Homeschooling

[RintrahRoars]

As an expat I find this distinctly U.S. paranoid attitude toward public schooling pretty interesting. I wonder why this kind of hostility doesn't exist much in other parts of the world?

[Roxie]

As an expat I find this distinctly U.S. paranoid attitude toward public schooling pretty interesting. I wonder why this kind of hostility doesn't exist much in other parts of the world?

 

I find this distincly US paranoid attitude toward homeschooling pretty interesting. I find that some teachers view homeschooling as an insult to their teaching. This is not necessarily true. As far as other parts of the world, is schooling compulsary?

 

My child attended public school until the third grade. He had wonderful teachers from pre-school until third grade. There are great teachers out there. I have several family members who are teachers. My decision to homeschool had to do with several things: my child's learning style, the local elementary school structure and yes, eventually his third grade teacher. Why can I not remove my child from school if I feel that his education is lacking? Why must I go with the flow of institutional learning if it is not in my child's best interest?

 

We, as adults have the choice of leaving a job, a home, a neighborhood or even a spouse if we decide while our children

have no rights. We can eat, use the bathroom, talk, sleep and even ask questions if we want. Our schooled children have no such rights. They spend each day in an institution that is comparable to a prison.

 

Ro-bear, you may be a wonderful teacher and you may actually teach, as opposed to babysit. You may encourage your students rather than humiliate them. You may actually take an interest in whether your students are failing and why. If you are, then you are what teachers should be and I congratulate you on that.

 

However, this is not the case with all teachers and learning intsitutions. I can't tell you how many teachers I had who hated every minute of teaching and took it out on their students.

 

Not speaking about Ro-bear, but I find the paranoia lies more in the teachers and the institutions. Fear of losing thier jobs and funding.

 

I am all for college. By the time a child is old enough to attend college, and if they have not been bullied, humiliated and skipped over during elementary through high school, they will be mature enough and have confidence to succeed in college.

 

This is part of the point of homeschooling. To give our children the time to grow and mature in an loving environment and prepare them for life as a whole, not just higher education.

 

Homeschooling is not for every child or every parent. These are the 3 questions I was always asked once people realized I was homeschooling:

 

1. What about the socialization?

What about it? My child was on basketball and baseball teams. My child was able to play with other kids on the weekends, as well. All this in addition to socializing with other people who were older, and younger than him. And what kind of socialization are they getting in school? Gange rape of a second grader by six graders in the school bathroom? Being attacked verbally and even physically because they are not wearing the coolest style? Yeah, I don't think people realize what a dangerous place school can be and are unconcerned about the things their children learn from other children.

 

2. What about college?

What makes you think my child cannot attend college? My child will be starting college in the spring.

 

3. How can you stand to have your child under foot all day? I cannot wait for my brats to go back to school and they someone else put up with them.

This is the problem with a lot of parents. They don't want to be bothered to educate their own children. And for these children, school is probably the best thing that can happen to them.

 

I wanted my child to be free of xtian influence. This was not possible in his elementary school.

 

There are probably many homeschooling parents that use homeschooling as an excuse not to get up early in the morning, just as there are many teachers that should never be near children. There is good and bad on either end of the spectrum. But I will defend any parent's right to do what's best for their child. The child that they gave birth to. The child that they know better than anyone else knows them.

 

Homeschooling worked for me and my child and maybe we are the exception.

 

I simply ask for respect for myself and other dedicated homeschoolers who have chosen this path.

 

There should be no paranoia. There will always be a need for institutionalized learning centers. There will always be a need for educators.

[pox]

Nice to see other like-minded non-schoolers. I wonder if we know anyone in common? Does "NBTSC" mean anything to anyone?

 

I don't think schools are broken; I think they do exactly what they're designed to do. And I don't blame teachers for that. The teachers I know are good-hearted and sincerely want the best for their students, but they're just as much trapped in a dysfunctional system as anyone. The system resists their best efforts to do more than what the system allows. Good on them for trying. Also, I'll grant that school is a good fit for some people, and a better place than home for some people, but for other people it's not.

 

I worked for a school district, where my wife was also a teacher, for about 6 years. Our son wasn't ready to read on the schedule schools would have expected - IOW, he learned to read significantly later than most kids. I know, from my previous job, exactly what would have happened to him. He would have been diagnosed with a "specific learning disability", IEP'd, special ed-ed, badgered and shamed to try to get him back on the schedule. We had the freedom not to do those things. We continued to read *to* him and *with* him, answered his questions when he asked, and tried (tried) not to let our own anxiety pressure him. At age 10 or 11, it was like a switch flipped. His brain was apparently ready and wired to read. By age 12, nobody would have known he'd started late. Nobody would ever know now. Better still, he enjoys reading, which he might not have if it had been a big stressful deal. We've heard many similar stories over the years.

 

The schooling model is based on a lot of really shaky assumptions. One of them in particular, that there's a best time for everyone to learn each thing, and that the government knows when that is, could have hurt us significantly. To me, that more than justifies, albeit after the fact, our choice to opt out.

[Roxie]

Nice to see other like-minded non-schoolers. I wonder if we know anyone in common? Does "NBTSC" mean anything to anyone?

 

I don't think schools are broken; I think they do exactly what they're designed to do. And I don't blame teachers for that. The teachers I know are good-hearted and sincerely want the best for their students, but they're just as much trapped in a dysfunctional system as anyone. The system resists their best efforts to do more than what the system allows. Good on them for trying. Also, I'll grant that school is a good fit for some people, and a better place than home for some people, but for other people it's not.

 

I worked for a school district, where my wife was also a teacher, for about 6 years. Our son wasn't ready to read on the schedule schools would have expected - IOW, he learned to read significantly later than most kids. I know, from my previous job, exactly what would have happened to him. He would have been diagnosed with a "specific learning disability", IEP'd, special ed-ed, badgered and shamed to try to get him back on the schedule. We had the freedom not to do those things. We continued to read *to* him and *with* him, answered his questions when he asked, and tried (tried) not to let our own anxiety pressure him. At age 10 or 11, it was like a switch flipped. His brain was apparently ready and wired to read. By age 12, nobody would have known he'd started late. Nobody would ever know now. Better still, he enjoys reading, which he might not have if it had been a big stressful deal. We've heard many similar stories over the years.

 

The schooling model is based on a lot of really shaky assumptions. One of them in particular, that there's a best time for everyone to learn each thing, and that the government knows when that is, could have hurt us significantly. To me, that more than justifies, albeit after the fact, our choice to opt out.

 

Never heard of NBTSC. Sorry. Is it like the HSLD (Home School Legal Defense)?

 

You know, maybe if I had never actually been inside a prison (my stepfather was a Warden and no, I was not imprisoned) I probably would have never been able to compare school to prison. They are both government controlled and that should a giant red flag.

 

I will have to find it, but I read that schools originally became compulsary to keep kids off the street, not such much to teach children. I will see if I can find the source and post.

[Roxie]

I am unable to find the quote as my book is in storage 1500 miles away, but you can find it in John Taylor Gatto's book, Dumbing Us Down. That little paperback was my bible.

[Serendipity Rose]

I always find it interesting that people that have never homeschooled and know of one, maybe two that did homeschool, or none at all and only "see" something they assume isn't learning as they know it to be a negative, have such "educated" comments to make about what they know nothing of.

 

Kids that go to school, public or private, sometimes do well, and sometimes do horribly. There are any number of reasons why either happens.

 

Kids that homeschool, christian or secular, sometimes do well, and sometimes do horribly. There are any number of reasons why either happens.

 

Life is complicated and we work with the cards we are dealt.

[Deva]

I am for home schooling for one reason - my own experience of being bullied. I would have given anything in the world at the time if I could have been pulled out of that horrible Jr. High School. It was a nightmare every day. I would get physically ill every morning. Even at age 54 I can remember many incidents vividly -- if I want to.

 

The teachers looked the other way. No one was there to help me.

 

No child should have to go through what I did. No one deserves this.

[RabbleRabble]

I worked for a school district, where my wife was also a teacher, for about 6 years. Our son wasn't ready to read on the schedule schools would have expected - IOW, he learned to read significantly later than most kids. I know, from my previous job, exactly what would have happened to him. He would have been diagnosed with a "specific learning disability", IEP'd, special ed-ed, badgered and shamed to try to get him back on the schedule. We had the freedom not to do those things. We continued to read *to* him and *with* him, answered his questions when he asked, and tried (tried) not to let our own anxiety pressure him. At age 10 or 11, it was like a switch flipped. His brain was apparently ready and wired to read. By age 12, nobody would have known he'd started late. Nobody would ever know now. Better still, he enjoys reading, which he might not have if it had been a big stressful deal. We've heard many similar stories over the years.

 

First, I'm really happy to hear about your child's progress. This seems to be a fairly common progression from what I've heard from other parents and teachers who have experience with similar issues. I wonder, did your son have problems only when it became time to learn reading or did you see a difference in his language abilities before that as well? I only ask because my son who has a similar "specific learning disability" had severe speech delays that began when children normally start forming sentences. He's 8 now and in the past couple of years the differences have evened out and most people won't be able to notice anything strange with his speech.

 

I really think one's experience with IEP's and special ed depends greatly on the school district. There are schools where special education is treated as nothing more than a glorified daycare and it fills me with disgust. We're lucky enough to be in a small but fairly progressive town and I feel that makes a difference for us. The special education people have been truly fantastic. They have involved and worked with me in every step along the way. It has been clear from the start that the ultimate goal for my child is to be phased out of special education entirely as he progresses. He made some huge leaps forward last year and will be spending much more time with the regular class this school year.

[SilentLoner]

Or socializing with the other THIRD GRADERS who were performing oral sex? Did you know that there was a county in Georgia in 1997 where third graders in a particular school had the highest rate of STDs than any other third grade class in the nation?

 

Come again?

[blackpudd1n]

Or socializing with the other THIRD GRADERS who were performing oral sex? Did you know that there was a county in Georgia in 1997 where third graders in a particular school had the highest rate of STDs than any other third grade class in the nation?

 

Come again?

 

Yeah, to me, if there was such a high rate among such young children for having STD's, I would be more inclined to think that there were some serious child sexual abuses going on in the area, rather than conclude that the little kids were getting jiggy with it.

[Roxie]

Or socializing with the other THIRD GRADERS who were performing oral sex? Did you know that there was a county in Georgia in 1997 where third graders in a particular school had the highest rate of STDs than any other third grade class in the nation?

 

Come again?

 

Yeah, to me, if there was such a high rate among such young children for having STD's, I would be more inclined to think that there were some serious child sexual abuses going on in the area, rather than conclude that the little kids were getting jiggy with it.

\

 

That's a strong possibility, too. Either way, I do not, and cannot imagine a parent that thinking it's okay to have their child in that type of "learning" environment. They are children, not adults who probably can deal with that kind of "education". It was third grade, for crying out loud!

[Ro-bear]

I sent my kid to mostly private schools. She graduated high school (a private school) with honors and has a full ride to the University of West Florida on a Pre-Med track. I would whole heartedly endorse private schooling or good home schooling. I resent the government trying to tell me what is best for my kid. I WILL DECIDE THAT....THE GOVERNMENT CAN GO GET FUCKED!

 

I fully support parental choice in education. If you choose to homeschool, the government schools should hook you up with textbooks and any other resources you need. If you choose private education and can afford it, go for it. Public schools are so everyone has a shot at a decent education. I can't afford to homeschool or to send my kids to a private school. And, fortunately, my children are thriving in the local public high school. They will have full rides to college, just like your daughter.

[SilentLoner]

Or socializing with the other THIRD GRADERS who were performing oral sex? Did you know that there was a county in Georgia in 1997 where third graders in a particular school had the highest rate of STDs than any other third grade class in the nation?

 

Come again?

 

Yeah, to me, if there was such a high rate among such young children for having STD's, I would be more inclined to think that there were some serious child sexual abuses going on in the area, rather than conclude that the little kids were getting jiggy with it.

\

 

That's a strong possibility, too. Either way, I do not, and cannot imagine a parent that thinking it's okay to have their child in that type of "learning" environment. They are children, not adults who probably can deal with that kind of "education". It was third grade, for crying out loud!

 

I was hoping you would provide a source.

[Roxie]

Or socializing with the other THIRD GRADERS who were performing oral sex? Did you know that there was a county in Georgia in 1997 where third graders in a particular school had the highest rate of STDs than any other third grade class in the nation?

 

Come again?

 

Yeah, to me, if there was such a high rate among such young children for having STD's, I would be more inclined to think that there were some serious child sexual abuses going on in the area, rather than conclude that the little kids were getting jiggy with it.

\

 

That's a strong possibility, too. Either way, I do not, and cannot imagine a parent that thinking it's okay to have their child in that type of "learning" environment. They are children, not adults who probably can deal with that kind of "education". It was third grade, for crying out loud!

 

I was hoping you would provide a source.

 

I look for a source. This was back around 1997.

[pox]

... I wonder, did your son have problems only when it became time to learn reading or did you see a difference in his language abilities before that as well? I only ask because my son who has a similar "specific learning disability" had severe speech delays that began when children normally start forming sentences. He's 8 now and in the past couple of years the differences have evened out and most people won't be able to notice anything strange with his speech.

 

I really think one's experience with IEP's and special ed depends greatly on the school district. There are schools where special education is treated as nothing more than a glorified daycare and it fills me with disgust. We're lucky enough to be in a small but fairly progressive town and I feel that makes a difference for us. The special education people have been truly fantastic. They have involved and worked with me in every step along the way. It has been clear from the start that the ultimate goal for my child is to be phased out of special education entirely as he progresses. He made some huge leaps forward last year and will be spending much more time with the regular class this school year.

 

We never noticed any other language difficulties. If we had, I'm sure we'd have considered other strategies. For the one thing we were dealing with, the late reading, we had a lot of example stories of people who just waited and let the kid's brain catch up, and that seemed like a good idea at the time. I'm glad your situation is working out. I wouldn't presume to know what works for every situation, and I'm glad he's getting the help he needs.

[RintrahRoars]

We, as adults have the choice of leaving a job, a home, a neighborhood or even a spouse if we decide while our children

have no rights. We can eat, use the bathroom, talk, sleep and even ask questions if we want. Our schooled children have no such rights. They spend each day in an institution that is comparable to a prison.

 

You think that children should have the right to not be educated? To stay home and play video games all day? This is just another bizarre U.S. attitude of bloated personal rights.

 

That said, the exact opposite applies to me as I was not given the option between public school and home school. If I could have chosen it would have been public school. Kids don't have the right to choose anyways because they are under the authoritarian control of their parents, even in modern democracies. Lol.

[Roxie]

We, as adults have the choice of leaving a job, a home, a neighborhood or even a spouse if we decide while our children

have no rights. We can eat, use the bathroom, talk, sleep and even ask questions if we want. Our schooled children have no such rights. They spend each day in an institution that is comparable to a prison.

 

You think that children should have the right to not be educated? To stay home and play video games all day? This is just another bizarre U.S. attitude of bloated personal rights.

 

That said, the exact opposite applies to me as I was not given the option between public school and home school. If I could have chosen it would have been public school. Kids don't have the right to choose anyways because they are under the authoritarian control of their parents, even in modern democracies. Lol.

 

No he did not stay home and play video games all day.

 

I think you are missing the point. Children do have the right to talk, ask questions and use the bathroom when they need to. Would it cause chaos in a learning institution? Of course. Hence the homechooling. My child was under my authoritative control. We had rules and regulations suited to our needs.

 

It was a personal choice. It worked for us. You are certainly free to disagree. You are certainly free to do with your children as you please. I was just offering up my experience. There may be people on this board who might be considering homeschooling. It worked for my child and me and I don't regret it.

 

It's intersting that people on this board are all for freedom of religion and freedom from religion.. We pick it apart every day on this board. And yet, I come here and offer my experience of an alternative to schooling and you'd think I was a xtian try to convert you. I am NOT trying to convert anyone to homeschooling. It was simply a choice I made.

[RabbleRabble]

It was a personal choice. It worked for us. You are certainly free to disagree. You are certainly free to do with your children as you please. I was just offering up my experience. There may be people on this board who might be considering homeschooling. It worked for my child and me and I don't regret it.

 

It's intersting that people on this board are all for freedom of religion and freedom from religion.. We pick it apart every day on this board. And yet, I come here and offer my experience of an alternative to schooling and you'd think I was a xtian try to convert you. I am NOT trying to convert anyone to homeschooling. It was simply a choice I made.

 

Look Roxie, I support your choice to homeschool. I respect parents who choose to homeschool and give their children a full (and secular) education in a non conventional way. I despise parents who use homeschooling as a means to isolate their children from outside views and impose full authoritarian control. Many others have said similar things.

 

If you feel like you are being attacked then I suggest you look to some of the wording and claims you've used in your posts as the reason.

 

And what kind of socialization are they getting in school? Gange rape of a second grader by six graders in the school bathroom? Being attacked verbally and even physically because they are not wearing the coolest style? Yeah, I don't think people realize what a dangerous place school can be and are unconcerned about the things their children learn from other children.

This is the problem with a lot of parents. They don't want to be bothered to educate their own children. And for these children, school is probably the best thing that can happen to them.

You know, maybe if I had never actually been inside a prison (my stepfather was a Warden and no, I was not imprisoned) I probably would have never been able to compare school to prison. They are both government controlled and that should a giant red flag.

Over-reaching, dubious, and insulting toward people who disagree with you.

[Roxie]

Sigh. My apologies for insulting anyone. I thought I was simply stating my case and defending my position.

[RabbleRabble]

Sigh. My apologies for insulting anyone. I thought I was simply stating my case and defending my position.

 

And mine if I came across as too harsh. Things get heated here! I think it can be difficult to put forth an opinion without coming across as attacking someone else. We're practicing here

[Mling]

Mling makes some good points, but overall I'm afraid her comment is an unsupportable caricature of public education. I became an educator in my late thirties, convinced that public education was a mess and it needed second career professionals like myself to altruistically ride to the rescue. It didn't take me long to see that most teachers do a great job and that the real problems are poor parenting and government interference that seems almost designed to undermine the institution. Fifteen years latyer, I am still fighting the good fight, but now I know who isn't the enemy at least.

 

I've been an educator, also. I was describing what I've seen in public schools, how I've been treated, and I've seen other teachers get treated and treat others. I've seen exactly one time when a teacher expressed how hurt she was by the way she was being treated, and I've known two who have had to throw down their books, walk out of the room and quit on the spot because of how they were being treated, not to mention the ones who did less radical things, like change careers, specifically because they couldn't stand the culture of public education.

 

Ultimately, the problem isn't that teachers aren't good--it's that no matter how good they are at what they do or how kind and good they are as people, the system of public education socialized kids in an unnatural and harmful way. Everybody involved could be the best people ever, but the overall structure would still be problematic.

 

As I said, in "the real world," what is considered as "success" is determined by each individual, and people are largely free to do what they want but are expected to be able to interact with a wide variety of people in a wide variety of situations. This is in stark contrast to formal education, in which people are expected to interact with only a narrow slice of humanity, under the constant auspices of a single other person, who both determines what constitutes success and how you ought to achieve it.

 

An adult who lived in such a way would be considered extraordinarily subservient, and yet we raise children, not to know how to meaningfully engage in such an hierarchy as is necessary, but to live in such a way full-time, and only to know how to be that sort of person--or else the sort of person who has had to forcefully reject such a role.

 

No matter how kind and good everybody involved in such a situation is, there is no way to interact with human beings in such a manner without it being harmful to them.