Moderator Margee Posted October 23, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2011 Am I the only one that didn't know there were various 'levels' of hell - depending on what you have done in your life? Have any of you heard this before? All these years.....never knew this?? And according to this guy, it is because god is 'just'?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHFc7xsKPFk&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 It was often preached in the Baptist Church that hell was fire and eternal darkness for everyone, that is, that it is basically the same. You burn. However, there are passages in the Bible that suggest different levels such as the one this guy was reading and there is another one somewhere about "being beaten with many stripes and some with fewer" or something like that. Anyway, anyone who has read Dante's Inferno KNOWS there are different levels (sarcasm). None of this hell after death thing bothers me anymore. I don't believe hell exists outside the human mind. Human beings are extremely good at constructing our own hells to live in right here and now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Well, as Deva's sarcasm suggests, this sort of hell belief could have come from an overzealous reading of Dante. As for various punishments in hell you mention, it could be that variety is something God takes pleasure in. All kinds of depraved punishments in one place. What's not to like for a sadist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 The "justice" of the Revelation. We should look at Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, taking their places before the high seat; and the books were open, and another book was open, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by the things which were in the books, even by their works. This is the verse that he focuses on. The one he says "You need to know this." Everyone is judged by this "book of life." It says so. But let's keep going... 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and Hell gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man by his works. Well now the people in the sea get spit up so I guess not everyone got judged in the first round. Then "death and hell [Hades]" spit up dead as well. Lots and lots of dead aren't in verse 12. These also get judged by their works. Keep in mind that "hell" here, as I pointed out, is Hades. And that is the underworld. This is where all the dead go. Why not the people in the sea? The ancients weren't sure they could find there way because of those murky depths so dying at sea was a horrible tragedy. Anyhow, this is why you'd see the sea giving up the dead separate. The author likely didn't see it as the domain of the third god but it might be in the back of their mind reflecting the cultural division of things (in general Pluto/Hades got the underworld, Neptune/Poseidon got the seas and Jupiter/Zeus the rest). 14 And death and Hell were put into the sea of fire. This is the second death, even the sea of fire. Anyhow, the place usually translated as "hell" [Hades] is tossed into the "sea of fire" and this is *after* it is emptied out. This is the "second death." Being put into the sea of fire. Not being put into "hell" which is in the sea of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not in the book of life, he went down into the sea of fire. This proves what I just stated. The sea of fire is the "second death" not the "hell" with the sea of fire. The "hell" has been sent to the "second death" itself and it was done so because it is a part of the human death experience. It is where people go when they die. This is why it is paired with "death" (ie. death and hades) because this is supposedly now all done away with at this point in time. Humans no longer die. So why have the "angel of death" (so to speak..."Thanatos" wasn't technically an "angel of death" but we might see him fulfill that role) or the place to put their "souls" (Hades)? Those things can now be killed off in the sea of fire. The point of this final verse, however, is the sea of fire is a one size fits all punishment. If anyone at this judgment, and only this judgment, is not in the "book of life" then they are put into the sea of fire. There is only one location mentioned in Revelation. It also shows that works don't matter. You are either in the book or you're not. The verses that are before this mention works but you could be the worst person or the best person and still wind up in the sea of fire all the same. Very quickly we'll just look at: 13:8 And all who are on the earth will give him worship, everyone whose name has not been from the first in the book of life of the Lamb who was put to death. So we can see that names appear to be predestined into the "book of life" so what you do makes no difference. You're there or you're not. It's not up to you. Sp back to the next verse: 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were gone; and there was no more sea. This mentions the new (which is not brand spanking new unfortunately but doesn't get reflected in the translation) heaven and earth. It also hints at no water which doesn't make too much sense. It makes more sense, to me, if the sea of fire were to now be gone. Judgment is over and so that sea is no longer needed therefore the "and there was no more sea" as opposed to "there is no water on this new planet." The sea of fire appears to be intended for the three baddies from the last chapter (20): 10 And the Evil One who put them in error was sent down into the sea of ever-burning fire, where the beast and the false prophet are, and their punishment will go on day and night for ever and ever. But then its role got expanded to include everyone not worthy of the new kingdom: 21:8 But those who are full of fear and without faith, the unclean and takers of life, those who do the sins of the flesh, and those who make use of evil powers or who give worship to images, and all those who are false, will have their part in the sea of ever-burning fire which is the second death. The problem is the rest of the story includes hints that death wasn't put to an end and neither was "bad" behavior. 22:1 And I saw a river of water of life, clear as glass, coming out of the high seat of God and of the Lamb, 2 In the middle of its street. And on this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, having twelve sorts of fruits, giving its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree give life to the nations. What happens if you do not partake of the "water of life" and/or anything of the "tree of life"? Death and Hades are done away with. You cannot die. But these seem to be required to live. This is one of those things that make me see alterations. Again, later in the same chapter: 14 A blessing on those whose robes are washed, so that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may go in by the doors into the town. 15 Outside are the dogs, and those who make use of evil powers, those who make themselves unclean, and the takers of life, and those who give worship to images, and everyone whose delight is in what is false. Some have the right to go partake of the "tree of life" indicating others do not have this ability. These are "the dogs" and a laundry list of people who simply should not exist in this "new world" but here they are. Even people that worship false gods and use magic. There will be no second judgment so these people are stuck here. What did all this "Judgment Day" crap solve? Nothing according to the bible. mwc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaToOmega Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 The Dante's Inferno Test has banished you to the Second Level of Hell! Here is how you matched up against all the levels: Level | Score Purgatory | Very Low Level 1 - Limbo | High Level 2 | Very High Level 3 | Low Level 4 | Very Low Level 5 | Moderate Level 6 - The City of Dis | Very High Level 7 | High Level 8- the Malebolge | High Level 9 - Cocytus | High Level descriptions: http://www.4degreez....nformation.html Take the test: http://www.4degreez....inferno-test.mv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholiKitty Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 This man is crazy; the line he read didn't imply levels at all. That verse just sounded like a standard heaven/hell division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 This man is crazy; the line he read didn't imply levels at all. That verse just sounded like a standard heaven/hell division. Yes, he must be crazy or else he knows the nonsense he his preaching is crazy. He outright contradicted himself. He claimed the "The punishment always fits the crime." He then repeated that for emphasis. Then a few seconds later he contradicts it by claiming that hell is eternal. An infinite punishment cannot fit a finite crime. This is simply impossible. For added stupidity he asks people to consider the "fact" of something that he cannot verify with objective evidence. Perhaps his beliefs have altered his understanding for the meaning of the word "fact". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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