Antlerman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 To add an additional thought about ecstatic experience in Charismatic churches, and what my personal criticism of them are is not so much the experience of tongues, but the fact that is it ecstatic experience that has no grounding. It does not take an experience beyond the mundane and help ground it in anything on earth. It's all about seeking the next connection to God and feeling good, because frankly there is a fractured support structure there. At least that was my experience. I just have to look at how they respond to the world in their group-centric mentality to extrapolate the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I thought speaking in tongues was crazy even when I was a Christian. Waht?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT_8vVlG_VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 To add an additional thought about ecstatic experience in Charismatic churches, and what my personal criticism of them are is not so much the experience of tongues, but the fact that is it ecstatic experience that has no grounding. It does not take an experience beyond the mundane and help ground it in anything on earth. It's all about seeking the next connection to God and feeling good, because frankly there is a fractured support structure there. At least that was my experience. I just have to look at how they respond to the world in their group-centric mentality to extrapolate the rest. It's your experience? And that makes it correct? I thought I just read some post earlier by you where you argued for the support of subjective experience as valid evidence for someone's belief, but here it seems like you're criticizing some people's experience because it doesn't compare to yours? Am I missing something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Are you sure everyone speaking in tongues only do it for experience "hopping" or is it possible that they believe there is more to it than just that? How long is your experience and knowledge about speaking in tongues? How on earth are you getting this from what I'm saying, or even said 6 months ago here? I think I was clear in my original post that it has value. I don't believe that everyone who practices tongues is experience hopping, any more than I believe everyone who practices meditation is. What words are you actually reading that says this to you? Seems to me that you're putting down tongues and lifting up mediation. No? Perhaps you've changed your mind, I don't know, but I'm not sure if it's your place to criticize tongues as something less or "primal" even. No, not at all. In fact, in some of the deepest meditations, speaking in tongues may occur. I've actually had it happen to me twice in the last week and a half. So no, you don't understand what I think about these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Speaking in tongues had a calming affect on me when I believed. It's the belief that is important. Imagination is a powerful thing and worth embracing on the personal level. Using it for show to try to get money out of gullible followers is another story altogether, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What speaking in tongues is like, is chanting in mantras. It goes into the non-verbal side of the brain, opening it outside language structure. It's utterances that have no linguist structures and contents. So yes, absolutely, it has a calming effective as one benefit. It can help take you into deeper places as well, like mantras. The differences is they tend to be spontaneous utterances from the subconscious side of things, bringing about a given effect. I practice chant as well, which are just resonating tones, Om, Ah, Hum.... etc. In deep meditation where breathing rates are slowed, a single OM, may last over a minute at times. It's kind of on that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I went to a house church one time, after I had deconverted. It was a group of people who practiced glossolalia. We'd be sitting there in a group together. I was the only stranger among them. And the "leader" (who really was a control freak of the first magnitude) would say "Let us pray." Simultaneously they would all begin "speaking in tongues". It was definitely bazaar. But as with these types of things I sat with a small silent demeanor and with an inward smile that I would weather the storm of nonsense and come out the other side unscathed. You guys have never been around me in person. But I have this ability to "glow" almost at will. I let them have the glow for two or three times I went. Then I was asked to speak one night, and the thing is, I was expecting to be asked. So I had actually prepared a little something about my view of the trinity and the tree of life. (Not the tree of knowledge). You should have seen their reaction. They were stunned. They were sobered. They saw things anew. But it was too much. They did not know what to make of me. So I slipped off the porch that last night, never to be seen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Behold speaking in tongues.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2012 Behold speaking in tongues.... Loved it Legion!! Cracked me right up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have taught ESL to people from about 20 different countries. I can speak French, Thai and Chinese, write Korean and understand about 80% of Spanish, Italian and Lao. I've also studied a reasonable amount of Vietnamese and Khmer. If your language (sorry, tongue) doesn't include consistent nouns, verbs and adjectives, as well as a host of additional grammatical structures, then you are pretty much just making noises and wanking. And yes - wanking can sometimes bring inner peace and harmony and transcendent states of consciousness. But, unless you are consistent in structure and grammar, then in no way shape or form should any of this be considered a language (sorry, tongue). Personally I cringe at the use of the word 'tongue'. Sounds too antiquated and anachronistic and is almost never used by language students or people who are bi-lingual. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Behold speaking in tongues.... Loved it Legion!! Cracked me right up!! Makes me laugh every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I went to a house church one time, after I had deconverted. It was a group of people who practiced glossolalia. We'd be sitting there in a group together. I was the only stranger among them. And the "leader" (who really was a control freak of the first magnitude) would say "Let us pray." Simultaneously they would all begin "speaking in tongues". It was definitely bazaar. But as with these types of things I sat with a small silent demeanor and with an inward smile that I would weather the storm of nonsense and come out the other side unscathed. You guys have never been around me in person. But I have this ability to "glow" almost at will. I let them have the glow for two or three times I went. Then I was asked to speak one night, and the thing is, I was expecting to be asked. So I had actually prepared a little something about my view of the trinity and the tree of life. (Not the tree of knowledge). You should have seen their reaction. They were stunned. They were sobered. They saw things anew. But it was too much. They did not know what to make of me. So I slipped off the porch that last night, never to be seen again. So open a church! You have the gift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 No syntax, no God. Know syntax, know God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 No syntax, no God. Know syntax, know God. Ah! Nice, but not quite (in my opinion). Certainly I think syntax is a critical part of language. No syntax, no language. However, the mathematicians (math is language) have discovered that we cannot expunge semantics from language and have it remain a language. In the last analysis, language is about things outside of itself. And I think the word "God" is the pentultimate in semantics.. It is syntactically rather simple. It's a noun. Ah, but semantically.... How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I was just being cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I was just being cute. I'm glad you were. It provided me with yet another opportunity to pontificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 How on earth are you getting this from what I'm saying, or even said 6 months ago here? I think I was clear in my original post that it has value. I don't believe that everyone who practices tongues is experience hopping, any more than I believe everyone who practices meditation is. What words are you actually reading that says this to you? Sorry if I misunderstood. It did look like you're were saying that tongue-speaker were "wave jumpers, hopping from one peak experience to the next", and it does sound like a down-grading of the experience. So again, I'm sorry that I'm not quite understanding what you're saying. But it also seems like this topic is a bit touchy, so I'm leaving it and won't ask any more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 http://www.todayonline.com/World/EDC120210-0000045/Msian-teen-speaks-foreign-languages-after-accident M'sian teen speaks foreign languages after accident 04:46 AM Feb 10, 2012 KUALA LUMPUR - A teenager in Selangor has developed an overnight ability to speak in Mandarin, Japanese, Korean and Bahasa Indonesia following a road accident last month, the New Straits Times reported yesterday. no need god or holy spirit,,, need a road accident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowJacket Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvzLuxfQx3A&feature=related timestamp 4:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 http://www.todayonli...-after-accident M'sian teen speaks foreign languages after accident 04:46 AM Feb 10, 2012 KUALA LUMPUR - A teenager in Selangor has developed an overnight ability to speak in Mandarin, Japanese, Korean and Bahasa Indonesia following a road accident last month, the New Straits Times reported yesterday. no need god or holy spirit,,, need a road accident Wow. I almost want to get in an accident so I can do that... This gal can only speak in different languages until 6pm though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 How on earth are you getting this from what I'm saying, or even said 6 months ago here? I think I was clear in my original post that it has value. I don't believe that everyone who practices tongues is experience hopping, any more than I believe everyone who practices meditation is. What words are you actually reading that says this to you? Sorry if I misunderstood. It did look like you're were saying that tongue-speaker were "wave jumpers, hopping from one peak experience to the next", and it does sound like a down-grading of the experience. So again, I'm sorry that I'm not quite understanding what you're saying. But it also seems like this topic is a bit touchy, so I'm leaving it and won't ask any more questions. Actually I was hoping to add some insights I've gained to this now. I think it's important to recognize what really is going on, behind all the mythology the Charismatics wrap it in. It's actually quite valid. I'll grant in the past I viewed the whole Charismatic thing as 'primal', which in a lot of ways it is, but it becomes a reconnection with our subconscious minds from early times in our human evolution where we lived in a pre-verbal world. With the rise of all our language structures defining "reality" to us, we create a bit of a split from that non-verbal self. Meditation helps open that inner dialog, and the whole ecstatic tongues expression is a way itself to let that hidden or masked self have voice to the conscious mind. We experience something beyond mental constructs of reality. We experience our hidden self, which is always there speaking to us in ways we don't hear or often listen to, but it is there. Ecstasy becomes a sort of release of that. So my complaint again with the Charismatics is that with that opening, they fail to integrate it in a grounding, taking the subconscious and bringing it into the present conscious mind. They externalize the entire affair as something "not us". It's the Holy Ghost taking control of us like a puppet. The experience is valid, the teachings are poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 ... Thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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