birds from flying over your head, but you needn't let them build nests in it. Quit worrying about the birds, they are just part of nature.

 

I agree with you 100%. I am not advocating porn in any way at all. It's not just the church's obsession with whether or not someone views porn, but all of the other "sins" that we have committed (in their eyes) that they want details on.

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