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I Don't Fit In Anywhere Now...


Slash420
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Hey what's cracking y'all, it's my first post :)

 

Here's my sad situation

I've been out of the church for almost two years now and STILL can't find friends outside of church!!

:(

I used to have friends when I was in the church but since I stopped being a part of the church and became an agnostic, all my friends kinda faded away. I still talk to them but not much. A lot of people tell me "Oh, well just make some non-believing friends". I don't quite understand how I'm supposed to do that... am I supposed to just go into a bar and start talking to random people all of a sudden? Kinda comes across a bit creepy, I actually tried that.. Even then there is a problem. Me being raised in a VERY strict religious (hardcore russian Baptist) family, I still have some of the values that I've been taught. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I DON'T FIT IN ANYWHERE anymore!!! I feel like I'm stuck in some middle or something. The reason I want to have other friends that are non-believers is because I believe I have more in common with those types of people than the religious type. Also, I need to find a girlfriend... yup, I am serious. The way I've been brought up (mostly by my dad) is that it is not "wise" or whatever to have a girlfriend until you are ready to marry. Obviously I wasn't planning on getting married at the age of 15-18, so I didn't have any interest in mingling with girls. Well now that I'm 24 and starting to bald, I'm like FML!! It is just going to get harder and harder for me to find/meet a girl that is young, attractive, smart, AND a virgin. It literally is impossible. I know that a lot of you might say "Who cares if she's a virgin!" But like I said, some of the values that I've been taught are buried deep in my consciousness and I can't just step over them. To me it means that the person is responsible, and serious. I am a virgin and I think it would be fair to ask for a virgin in this case... or not? What about other friends that I could have right now? Here's some things that I think would be cool to do with friends that I could, should, would have... Go motorcycle riding on a Sunday afternoon, go grab a beer or two with a friend(s) some evening, go camping, play video games, smoke mj in a circle of friends NOT alone, picnic on a lake together or something... basically hang out and have a fun time while we are young!!

 

So I hope everyone doesn't think I'm a crazy f*ck but instead lends some advice or suggestions :D

Thanks in advance!

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I don't have much in the way of useful advice... probably nothing you haven't heard before. Lots of us are stuck in similar situations- myself included.

 

Personally I've made friends over the years mostly at work and at school. It isn't ideal, but it IS where I spend most of my time... so that's just what happens. I really don't care what peoples' religious preferences are so long as they aren't an ass about it- but I've found that there ARE other non-believers out there... even in the bible-belt.

 

I've seen that lots of people in our generation make friends by attaching themselves to some group or some cause. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not much of a 'joiner' that way. But if you feel strongly enough about a particular issue or political stance... lots of people do join a social circle that way.

 

As for insisting that a girl be a virgin... I can't really help you with that one. The older you get, the fewer of those there are around. But I'd be willing to bet that it'll become a non-issue real quick if you meet the right gal.

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Welcome, Slash!

 

Of the activities you mentioned, motorcycling seems the best bet. Everybody likes to show off and talk about his bike, and riding is a group activity - often organized. There are poker runs and day trips every weekend around here. Fellow bikers are easy to meet and talk to. I know all kinds of people who ride - lawyers, printers, office workers, etc. Lots of women have bikes too.

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Welcome Slash! Glad you found us. You have lots of friends here you can talk to as you slowly deconvert from all the brainwashing you have had all these years... We may not be able to join you at the park later, but we're always here to talk to. We'll try to support you each step of the way. Read a lot of the topics - there are tons of information that could help you - it's good stuff and it will help you in dealing with goin' out in that big, scary world......without the christian god.

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you my friend! Best wishes with this new journey........Sincerely, Margee

 

P.S. What about the gym?

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Hey Slash:

-Get into a club of some sort. Check your local newspaper. Ours prints a weekly directory or calendar of events that includes dozens of activities folks can get involved with.

-Volunteer for something. Check the local blood bank, cancer society, or your favorite political party or social cause.

-If philosophy is your bag, check on line to see if there is a free thinker's, atheists, agnostics, or similar group in your town.

-If you work, perhaps there is a professional organization you could check out. Toastmasters perhaps?

-If you're in school, there are scores of clubs on every campus. Or get involved in the campus media such as the radio station or newspaper. Sign up for guitar lessons, try out for the play or help with backstage. See if the marching band needs volunteer help when on the road.

-If you're not in school, sign up for a night class at the community college. Philosophy, perhaps?

 

The list is endless. But you have to get out there. As FDR once said, "Pick a method and try it. If it fails, try another. But above all, try something."

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Hey Slash420, welcome!

 

I can relate to the friends issue. When I was a Christian I had this backward twisted idea about how I had to screen potential friends. I would run somebody by my list of 1000 or so "spiritual" requirements for a friend and the upshot of it was that if they were not the spitting image of those who attended my church they would not become my friend. Oh I cannot put into words how that was a bad idea. So I have to accept that people are just as flawed as I am, just as flawed as Christianity is. Maybe that helps you or maybe not. A friend can be someone you just play handball with - or golf . . . or whatever. You don't ever need to get into a deep conversation about beliefs.

 

Don't worry about the hair. Some people will be shallow but you don't need to waste your time on them. There are plenty of people in this world who care about substance. Seek those people out and build relationships with them.

 

The other thing is you are going to have to get over that virgin thing. Yeah, I completely understand where you are coming from. I had the same branwashing drilled into my head when I grew up. It's like a phobia and you are going to have to get over it. There are other threads here that give good advise on sexual shame and repression. Virginity isn't everything Christian lies make it out to be. Focus on making yourself a better person and in time you will find someone interested in you. When you do you have the right to talk about you inexperience, the possibilities of STD and what type of birth control would work best for both of you. Just be tactful and sensitive about it. You know - respect. But please get over the virginity thing first. (And besides lots of of Christian "virgins" aren't. Rather they are forced to live a lie due to all the social and family pressure.)

 

You are in your 20's so you must have a lot of things going for you - even if you don't realize it. Be the person you want to be and have fun doing it.

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Hey what's cracking y'all, it's my first post smile.png

 

Here's my sad situation

I've been out of the church for almost two years now and STILL can't find friends outside of church!!

sad.png

I used to have friends when I was in the church but since I stopped being a part of the church and became an agnostic, all my friends kinda faded away. I still talk to them but not much. A lot of people tell me "Oh, well just make some non-believing friends". I don't quite understand how I'm supposed to do that... am I supposed to just go into a bar and start talking to random people all of a sudden? Kinda comes across a bit creepy, I actually tried that.. Even then there is a problem. Me being raised in a VERY strict religious (hardcore russian Baptist) family, I still have some of the values that I've been taught. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I DON'T FIT IN ANYWHERE anymore!!! I feel like I'm stuck in some middle or something. The reason I want to have other friends that are non-believers is because I believe I have more in common with those types of people than the religious type. Also, I need to find a girlfriend... yup, I am serious. The way I've been brought up (mostly by my dad) is that it is not "wise" or whatever to have a girlfriend until you are ready to marry. Obviously I wasn't planning on getting married at the age of 15-18, so I didn't have any interest in mingling with girls. Well now that I'm 24 and starting to bald, I'm like FML!! It is just going to get harder and harder for me to find/meet a girl that is young, attractive, smart, AND a virgin. It literally is impossible. I know that a lot of you might say "Who cares if she's a virgin!" But like I said, some of the values that I've been taught are buried deep in my consciousness and I can't just step over them. To me it means that the person is responsible, and serious. I am a virgin and I think it would be fair to ask for a virgin in this case... or not? What about other friends that I could have right now? Here's some things that I think would be cool to do with friends that I could, should, would have... Go motorcycle riding on a Sunday afternoon, go grab a beer or two with a friend(s) some evening, go camping, play video games, smoke mj in a circle of friends NOT alone, picnic on a lake together or something... basically hang out and have a fun time while we are young!!

 

So I hope everyone doesn't think I'm a crazy f*ck but instead lends some advice or suggestions biggrin.png

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

Well for one, you could potentially make a lot of new friends through a job that has you working with a bunch of other co-workers. You don't need to find non-religious friends, just make friends with anyone, usually when I meet new people beliefs are never discussed, if they turn out to be some fundie that likes to talk about god all the time, simply ignore them and move on to other people. I don't find the company of deeply religious people to my taste anymore because it creates too much conflict.

 

As far as chicks go, don't hold out for a virgin, create as much opportunity as you can, have as few limiting factors as you can, because if you're too strict on what you want you could miss out on what will really make you happy. You're gonna have to trash your old christian ways and get on with your life. Annnnd, you don't have to go to a bar, I mean you could, but I've never done that and I'm content with the girls that I've met thus far.

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A partner with a 'diverse' sexual history is going to be better in bed, period. You're really welcoming decades of average sex just you can be the one to break her hymen?

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Your preference for a virgin could be interpreted as a belief that a virgin is 'superior' in some way. What way? Well, it sort of gets back to 'property', certainty of paternity and 'women as property'.

 

I'm not saying that you consciously believe these things, but the religion of the goat herders came from the time when these beliefs were common.

 

Are you perhaps looking for someone who only seriously shares herself when deeply committed?

 

Think about this. You might find that the 'seriously committed' idea is more practical than the 'virgin'. Wishing you well in your moving on endeavors.

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A partner with a 'diverse' sexual history is going to be better in bed, period. You're really welcoming decades of average sex just you can be the one to break her hymen?

 

It is not because of the hymen. It is because I still think that if she's been with 20 other guys, she is not a serious person. After all sex is not a handshake, right? I might very well be mistaking in this whole idea so that's why I'm asking for advice and trying to be open minded as best as I can ;)

 

As far as other friends, you guys said that it's a good idea to join some club or activity. I agree with that method of meeting people and making friends, however, like I said earlier "I don't fit in". It's like I'm too shy, I can't think of anything to say, I'm kinda too quite. I don't know..... it's just been super depressing for me lately :( Anyone know how I can find a psychology/mental advisor or consultant?

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A partner with a 'diverse' sexual history is going to be better in bed, period. You're really welcoming decades of average sex just you can be the one to break her hymen?

 

It is not because of the hymen. It is because I still think that if she's been with 20 other guys, she is not a serious person. After all sex is not a handshake, right? I might very well be mistaking in this whole idea so that's why I'm asking for advice and trying to be open minded as best as I can ;)

 

As far as other friends, you guys said that it's a good idea to join some club or activity. I agree with that method of meeting people and making friends, however, like I said earlier "I don't fit in". It's like I'm too shy, I can't think of anything to say, I'm kinda too quite. I don't know..... it's just been super depressing for me lately :( Anyone know how I can find a psychology/mental advisor or consultant?

 

True enough, but it doesn't have to be 20 does it? You're treating 20 no different than one. I just have to agree with others here, find a nice girl and cross the bridge when you get there. Chances are it may not be as big a deal when you find the right girl as you think.

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Honestly, I'll second what Florduh said - motorcycling is a great way to meet people. It's not an overly interactive venue (let's face it, as long as you're riding you don't have to mingle) and motorcycles are an instant conversation piece, even if you have nothing else (at least on the surface) in common with the other people. I've made a number of friends, both guys and gals, simply because we love riding.

 

Find a local online forum where people post up group rides and go join some. In relatively short order you should be able to find a group you're comfortable riding with, they'll get to know you and vice versa, and you may just find that you eventually start to make some friends.

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Hmmm you have some work to do, I would say. Counseling might really help you get over your lingering weird leftover Christian fundy thinking and help instill some self-confidence. Self-sonfidence tends to attract people. Ya see what I mean? If you are out there with the "I'm a loser, I don't fit in anywhere" tape loop running in your mind, it surely comes across in your body language and in the the way you speak and act.

 

Move to a university town where there's lots of stuff to do for singles. Outdoor club or something. Volunteer, too, somewhere regularly so you start to see the same people every week. Get involved with a theatre production, do some acting.

 

Lose the patriarchal idea about a woman and virginity. Lose the black and white fundy thinking of either she's a virgin or she's been with 20 guys. At your age a woman who is still a virgin probably has issues. Issues you may want to avoid. Imagine you with your hangups getting together with a woman with similar hang ups, ha!! A virgin may be exactly what you don't need. Oh and get past seeing women as primarily valued for their 'purity' or whatever bullshit you are still believing left over from your indoctrination.

 

Good luck to you!

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this might sound silly, but try Meetup.com. these are people precisely looking to connect with others over an interest. it doesn't cost anything, type in your interests and find meetings in your area. I have joined PTCruisers, Atheists, Rationalists, and Skeptics. some crowds you click with, some you don't. I fit in w/ the Rationalists, but not the Skeptics (even tho I am a diehard Skep). It's just because of THOSE certain people and they way they run their meetup.

 

Go to a few meetups and don't return if you don't fit in.

 

looking for a virgin in a bar? hmm

 

golly I'll bet there are even 'sexual purity" meetups

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Slash.

 

Have you noticed how the replies have drifted from "ways to meet people" to "your beliefs/values." That's a natural progression.

 

 

What "fitted" you with your "divine group" will not "fit" you as well with the mundane.

 

Five sentences into your post and you strap on your "values" armor! Like a badge.

 

Like you say "I still have some of the values that I've been taught," that's not a problem, we all have values.

 

My question to you would be--"are those values yours?"

 

The process of "owning your values" is call differentiation--the psychological separation of intellect and emotion, and independence of self form others; the opposite of fusion. Fusion is a blurring of psychological boundaries between self and others, and a contamination of emotional and intellectual functioning; the opposite of differentiation.

 

Your post signals, at least to me, that you are at the threshold of "sorting through a treasure trove of values of--your family of origin (where it seems like dad has much influence)--extended family--religion (the righteous and the not so righteous)--culture etc.

 

Some of the "treasure" will become "your" trash. And only you can decide which to keep and which to discard. The trick for me is how to "honor" or at least tolerate that which I choose to discard. If I think about it, what is "trash" today was once upon a time my treasure, and is really a part of my history!

 

The values/beliefs of my family of origin (what my mom and dad taught and lived by-- believed) "worked" in that environment. But when I left that environment (was kicked out of the garden) those values sabotaged my goals, relationships, my satisfaction and happiness. Something had to change when I unfurled my own sails.

 

What was important for my family and became a "badge" of my membership, but did not work the same in the larger world. Those borrowed values/beliefs sent those on the "outside" running. I did not have to say a word. I would meet someone and before I knew it they would be gone or would exclude me. It seemed like my presence triggered neurons in another person's brain that sent them fleeing. It was as if I triggered within them an orienting reflex.

 

What was happening? I "exuded" how "f-up" I felt and they could not handle it. They sensed it in my posture, my shyness, my anxiety-- that I knew form first meeting that I was not like them (a virgin with little experience, a bumbling klutz).

 

All the while the same neurons firing in them were firing inside me--Fight-or-Flight. Unconsciously I was tell my self "If they ever find out how worthless or inexperienced I am they will dump me." I did not say that "verbally, " I exuded it physically. Women seem to sense faster. (What if she is not a virgin? Only serves to escalate the anxiety)

 

"Anxiety is a thin stream of fear trickling through the mind. If encouraged, it cuts a channel in which all other thoughts are drained."

~Arthur Somers Roche

 

Thoughts encourage for better or for worse.

 

A lot of what fitted me in my family and the church (and kept me safe but not satisfied) sabotaged my fitting in anywhere else!

 

And it was only when that "I got sick and tired of being sick and tired" that I reached out to some one that could help me get past the unrealistic values and beliefs of my shame based inner world that blocked what I desired--"just to love and be loved in return." I had to do a lot of unlearning and relearning!

 

Cognitive behavioral therapy worked well for me. It was only with another living human being that knew the way was I able to free myself from my living hell.

 

Find a mental health profession who can equip you with the tools you need in owning your own unique values and self.

 

Shame kept me in the "Garden of my fathers Eden." The sign posted in the center of his Eden read "Thou Shalt Not." It was a "set up" in one way and a warning in another. Really what it said for me was; "If you don't break the 'shalt nots' your trapped."

 

Have you ever played with matches? Have you ever lusted? Have you sinned? Have you partaken of the 'forbidden Fruit?' Has it ever occurred to you, "that daddy really doesn't know what is best for me, only I do, and doubted him?" --If you have, the "set up" worked well!

 

Don't pussy foot around with you life, life is too short, the stakes too high!

 

Cultivate your own Eden!

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Hey what's cracking y'all, it's my first post smile.png

 

Here's my sad situation

I've been out of the church for almost two years now and STILL can't find friends outside of church!!

sad.png

 

 

So I hope everyone doesn't think I'm a crazy f*ck but instead lends some advice or suggestions biggrin.png

Thanks in advance!

 

 

Sounds to me like you put restrictions on everything so you can continue to be lonely and unhappy. You want to meet girls but ONLY virgins. You want friends but are too shy to go find some. You have locked yourself into a comfort zone. Unlock yourself. Join a club, go to a meeting, be uncomfortable. There may be other people like you there. If you like motorcycles, go on a ride with a group. The MORE you put yourself out there, the more people you meet and friends you make.

 

As far as virgins go, virginity doesn't guarantee happiness. It isn't even a criteria for relationship. Virgin does not equal sweet, kind, loving, deep, passionate, thoughtful, wife material. It just means penis has not entered that vagina..yet. Or she 'claims' that anyway. It might also mean the person doesn't want sex (ever). Wouldnt that be fun to discover on your honeymoon night? :) What if you got married and later on she told you she wasn't really a virgin...ruh roh. I can understand you don't want someone who has screwed everybody but looking for a virgin at age 24 means a lot of lonely nights with Rosey Palm. Requiring virginity is a religious extreme and doesn't have a lot of logical validity going for it if you think about it.

 

But hey, when you fall in love, you will forget about these silly rules and regulations you have put on yourself.

 

Possible clubs to join in Virginia. Google for more.

Join the Sierra Club. http://www.mountaint...rcycleClubs.htm

http://vcu.collegiat...eogameclubofvcu

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when exactly do you ask the "virgin" question anyway? It really is none of your business til you're ready to have sex with said girl, and frankly I'm not sure it's your biznez even then.

 

I suppose if she has children you can assume she is not a virgin. Other than that, what goes on in her panties is none of your bees wax.

 

I can't imagine dating someone who would even ask me such a question. Of course, If she has an STD then it is her responsibility to inform you. But not before you are considering bumpin uglies.

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I still think that if she's been with 20 other guys, she is not a serious person. After all sex is not a handshake, right?

My first two wives were never intimate with anyone but me, but that was neither here nor there to me, really. My current partner has, by her own confession, been with more men in her day than she can count anymore. I don't really see that it makes any real difference in any aspect of our relationship. She's serially monogamous / faithful, and thinks open relationships are as bizarre as I do -- and that's enough for me.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that you're fixating on something that's really a stereotype and not actually useful for judging character or predicting relationship outcomes. Sexually experienced does not equal promiscuous or flaky or undiscerning. Not at all. My current woman is extraordinary and actually a considerable improvement in some respects for me. For example, I did not realize until I knew her what a difference it could have made to my role as a father if I had been married to women who actually were temperamentally suited to motherhood. Even though my kids are long since out of the nest, my relationship with them has improved because the woman in my life doesn't regard them subconsciously as rivals for my attention.

 

So let go of your requirement for virginity, you are really limiting yourself that way. My guess is you are probably overly idealistic in a dozen other ways, too. Try to concentrate on loosening up in general :-)

 

Best,

 

--Bob

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I can relate the experience, being from a fundamentalist Baptist Russian family. It's tough, having to deal with all of that moral baggage. By the sound of things, however, you may have gotten out of the church but the church hasn't gotten out of you. Make your moral values your own, don't let them be based on the skewed Slavic baptist ideal. You will be a miserable man if you stick to those.

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